School uniforms

[George_Washington]

I think I have a compromise for this issue, one that can make both parties happy. See if you guys can follow me on this. I say let's have uniforms...but, let's contract with fashion designers to make them. I think it would not only satisfy both parties but it would also teach children to appreciate nice clothes, fashion, and the arts.

 

[LeftyHenry]

I think I have a compromise for this issue, one that can make both parties happy. See if you guys can follow me on this. I say let's have uniforms...but, let's contract with fashion designers to make them. I think it would not only satisfy both parties but it would also teach children to appreciate nice clothes, fashion, and the arts.

It'd be too expensive. To satisfy both parties, I think half the schools in a district will have uniforms while the others won't. Or every other district has uniforms if the town. Something that equally balances uniformity and anti-uniformity so that families that want uniforms have that option while families that don't have that option as well.

 

[Australianlibertarian]

THis may sound weird coming from a Libertarian like myself, but I don't think that uniforms are that bad an idea.

I went to primary and secondary school at a State school. Hear in Australia most state schools have uniforms.

I agree with, many of the posts that having a uniform makes it harder for students to be judged by cliques, or by socio-economic status. Conformity of clothes also seems to generate some sort of esprit de corp.

 

[jamesrage]

What is your position on Public school systems requiring uniforms to attend?

As long brands of clothing are defined in that uniform as wel type of clothing in that school uniform.We live in a society that thinks social status is spending hundreds of dollars for the something instead of buying a similar product and the same quality for twenty dollars.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

I have only seen one situation in which school uniforms were actually effective in accomplishing their set goal: at a school in San Jose, CA, where they had very serious gang problems, the admin put in a monochrome dress code; the students could wear what they liked, but it had to be black, white, or gray. No other color was allowed, period. What this did was to allow the teachers, security, administration, etc., know immediately when someone came on campus who was not a student. Since this happened with great regularity, and the "invaders" always came on campus to sell drugs and/or commit violent acts against rival gang members, the dress code worked.

Otherwise: school uniforms are, IMHO, worthless. They will not end distraction; teenaged boys can be distracted by anything with a breast within 100 yards. It matters little what the breast is clothed in. They will not end socioeconomic distinctions; students will judge by the jewelry, hair, shoes, accessories, and, most common, the car, the same as they do now. Very few students have a good grasp of the cost of clothing, but everyone knows who the "preppies" are. As has been said, on this thread and elsewhere, the goths, punks, skinheads, what have you, will find a way to represent their cliques without violating the dress code. You cannot force a student to have fellow feeling for his classmates, in my experience; if the school does good things for the kid, the kid likes the school. The clothes he wears make no difference.

That being the case, a uniform or dress code just sends this message: you are a part of the machine, and you always will be. Give up now. And that is not a message I want to send, not even if it would make my classes disciplined.

By the way, the humor in "Dem ninjaz wearin da pantz" is in the ability to turn any phrase into "gangsta" speak. The key is to turn "th" into "d," to use "z" to pluralize any noun, and to use liberal sprinklings of phonetic spelling and the nonsense syllables "izzle" or "eazy" to replace any particularly powerful, or vulgar, words. All of this is obsolete in modern slang, but that's why it's funny, especially coming from someone as uncool as myself. Has you bizzlez got dat sheazy? Werd up, G Unit! Dat's how we ROLL!

 

[Engimo]

The problem with requiring school uniforms is that, unless the clothing of a student will interfere with the education of other students/operation of the school, it is unconstitutional to do so.

"In Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School (1969), the court said that a student's freedom of expression in school must be protected unless it would seriously interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline."

In the case of the school with the massive gang problem as mentioned above, the requirement of school uniforms was for the safety of the students, and was probably a good idea. As a general rule, though, school uniforms are an unfair restriction of students' 1st Amendment rights.

 

[George_Washington]

As a general rule, though, school uniforms are an unfair restriction of students' 1st Amendment rights.

lol Are you sure? The idea of uniforms violating a student's first amendment rights sounds ridiculous to me. That sounds like somebody saying that forcing a worker to dress a certain way in a company is violating the worker's, "freedom of expression." Which also sounds ridiculous to me. What's wrong with enforcing discipline and good behavior to our young people? Most private, prepatory schools have dress codes and it seems to work just fine.

I guess I just don't understand this liberal world that is being forced on us by the radical left. I guess I am old fashioned in that I believe in things like discipline, etiquette, and nice appearance.

 

[Engimo]

lol Are you sure? The idea of uniforms violating a student's first amendment rights sounds ridiculous to me. That sounds like somebody saying that forcing a worker to dress a certain way in a company is violating the worker's, "freedom of expression." Which also sounds ridiculous to me. What's wrong with enforcing discipline and good behavior to our young people? Most private, prepatory schools have dress codes and it seems to work just fine.

Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them. Corporations can mandate that their workers wear any manner of thing, because they are not bound by the 1st Amendment. Notice how the 1st Amendment refers to how "congress" will not pass any laws restricting freedom of speech? What is wrong with it is that it is a violation of the students' right to free speech, as the supreme court has decided.

I guess I just don't understand this liberal world that is being forced on us by the radical left. I guess I am old fashioned in that I believe in things like discipline, etiquette, and nice appearance.

Yes, this damned liberal world with free speech and individuality!

 

[George_Washington]

Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them. Corporations can mandate that their workers wear any manner of thing, because they are not bound by the 1st Amendment. Notice how the 1st Amendment refers to how "congress" will not pass any laws restricting freedom of speech? What is wrong with it is that it is a violation of the students' right to free speech, as the supreme court has decided.

Well yeah, I know that public schools are governmental institutions. But I just don't see how making uniform restrictions would violate the first amendment. I think it anything it would only help to improve our public school systems, of which many are failing.

Yes, this damned liberal world with free speech and individuality!

Yeah, let's let school systems in England and China get way ahead of us and produce disciplined, intelligent students while we continue to produce dumb students all for the sake of free speech and individuality. Hell, other countries are already laughing at us enough, let's give them even more reason to.

 

[Engimo]

Well yeah, I know that public schools are governmental institutions. But I just don't see how making uniform restrictions would violate the first amendment. I think it anything it would only help to improve our public school systems, of which many are failing.

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States begs to differ. They consider what you wear as a part of your constitutionally protected speech. As long as that is not interfering with the education of other students, students have the right to wear whatever they please.

Yeah, let's let school systems in England and China get way ahead of us and produce disciplined, intelligent students while we continue to produce dumb students all for the sake of free speech and individuality. Hell, other countries are already laughing at us enough, let's give them even more reason to.

How does wearing a uniform make the students more intelligent? If you can show a statistical correlation, I'd be mighty impressed. Even if that were true (which is nonsense), I'm not one to sacrifice liberty for pragmatic results.

 

[George_Washington]

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States begs to differ. They consider what you wear as a part of your constitutionally protected speech. As long as that is not interfering with the education of other students, students have the right to wear whatever they please.

I don't care what the Supreme Court says, it doesn't mean they're right.

How does wearing a uniform make the students more intelligent? If you can show a statistical correlation, I'd be mighty impressed. Even if that were true (which is nonsense), I'm not one to sacrifice liberty for pragmatic results.

Uniforms in themselves don't correlate with high test scores but they are an aspect of discipline and discipline is what is needed in this country. So many European and Asian school systems are far more disciplined than ours are. You don't hear nearly as much about gang violence over there because they wouldn't tolerate it like we do. We certainly need to do something to help our youth and I think that required uniforms would be what they need. But keep in mind, I would be open minded towards allowing them to choose between several uniform combinations or whatever, if they feel the need to express themselves artistically.

 

[Engimo]

I don't care what the Supreme Court says, it doesn't mean they're right.

Sorry, I'm going to have to take the opinions of 9 lawyers with years of judicial experience and law degrees over your B.A. in Communications. Something tells me that the Supreme Court might know a little bit more about constitutional law than you?

Uniforms in themselves don't correlate with high test scores but they are an aspect of discipline and discipline is what is needed in this country. So many European and Asian school systems are far more disciplined than ours are. You don't hear nearly as much about gang violence over there because they wouldn't tolerate it like we do. We certainly need to do something to help our youth and I think that required uniforms would be what they need. But keep in mind, I would be open minded towards allowing them to choose between several uniform combinations or whatever, if they feel the need to express themselves artistically.

Unsubstantiated slosh. Let's see some statistics with correlations, this is just your conjectutre about "discipline" that we need in schools.

 

[George_Washington]

Sorry, I'm going to have to take the opinions of 9 lawyers with years of judicial experience and law degrees over your B.A. in Communications. Something tells me that the Supreme Court might know a little bit more about constitutional law than you?

:rofl

You're kidding, right? Have you actually looked at some things the Supreme Court has ruled on over the years? I remember there was a case back in the 80's when they upheld a sexual harrassment suit against a company that was completely absurd. A lot of people argue that the courts in this country are one of the major things that need to be improved. There are moron judges out there, you hear about stupid decisions all the time. They're fallable just like anyone else. They all have their political biases. If someone appointed Pat Robertson to the Supreme Court and he made it illegal to be an atheist, would you say that he must know what he's talking about just because he's on the Supreme Court? I mean hell, there are some sitting up there right now that would probably ban abortion if given the opprotunity. I'm sure you wouldn't support that. The original intent of the first amendment wasn't exactly like we think of it today. I suspect the founding fathers would roll over laughing if they heard that our precious Supreme Court had applied it to school uniforms, considering how much more discipline they had in their society back then compared to how much we have today.

Unsubstantiated slosh. Let's see some statistics with correlations, this is just your conjectutre about "discipline" that we need in schools.

Unsubstantiated slosh? Forget it, man. If you want to have the kind of attitude than I refuse to further debate this issue with you. I've tried to come up with a solution that would make both parties happy but you act as if I'm close minded. I guess you have your mind made up, so.

 

[Engimo]

:rofl
You're kidding, right? Have you actually looked at some things the Supreme Court has ruled on over the years? I remember there was a case back in the 80's when they upheld a sexual harrassment suit against a company that was completely absurd. A lot of people argue that the courts in this country are one of the major things that need to be improved. There are moron judges out there, you hear about stupid decisions all the time. They're fallable just like anyone else. They all have their political biases. If someone appointed Pat Robertson to the Supreme Court and he made it illegal to be an atheist, would you say that he must know what he's talking about just because he's on the Supreme Court? I mean hell, there are some sitting up there right now that would probably ban abortion if given the opprotunity. I'm sure you wouldn't support that. The original intent of the first amendment wasn't exactly like we think of it today. I suspect the founding fathers would roll over laughing if they heard that our precious Supreme Court had applied it to school uniforms, considering how much more discipline they had in their society back then compared to how much we have today.

No, I'm not kidding. Sure, the Supreme Court does silly stuff at times, but I'm much more apt to take their interpretation of the 1st Amendment over your entirely unqualified one.

Unsubstantiated slosh? Forget it, man. If you want to have the kind of attitude than I refuse to further debate this issue with you. I've tried to come up with a solution that would make both parties happy but you act as if I'm close minded. I guess you have your mind made up, so.

Yes, I have an attitude of dismissing claims that are entirely unfounded. If you want to show a solid, factual correlation between "discipline", school uniforms, and intellectual ability, go right ahead, I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong - you're simply not doing that. My mind is not made up, you're just not showing any evidence besides your conjecture.

 

[jamesrage]

Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them. Corporations can mandate that their workers wear any manner of thing, because they are not bound by the 1st Amendment. Notice how the 1st Amendment refers to how "congress" will not pass any laws restricting freedom of speech? What is wrong with it is that it is a violation of the students' right to free speech, as the supreme court has decided.



Yes, this damned liberal world with free speech and individuality!

You are aware that the military is a "governmental institution"?
I clearly remember being told that when I showed up to formation that I had to dress a certian way and have my hair cut a certian way and had to be clean shaven.Even off duty I could wear what ever I want but it had to be with in certian standards for example I could not wear a baseball sideways,pants sagging below the ass crack,shirt partially tucked in and a ridiculously long silver chain that came down to waist.

 

[Engimo]

You are aware that the military is a "governmental institution"?
I clearly remember being told that when I showed up to formation that I had to dress a certian way and have my hair cut a certian way and had to be clean shaven.Even off duty I could wear what ever I want but it had to be with in certian standards for example I could not wear a baseball sideways,pants sagging below the ass crack,shirt partially tucked in and a ridiculously long silver chain that came down to waist.

When you join the military you sacrifice many of your rights, free speech being one of them. In the corporate/non-governmental world, there are lots of things that the military does that would be illegal - the military gets special status.

 

[jamesrage]

When you join the military you sacrifice many of your rights, free speech being one of them. In the corporate/non-governmental world, there are lots of things that the military does that would be illegal - the military gets special status.

But you just said "Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them."

Correct me if I am wrong I could have sworn the military was a "governmental institution".So your argument that schools being governmental institutions therefor students can dress what ever the way the want is a invalid argument.

The sole purpose of a school is to get a education.

 

[t125eagle]

very good point. school is for education. i think that biases and politics should stay out of the classroom, unless it is a political class. way too much bs in the educator's office.

 

[Engimo]

But you just said "Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them."

Correct me if I am wrong I could have sworn the military was a "governmental institution".So your argument that schools being governmental institutions therefor students can dress what ever the way the want is a invalid argument.

The sole purpose of a school is to get a education.

The thing is, the 1st Amendment does apply to all governmental institutions, it's just that the Supreme Court has decided that 1st Amendment rights can be subordinate to national security/defense of the country. The 1st Amendment holds perfectly fine in the military, it's just that soldiers sacrifice some of the usage of those rights for the sake of national security. What I said was true, and trying to call me on a technicality of what I said is irrelevant, as the 1st Amendment certainly does apply in public schools.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Here's a shocking notion:

How about requiring a uniformity of tolerance among students rather than uniformity of appearance?

Where the parti-colored spikey-head with the iron mine in his face is allowed to sit respectfully in class right between the prissy christian blond broad, the size-ninety gangbanger, the preppy fairy rich boy wannabe, and the moron jock football player letterman?

The rule is this: One of the things the little monsters go to school to learn is socializatioin skills, the Rodney King "can't we all get along" crap. The only way to learn this is by personal experience. So the moron that makes fun of the Christian broad's silly beliefs should go to the principal's office for a lecture and some detention right next to the used bit of toilet paper that made fun of the table-cloth his silly beliefs make him wear on his own head, and behind the guy wearing the doily who got in trouble from some other stupid intolerant thing he may have said.

Teaching the student that forced conformity of appearance is an acceptable way of avoiding social conflict is not only being lied to, he's suffering under the abuses of power petty minor bureaucrats are so fond of. The First Amendment doesn't stop at the school yard gate.

As for the "freaky friday" and alleged loss of productivity myth, I'm an engineer, I dress like a slob, my desk is a waste-paper-land, and I just got an award for being basically a work-aholic. There's no "casual dress" days where I work, the place has a "just don't be naked" attitude, and we all work just fine.

US colleges are becoming a joke because US high school education has been a joke. The colleges now have to expend resources on remedial training to get today's freshmen up to the level incoming freshmen used to be required to have. The decline in high school grad quality started back in the sixties, and has nothing to do with threads. The problems are parental apathy driving student apathy on the one side, and the new concept of teacher-as-nanny on the other.

Does't it bother you people that the most readily apparent lesson students will get from enforcing a school uniform policy is that it's okay for the majority to force the minority to conform to a standard of behavior defined by the majority?

That's about as un-American as things get. It's no wonder school uniforms are being promoted by the public schools.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

But you just said "Except that public schools are governmental institutions, so the 1st Amendment applies to them."

Correct me if I am wrong I could have sworn the military was a "governmental institution".So your argument that schools being governmental institutions therefor students can dress what ever the way the want is a invalid argument.

The sole purpose of a school is to get a education.

The military wears uniforms because, among other things, the international laws of warfare require it. They're also necessary for internal discipline, identification of rank, and establishment of primary lines of thought and development of emotional bonding in the service (unit cohesiveness), and other purposes clearly not desireable in the student child population of a free nation. It's perfectly acceptable in a totalitarian or semi-totalitarian state for the children to be uniformed in schools. Most of them are destined to be cannon fodder for the tyrant's army anyway. Also, in this day and age, participation in the US military is a voluntary choice made by adults.

The United States is not supposed to be a regimented society, so why inculcate notions of regimentation in the young?

Schools are involuntary activities forced upon minors. It's fairly obvious to everyone that a person is below a certain age, and it's common enough knowledge that persons below a certain age should be in school. Thus for identification purposes uniforms are not necessary.

 

[George_Washington]

Does't it bother you people that the most readily apparent lesson students will get from enforcing a school uniform policy is that it's okay for the majority to force the minority to conform to a standard of behavior defined by the majority?

That's about as un-American as things get. It's no wonder school uniforms are being promoted by the public schools.

The thing is, our youth is so out of control compared to the youths of other countries. You mentioned that our schools are lagging behind and that's so much the truth. The advantages of uniforms would be many. It would prevent gangs from wearing clothes that identify themselves with each other. It would also prevent students from wearing excessively baggy clothing to hide weapons in. The student's social standing would be based more on individual character than economic status. I just think it would also teach discipline to students.

The bottom line is, kids are not going to school to, "express themselves". They can express themselves all they want at home, hanging with friends on the weekends, or whenever. But they're in school to learn. Besides, why does dress have to be the only way to express yourself? Can't you express yourself in other ways such as drawing in your lunch break or writing creative stories?

I think the idea of the majority opressing the minority in this case is rubbish. The minority, rather they like it or not, must cede some of their rights to the majority in order to have a civilized society. I refuse to believe in the moronic idea that the, "minority" should be able to do whatever they want. We should encourage students to learn how to dress professional and clean cut looking and to adopt a certain kind of appearance that will help them succeed in careers. If they want to dress like rock stars or like they're going to a night club, that's fine, but just leave it for the off hours.

I mean think about it, you guys. What kind of a job can you get wearing spiked red hair, a thousand piercings, and tatoos all over your face? About the only thing you could do would be to become a musician. Even if you tried to become an actor, you'd very limited to the roles you could play with that look.

The bottom line is, in order to have a civilized, capitalistic, and productive society, one must learn to conform to a certain extent. Conformity is all around us and the sooner kids learn this, the better off they will be in the real world. I mean heck, even Universities have dress standards.

Nobody should mistake me; I am huge fan of art and fashion. In fact, I do buy nice clothes. But I just think that students would be better off with uniforms. And like I said before, maybe we could contract with reputable fashion designers to make the uniforms and perhaps students could choose between several varities.

 

[Engimo]

The thing is, our youth is so out of control compared to the youths of other countries. You mentioned that our schools are lagging behind and that's so much the truth. The advantages of uniforms would be many. It would prevent gangs from wearing clothes that identify themselves with each other. It would also prevent students from wearing excessively baggy clothing to hide weapons in. The student's social standing would be based more on individual character than economic status. I just think it would also teach discipline to students.

Source? I find it hard to believe that our youth is so out of control when compared to other countries. How about those riots over in France there, huh? I don't see little Billy coming home from school and burning cars.

The bottom line is, kids are not going to school to, "express themselves". They can express themselves all they want at home, hanging with friends on the weekends, or whenever. But they're in school to learn. Besides, why does dress have to be the only way to express yourself? Can't you express yourself in other ways such as drawing in your lunch break or writing creative stories?

Besides, why does writing have to be the only way to express yourself? Can't you express yourself in other ways such as drawing or singing? Clearly, we need to make free press illegal.

(There's a reason they are called rights, it's because they can't be taken away or infringed without a good reason. Last time I checked, not wearing school uniforms isn't a matter of national security in any stretch.)

I mean think about it, you guys. What kind of a job can you get wearing spiked red hair, a thousand piercings, and tatoos all over your face? About the only thing you could do would be to become a musician. Even if you tried to become an actor, you'd very limited to the roles you could play with that look.

The bottom line is, in order to have a civilized, capitalistic, and productive society, one must learn to conform to a certain extent. Conformity is all around us and the sooner kids learn this, the better off they will be in the real world. I mean heck, even Universities have dress standards.

That's great, but the private sector isn't dictated by the 1st Amendment. The problem we have here with school uniforms is twofold: the effectiveness is questionable, and the legality is questionable.

Nobody should mistake me; I am huge fan of art and fashion. In fact, I do buy nice clothes. But I just think that students would be better off with uniforms. And like I said before, maybe we could contract with reputable fashion designers to make the uniforms and perhaps students could choose between several varities.

I would rather wear rags that I chose to wear than a beautiful uniform I was forced into.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

The thing is, our youth is so out of control compared to the youths of other countries.

Putting them all in the Nuevo Hitler Youth won't change this. What will change this is a proper adult response to improper juvenile behavior.

OH! I'm sorry! I'm sure raising the specter of the NHY will generate a vast volume of totally emotional and irrelevent unfactual replies. Tough. That's the path juvie regimentation leads down.

You mentioned that our schools are lagging behind and that's so much the truth.

I also made clear the problem wasn't with the textile industry.

The advantages of uniforms would be many. It would prevent gangs from wearing clothes that identify themselves with each other.

No it doesn't. Gang insignia shows up as small items of jewelry, hair styles, shoe types, and everything else you can think of, because the schools can't control absolutely everythihg, though they try. Schools even have silly rules attempting to control hand signals and body language.

It would also prevent students from wearing excessively baggy clothing to hide weapons in.

I used to carry a box cutter in my back pocket. Totally flat, utterly invisible. Came in real handy when three of brothers tried to mug me. What's wrong with responsible possession of weapons in school? Don't you want them to learn how to be adults?

The student's social standing would be based more on individual character than economic status.

Don't be silly, it detracts from your credibility.

I just think it would also teach discipline to students.

No. It will teach them to resent authority, how to find ways to circumvent it, and that adults really are as retarded as the kids think they are.

Don't confuse discipline, which is most effective when self-imposed, to regimentation, which is enforced by others.

The bottom line is, kids are not going to school to, "express themselves". They can express themselves all they want at home, hanging with friends on the weekends, or whenever. But they're in school to learn.

Learn what? Learn that the government has the authority to control their expression? Learn that it really is the outward appearances that are important to society and that the individual doesn't count?

Want them to learn English? Teach them English, and expell the disruptive students from the class (the "disruptive" students are not necessarily the ones with the peculiar dress and hairdo). Get the kids that don't belong in school out of the school, ie the one's who're there to cause touble, or otherwise disrupt, and suddenly you discover the issue of uniforms is merely camoflage for the real problem.

Besides, why does dress have to be the only way to express yourself? Can't you express yourself in other ways such as drawing in your lunch break or writing creative stories?

Who said anything about "only"? Got yourself a straw dog here.

I think the idea of the majority opressing the minority in this case is rubbish. The minority, rather they like it or not, must cede some of their rights to the majority in order to have a civilized society.

You should find a new monicker. So long as the minority is respectful of the liberties of others, others should respect their liberties also.

I refuse to believe in the moronic idea that the, "minority" should be able to do whatever they want.

You have the freedom to believe anything you wish. There's no law that ever successfully eradicated personal error.

We should encourage students to learn how to dress professional and clean cut looking and to adopt a certain kind of appearance that will help them succeed in careers.

The key word you use is "encourage". Encouragement is not the same thing as "force".

Besides which, enforcing arbitrary fashion codes isn't the school's problem. At most, perhaps teachers should be required to conform to a minimum code of professional appearance and conduct to set an example? Most schools do, I'm sure, but I also recall my kid's fifth grade teacher telling the students they should call him "Kep", and not "Mr. Kepper"

I mean think about it, you guys. What kind of a job can you get wearing spiked red hair, a thousand piercings, and tatoos all over your face? About the only thing you could do would be to become a musician. Even if you tried to become an actor, you'd very limited to the roles you could play with that look.

I mean, think about, you guys. I dress like a slob and engineer state of the art spacecraft. As for the tattoo and piercing thing, I managed to get one kid through school without letting her "improve" on nature, and I've got two more in the pipeline that won't disrespect themselves either. The schools aren't parents, and besides, school dress codes cannot control tats anyway, and they shouldn't control jewelry, as the above discussion proves.

If some brother wants to OG, let him.

The bottom line is, in order to have a civilized, capitalistic, and productive society, one must learn to conform to a certain extent.

Bulloney. "Conformity" merely means that a group of people got together and formed a clique. If the clique is large enough, it can encompass a nation. Market forces will act easily enough on the young monsters when they're trying to find jobs. The most extreme fruitcakes won't get hired. Fair enough. Government has no business getting involved in fashion wars.

Conformity is all around us and the sooner kids learn this, the better off they will be in the real world. I mean heck, even Universities have dress standards.

Kids don't need to learn conformity. Peer pressures teach them that at a young age. What certain adults need to learn is tolerance.

Nobody should mistake me; I am huge fan of art and fashion. In fact, I do buy nice clothes. But I just think that students would be better off with uniforms. And like I said before, maybe we could contract with reputable fashion designers to make the uniforms and perhaps students could choose between several varities.

I think art and fashion suck. I wear jeans, plain old Levi's, and denim shirts, occasionally I change my underwear. But I do my job well and conduct my self professionally. And that's what counts.

 

[Bob]

One of my old schools not only required that everyone wear a uniform, but the uniform could not have a brand name on it, everyone had to wear the same thing or somehow take the logos off. The policy was strictly enforced by the teachers and the administration and it made no noticable difference in the academic performance or social standings of anyone in the school. I would even venture to say that it was worse then most of the other schools I have attended.