Sally Kohn: Fox News Not So Bad

[MrWonka]

Wonka!! Chill, dude...you're making valid points but a little less sledgehammer, please.

When going high wins, and going low loses I will go high. This country made an asshole the most powerful man in the world. If Republicans think he should be a leader why shouldn't I be following his lead?

At some point, liberals need to wake up and realize that being nice all the time isn't a winning strategy.

 

[Felis Leo]

To say up front, I don't watch Fox News (except for Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace) but the left should really read this piece by one of Fox's ex liberal commentators or contributors:





https://www.yahoo.com/news/liberal-worked-fox-news-apos-143821545.html

Well, that was a very nice, conciliatory article. Good for Ms. Kohn.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

hehe...it's all good, Strangler, I agree with Wonka on most things, and I get how easy it is to get carried away these days. Sometimes we all need to give our head a shake, though... Also, if you're gonna talk **** about my Grandma, I'm gonna go all Incredible Hulk on your ass... haha

I'll agree with you re: "true believers"...I just tend to think the Left's fringe can be around as annoying as the Right's fringe, depending on the day.

Why don't you guys help more of us become Canadians. That's the quickest way to help some of the Left fringe gradually turn into moderate libs.
I can sneak in among the crowd while pretending to be Left "fringe" and then revert back to my usual self and I promise no one will notice it was an act.

(Psssstt...this is a veiled cry for help - Get ME the *** outta here!!!!!!)

 

[Felis Leo]

When going high wins, and going low loses I will go high. This country made an asshole the most powerful man in the world. If Republicans think he should be a leader why shouldn't I be following his lead?

At some point, liberals need to wake up and realize that being nice all the time isn't a winning strategy.

How exactly do you define "nice"? I mean, were liberals/progressives/people on the political left being "nice" to Donald Trump and those people who voted for him up until the election and I just did not notice?

 

[OlNate]

When someone is behaving badly it is not bigotry to call them on their bull****.

Unless you can prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that your generalizations apply evenly to every single member of the demographic you are talking **** about, then it most certainly is.

Anyway...we'll continue this when your mood ring goes back to green / blue. We agree on most things ideologically, I just don't think you accurately describe every conservative. Are all liberals exactly the same? Of course not, no two people are, which is why the Left tend to be against generalizations...at least, they used to be, who knows WTF anything or anyone is anymore... All I know is that you're never going to find common ground if you just run around calling everyone assholes. Be specific, at least.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

When going high wins, and going low loses I will go high. This country made an asshole the most powerful man in the world. If Republicans think he should be a leader why shouldn't I be following his lead?

At some point, liberals need to wake up and realize that being nice all the time isn't a winning strategy.

I'm with you on that one but Nate's not your target.
The Right in America has enjoyed the luxury of defining what liberals are for forty years and has gotten away with it for so long that it is now a money making industry for them.

So don't be surprised if they get all indignant when we jerk their meal ticket out of their hands.

 

[OlNate]

Why don't you guys help more of us become Canadians. That's the quickest way to help some of the Left fringe gradually turn into moderate libs.
I can sneak in among the crowd while pretending to be Left "fringe" and then revert back to my usual self and I promise no one will notice it was an act.

(Psssstt...this is a veiled cry for help - Get ME the *** outta here!!!!!!)

lol... no, too late...it's spreading north of the border faster than I'd like to admit. Check out Doug Ford, our current front runner for the leadership of Ontario... I'm starting to think I'm the crazy one...

 

[OlNate]

When going high wins, and going low loses I will go high. This country made an asshole the most powerful man in the world. If Republicans think he should be a leader why shouldn't I be following his lead?

At some point, liberals need to wake up and realize that being nice all the time isn't a winning strategy.

Wonka, when has being a dick ever worked out in the history of all mankind? Like, ever? When has violence ever brought lasting peace in the history of mankind? Like, ever? You're just being the other side of the same coin right now...be a different coin, if you want a different result.

 

[Hypothetical]

Ok, first of all, I was speaking from a Canadian perspective, since we are facing similar movements towards populism within our conservative party, so your attempt to demonize my grandmother and your insulting my intelligence regarding not understanding the meaning of words is unwarranted. Maybe if you actually put two seconds worth of thought into your responses, instead of just lashing out at anything that is different than you, demonstrating that you are no better than the people you condemn, you could avoid embarrassing yourself.

Second of all, there will always be a conservative element to any society, because not all opinions are the same, and yours are not best by default simply because they are yours. Your approach to this difference among your fellow citizens makes you as much a force for division as any of the right wing fringe loons, and your generalization is no different in accuracy then the "conservative racists" you are talking **** about.

Basically, calm the **** down, Wonka, you're not contributing one damn thing with your soap box generalizations. You should take the advice from your DP avatar, and stop being such a bigot yourself:

big·ot

/ˈbiɡət/

noun
noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions

just to put it in perspective olNate... THIS is the kind of treatment US conservatives feel like we have to deal with every day, btw. even if you only lean conservative or only on some issues.

 

[OlNate]

just to put it in perspective olNate... THIS is the kind of treatment US conservatives feel like we have to deal with every day, btw. even if you only lean conservative or only on some issues.

It's both sides, friend...if nothing else should unite you guys, it's that no one is innocent.

 

[Felis Leo]

It's both sides, friend...if nothing else should unite you guys, it's that no one is innocent.

Agreed. That is why I think it is best start from the standpoint of not treating people who do not share our political viewpoints and opinions like pieces of garbage and insulting their grandmothers.

 

[Hypothetical]

It's both sides, friend...if nothing else should unite you guys, it's that no one is innocent.

I would like to challenge you to find a post where i said anything hateful to anyone or their group in general, like racist, stupid, deplorable, etc.

maybe I have , I can't remember doing so, but maybe i lost my temper and said "stupid leftists" at some point, but it would be VERY few and far between

 

[OlNate]

I would like to challenge you to find a post where i said anything hateful to anyone or their group in general, like racist, stupid, deplorable, etc.

maybe I have , I can't remember doing so, but maybe i lost my temper and said "stupid leftists" at some point, but it would be VERY few and far between

hehe...you're only 600 posts in, we'll see where you're at in a couple thousand...

I think you highlight something kind of important, though...I think that division has become complete that folks aren't even aware of what they are doing, or if the are, they don't see it as a problem. Also, after going off on Wonka, I realize that "no one is innocent" is a generalization too, so I should have picked my words more carefully...perhaps a symptom of not being aware, or not seeing it as a problem, I guess... I certainly don't excuse myself in any of this. And, of course, it would be a sliding scale...not much binary (eg. full asshole or perfect angel being the only two states of being) about human beings, as far as I've been able to see.

 

[MrWonka]

Wonka, when has being a dick ever worked out in the history of all mankind? Like, ever?

Nov 7th, 2016.

Do you not know who LaVar Ball is?

How about Jim Rome?

How are Sean Hannity's ratings doing compared to Anderson Coopers?

Do you like Sherlock Holmes? How about Iron Man?

There sure seems to be a **** load of wealthy assholes in this country if you ask me. Not all, but a hell of a lot.

When has violence ever brought lasting peace in the history of mankind? Like, ever?

How about this day in 1861?

June 6th, 1944 worked out okay.

1775 was kind of a necessary evil.

You're just being the other side of the same coin right now...

Do you not realize how many people sounded just like you while Hitler was marching across Europe? I'm not waiting for Pearl Harbor. The 2018 version has access to nuclear weapons. By the time some of you come around to the seriousness of the situation it may be too late.

 

[OlNate]

Nov 7th, 2016.

Do you not know who LaVar Ball is?

How about Jim Rome?

How are Sean Hannity's ratings doing compared to Anderson Coopers?

Do you like Sherlock Holmes? How about Iron Man?

There sure seems to be a **** load of wealthy assholes in this country if you ask me. Not all, but a hell of a lot.



How about this day in 1861?

June 6th, 1944 worked out okay.

1775 was kind of a necessary evil.



Do you not realize how many people sounded just like you while Hitler was marching across Europe? I'm not waiting for Pearl Harbor. The 2018 version has access to nuclear weapons. By the time some of you come around to the seriousness of the situation it may be too late.

lol...alright, bud, knock yourself out...just understand that you aren't helping anything.

Just one glaring error to point out. I said *lasting* peace. If violence had worked in the first example, you wouldn't have the second and third example. And every other example.

Anyway, I'm sure you know best...meet the new boss / same as the old boss.

 

[MrWonka]

just to put it in perspective olNate... THIS is the kind of treatment US conservatives feel like we have to deal with every day, btw. even if you only lean conservative or only on some issues.

Now imagine if you were black, or gay, or an Arab, or an Atheist, or an undocumented immigrant, or a woman, or on Welfare?

Try and imagine intolerance like it's any other type of weapon...

If you were shooting a gun at an innocent person, and then I pulled out my own gun and started shooting at you, technically we'd both be doing the same thing. We'd both be trying to kill someone, and if that's all you understood you might be tempted to think we're both bad guys. The difference is that if I stop shooting at you, you'll keep shooting the innocent until their dead. But if you stop shooting at the innocent I no longer have any reason to keep shooting at you. The only person that can stop this is you.

My quarrel with you originates entirely as a result of your treatment of others and actions you've chosen to take. Whereas your treatment of them originates because of circumstances they were born into, can't really change, and shouldn't be required to. In this country, all men are created equal. It's the choices you make after that which make you good or bad, better or worse. It's time for you to understand that if 80% of conservatives approve of a morally bankrupt reckless and manipulative lunatic then you're not leaning conservative, you're leaning evil.

 

[Hypothetical]

Nov 7th, 2016.

Do you not know who LaVar Ball is?

How about Jim Rome?

How are Sean Hannity's ratings doing compared to Anderson Coopers?

Do you like Sherlock Holmes? How about Iron Man?

There sure seems to be a **** load of wealthy assholes in this country if you ask me. Not all, but a hell of a lot.



How about this day in 1861?

June 6th, 1944 worked out okay.

1775 was kind of a necessary evil.



Do you not realize how many people sounded just like you while Hitler was marching across Europe? I'm not waiting for Pearl Harbor. The 2018 version has access to nuclear weapons. By the time some of you come around to the seriousness of the situation it may be too late.

I'm sorry but that seems a bit overzealous about the situation.

all we are trying to figure out (*as a country) is whether
1. illegal immigrants should be allowed into the country freely.
2. the meaning of shall not infringe and what hinges on being in the militia.
3. whether cops are being more deadly to people in general, and if so whether they are being so to black men, causing their deaths unnecessarily.
4. whether confederate civil war monuments should be taken down as abominations or left up as a part of history and a warning.
5. whether marijuana should be legal.

isn't that what 90% of the posts in here are about other than "trump is stupid"?

 

[MrWonka]

Just one glaring error to point out. I said *lasting* peace. If violence had worked in the first example, you wouldn't have the second and third example. And every other example.

Just because another unrelated fight breaks out at some point in the future doesn't mean the initial problem wasn't solved with the first one.

Democracy won the revolution. We're still not fighting over whether we should have a Monarchy.

Abolitionists won the civil war. Even most seriously racist conservatives aren't seriously trying to bring back slavery.

While it is true that fascism has seen a bit of resurgence under Trump, at least it's not so much focused on the Jews this time.

 

[OlNate]

Just because another unrelated fight breaks out at some point in the future doesn't mean the initial problem wasn't solved with the first one.

Democracy won the revolution. We're still not fighting over whether we should have a Monarchy.

Abolitionists won the civil war. Even most seriously racist conservatives aren't seriously trying to bring back slavery.

While it is true that fascism has seen a bit of resurgence under Trump, at least it's not so much focused on the Jews this time.

And the cost of each of those "wins" were pretty ****ing high, if you consider that as one problem was "resolved", another one popped into place.

Anyway, as the song goes: "But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao / You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow"

Sorry, man, but while I may agree with you on what's important, I'm totally not aligned with how you think you're gonna get it.

 

[MrWonka]

all we are trying to figure out (*as a country) is whether
1. illegal immigrants should be allowed into the country freely.

We're not trying to figure this one out. Our founding fathers already decided it. There was no such thing as an illegal immigrant in those days. The concept was largely invented by racists in the 1950's.

2. the meaning of shall not infringe and what hinges on being in the militia.

No, this has already been decided as well. Fully automatic weapons and all kinds of other destructive Arms which would be necessary for the usage of any serious Militia are already illegal. We're debating how deadly can a weapon be before it's too deadly, and a wide majority of Americans seem to think the AR-15 is too deadly. We're also debating whether any idiot should be allowed to buy a gun, or if there should be standards. The vast majority of Americans agree on that as well.

The will and rights of the people has been easily established in this situation. The problem is simply that the Republican party is standing in the way of it.

3. whether cops are being more deadly to people in general, and if so whether they are being so to black men, causing their deaths unnecessarily.

We don't need to debate this. The data proves it.

4. whether confederate civil war monuments should be taken down as abominations or left up as a part of history and a warning.

Name another country on earth that would allow for the erection of statue honoring armed rebels that tried to overthrow their own government in order to keep people as slaves.

5. whether marijuana should be legal.

Drugs are a personal choice that should not effect the lives of anybody other than the person who chooses to use them. In a truly free country this debate shouldn't exist. The only question is what potency should businesses be allowed to sell.

isn't that what 90% of the posts in here are about other than "trump is stupid"?

You forgot who was President when the economy was destroyed, and what where tax brackets like. And who was president when the Economy was restored, and what were his tax brackets. Again, really shouldn't be a debate.

 

[MrWonka]

And the cost of each of those "wins" was pretty ****ing high,

Which is why it's so important for you to not let evil get itself entrenched this time.

 

[Hypothetical]

We're not trying to figure this one out. Our founding fathers already decided it. There was no such thing as an illegal immigrant in those days. The concept was largely invented by racists in the 1950's.


No, this has already been decided as well. Fully automatic weapons and all kinds of other destructive Arms which would be necessary for the usage of any serious Militia are already illegal. We're debating how deadly can a weapon be before it's too deadly, and a wide majority of Americans seem to think the AR-15 is too deadly. We're also debating whether any idiot should be allowed to buy a gun, or if there should be standards. The vast majority of Americans agree on that as well.

The will and rights of the people has been easily established in this situation. The problem is simply that the Republican party is standing in the way of it.


We don't need to debate this. The data proves it.


Name another country on earth that would allow for the erection of statue honoring armed rebels that tried to overthrow their own government in order to keep people as slaves.


Drugs are a personal choice that should not effect the lives of anybody other than the person who chooses to use them. In a truly free country this debate shouldn't exist. The only question is what potency should businesses be allowed to sell.



You forgot who was President when the economy was destroyed, and what where tax brackets like. And who was president when the Economy was restored, and what were his tax brackets. Again, really shouldn't be a debate.

Which is why it's so important for you to not let evil get itself entrenched this time.

and so anyone who doesn't believe what you do on these topics is evil?

 

[OlNate]

Which is why it's so important for you to not let evil get itself entrenched this time.

I agree. But what you're suggesting won't help anything.

 

[Moderate Right]

If the shoe fits wear it. What are you a snowflake that can't handle criticism? Whether you like it or not these words describe you accurately. You know the difference is between the people we attack, and the people that the right attacks? The people we attack can change. They learn how to stop being deplorable bigots and racists. They can stop being homophobic. They can wake up to the reality that immigration is a good thing, not a bad thing. They can wake up the reality that Muslims are no more evil than Christians.

Black people can't stop being black. Latinos can't stop being Latino. Arabs can't stop being Arab. Women can't stop being women. Gay people can't stop being gay. You and your pals in the Republican party CAN stop treating them like **** though because they don't deserve it.

The shoe obviously fits the left.

 

[Moderate Right]

When going high wins, and going low loses I will go high. This country made an asshole the most powerful man in the world. If Republicans think he should be a leader why shouldn't I be following his lead?

At some point, liberals need to wake up and realize that being nice all the time isn't a winning strategy.

Ummmmmmmmm. Hillary spent months on the campaign trail doing nothing but attacking Trump. She was never playing nice. The left were never playing nice.