School Voucher Debate Thread (3 Viewers)

[AmericanSpartan]

So what are the augments against them?

 

[Linc]

Why pose a negative question?
What are the arguments for them ?

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Why pose a negative question?
What are the arguments for them ?

They allow parents to have control over their children`s education

They create markets and competition where government run education is a failure.

 

[SocialDemocrat]

School vouchers drain both money and active families that school districts need from existing schools and allow public schools to continue to suffer. If there's a problem with public education (and there are many problems with public education), you should focus on fixing those problems, not allowing the system to further suffer.

Moreover, all private schools should be prohibited as well, because most of the time, they are either allowing the rich to segregate themselves from everyone else and buy themselves a better education and/or indoctrinating children with religious teachings.

 

[Paleocon]

So what are the augments against them?

I think SocialDemocrat pretty much sums it up. Vouchers would allow children to go to private schools, which might not properly indoctrinate them in our official state ideology.

To be clear, I think this an argument for vouchers, although leftist would take it the other way.

 

[SocialDemocrat]

I think SocialDemocrat pretty much sums it up. Vouchers would allow children to go to private schools, which might not properly indoctrinate them in our official state ideology.

To be clear, I think this an argument for vouchers, although leftist would take it the other way.

Because that's totally what I said... :roll:

 

[Henrin]

School vouchers drain both money and active families that school districts need from existing schools and allow public schools to continue to suffer. If there's a problem with public education (and there are many problems with public education), you should focus on fixing those problems, not allowing the system to further suffer.

Moreover, all private schools should be prohibited as well, because most of the time, they are either allowing the rich to segregate themselves from everyone else and buy themselves a better education and/or indoctrinating children with religious teachings.

Are you also against home schooling? After all, it allows parents to segregate their kids from everyone else and those kids could be getting indoctrinated. Hell man, there might be even religious teachings going on.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

I think SocialDemocrat pretty much sums it up. Vouchers would allow children to go to private schools, which might not properly indoctrinate them in our official state ideology.

To be clear, I think this an argument for vouchers, although leftist would take it the other way.

I guess they are afraid they can not compete...I wonder why.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

School vouchers drain both money and active families that school districts need from existing schools and allow public schools to continue to suffer. If there's a problem with public education (and there are many problems with public education), you should focus on fixing those problems, not allowing the system to further suffer.

Moreover, all private schools should be prohibited as well, because most of the time, they are either allowing the rich to segregate themselves from everyone else and buy themselves a better education and/or indoctrinating children with religious teachings.

Not buying it. how can they drain money? How would you know the amount of funds from students that would not be attending?

We have tried to fix them, it never works, more money is throw at it.

We are done fixing a terminal system.

I guess that means learning things you do not approve of..

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Are you also against home schooling? After all, it allows parents to segregate their kids from everyone else and those kids could be getting indoctrinated. Hell man, there might be even religious teachings going on.

They do not like people doing, having, saying, learning, or being apart from their control...

On the upside we are winning the debate and support day by day.

 

[Linc]

Are you aware that home-schooled kids are allowed to participate in public school extra-curricular activities?
Think those coaches and band directors may be indoctrinating them also ?

Are you also against home schooling? After all, it allows parents to segregate their kids from everyone else and those kids could be getting indoctrinated. Hell man, there might be even religious teachings going on.

 

[Linc]

Control?
As long as it's by a GOP state legislature and governor, right ?

They do not like people doing, having, saying, learning, or being apart from their control...

On the upside we are winning the debate and support day by day.

 

[Linc]

So you would prefer parents teach their kids Chemistry and Physics rather than someone like me, with real majors and masters degrees in subject material.
These are the parents who whine and complain the most when classroom standards are strict and rigorous .

They allow parents to have control over their children`s education

They create markets and competition where government run education is a failure.

 

[Henrin]

So you would prefer parents teach their kids Chemistry and Physics rather than someone like me, with real majors and masters degrees in subject material.
These are the parents who whine and complain the most when classroom standards are strict and rigorous .

There is this thing called tutors that teach your children subjects you're weak in.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Control?
As long as it's by a GOP state legislature and governor, right ?

No, if they are Neo Con statist I oppose them as well,

Shut up, issue vouchers, and lets parents decide where they send their schools and if the teacher unions do not like, tough.

 

[SocialDemocrat]

Not buying it. how can they drain money? How would you know the amount of funds from students that would not be attending?

We have tried to fix them, it never works, more money is throw at it.

We are done fixing a terminal system.

I guess that means learning things you do not approve of..

1. School vouchers are government funded, and therefore take up resources that would be better allocated to public schools. The tidbit about active families refers to the fact that families would opt to enroll in a charter school tend to be more active in school life, and therefore the public school is deprived of their contributions.

2. Many solutions haven't been attempted. Just because reforms that have been attempted don't work doesn't mean all possible reforms are failures. Many changes could be made to our school system (replacing Common Core and NCLB with a more decentralized curriculum that gives more power to the teachers, abolition of standardized tests, and a more secure form of public education funding, to name a few) that would affect it positively.

3. You'd have an argument if public schools taught a certain religion. Religion does not belong in the education system. If a student wants to learn about a certain religion, let them do it in an after school club or outside of school. Don't force children to be taught a certain religion as if it is fact just because their parents want them to believe that.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

So you would prefer parents teach their kids Chemistry and Physics rather than someone like me, with real majors and masters degrees in subject material.
These are the parents who whine and complain the most when classroom standards are strict and rigorous .

Yes, high standards for all, those that need help get help, those who are advanced get to run wild with their gift.


We have a few idea we are putting together.

 

[Linc]

There is this thing called tutors that teach your children subjects you're weak in.

Aren't you afraid the tutors will indoctrinate the child ?

 

[Linc]

How do they get help?
Who would we be with these ideas ?

Yes, high standards for all, those that need help get help, those who are advanced get to run wild with their gift.


We have a few idea we are putting together.

 

[Linc]

So now your vengeance against teacher unions comes out .

No, if they are Neo Con statist I oppose them as well,

Shut up, issue vouchers, and lets parents decide where they send their schools and if the teacher unions do not like, tough.

And who needs to shut up, AmericanSpartan--you're on a roll tonight .

 

[AmericanSpartan]

1. School vouchers are government funded, and therefore take up resources that would be better allocated to public schools. The tidbit about active families refers to the fact that families would opt to enroll in a charter school tend to be more active in school life, and therefore the public school is deprived of their contributions.

If they are better allocated to public schools then why are the results so abysmal?

Same amount of funds, two difference sets of standards and method of operations, two different sets of results with private producing vastly different and better results a majority of the time.

Why should the public schools not be forced to attract them for their contribution?

2. Many solutions haven't been attempted. Just because reforms that have been attempted don't work doesn't mean all possible reforms are failures. Many changes could be made to our school system (replacing Common Core and NCLB with a more decentralized curriculum that gives more power to the teachers, abolition of standardized tests, and a more secure form of public education funding, to name a few) that would affect it positively.

You are right, they are not and have not been, why because of the Unions looking out for their interests.

Still why not allow parents to decide? Could it be they could not really compete?

3. You'd have an argument if public schools taught a certain religion. Religion does not belong in the education system. If a student wants to learn about a certain religion, let them do it in an after school club or outside of school. Don't force children to be taught a certain religion as if it is fact just because their parents want them to believe that.

If that religion taught that is a good thing to murder people other faiths, who would not?

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Aren't you afraid the tutors will indoctrinate the child ?

You do know you can fire and hire another one, right?

Can you do that with a public school.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

So now your vengeance against teacher unions comes out .



And who needs to shut up, AmericanSpartan--you're on a roll tonight .

When people force kids into failed schools to protect their income stream, I have a problem, and if you do not I think that says more about you then I ever could...

I need to shut up?

 

[AmericanSpartan]

How do they get help?
Who would we be with these ideas ?

Well mostly online tutorial videos with class aids being the last resort.

Just a few friends, why do you ask?

 

[SocialDemocrat]

If they are better allocated to public schools then why are the results so abysmal?

Same amount of funds, two difference sets of standards and method of operations, two different sets of results with private producing vastly different and better results a majority of the time.

Why should the public schools not be forced to attract them for their contribution?



You are right, they are not and have not been, why because of the Unions looking out for their interests.

Still why not allow parents to decide? Could it be they could not really compete?





If that religion taught that is a good thing to murder people other faiths, who would not?

1. I'm aware of the shortcomings of American public schools, but these shortcomings are not because of the fact that we are talking about public schools. Looking at other public education systems, such as the Finnish education system, they are evidence of the potential of public education systems. Correlation=/=causation.

2. Not sure what you mean, because most teacher unions either support or would at least not be vehemently opposed to what I listed.

2.5. The "give parent's control over their children's education" argument is pretty bizarre, especially considering that firstly, parents have the ability to teach their children whatever they want outside of school (they are the ones raising them after all), and secondly, it's the child's education, not the parent's, and children should be able to think independently from their parents.

3. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.