Running from the Resurrection [W: 646]

[tosca1]

Because he wasn't the messiah?
Simple enough that one.
All the rest are just as total BS as that one.

In other words, you can't answer. And you don't make any sense.

Bye-bye.

 

[roguenuke]

But we know that the main issues remained consistent - such as the prophecies that eventually came true.
The main message remains the same.


Here's an interesting long read.

The early Christian creed related to the historicity and deity of Jesus in
1 Corinthians 15 is actually a written record of the earliest transmitted data we have about Jesus. It represents a view of Jesus expressed within four to six years of the Resurrection.

There’s no reason to believe this view of Jesus was not being communicated even earlier. It would still be several years before any of the eyewitnesses would write a Gospel, but there is no mystery about what was being said about Jesus prior to the writing of the Gospels.

The eyewitnesses were steadfast and consistent in their claims related to the historicity and deity of Jesus.

What Were the Disciples Saying About Jesus Prior to Writing the Gospels? | Cold Case Christianity



Witnessing an astounding miracle like the Resurrection is at the top of any scale when we talk about
life-changing experience.

I can still recall vividly what I was doing when I first learned about the attack on 9/11 - and I can still vividly see in my mind what I saw on tv! And that's more than 10 years ago.

No, we don't know all that. You are making assumptions about it.

Predictions made by "psychics" come "true" all the time. It is all based on vague prophecies that easily come true by simply looking for them to come true. Then fitting a given scenario to match. Not one prophecy made in the Bible predicts anything exactly in a way that could honestly be said to be an accurate prediction.

We have had people "predicting" various things that people in this world would eventually come up with, at least to a certain degree, just due to the ability of humans to draw reasonable conclusions given other evidence. I can predict that sometime in the future, we are likely to develop technology that will allow us to live in space or on the moon, provided that we don't experience some major near-extinction event that sets back the progress we are currently making. We will likely see maglev technology replacing certain other forms of transportation. Many others, with far more vision than myself could probably successfully predict things that humans will face further out with pretty good accuracy. And the more vague they are the more likely they are to eventually be right.

Within 4-6 years is a long time. That is enough time for major changes to any story to occur, especially someone who died.

I bet you can't recall as much about it as you think you can. You likely believe you do, but that doesn't mean you are right. For instance, I absolutely recall getting woken up by my roommate, and being told that something had happened (cannot recall the exact words he said). I quickly went into the living room to watch the news (it was about 6 am where I was), while he woke up our other roommate. Sometime after they were back in the living room, I remember saying "we need to get to base now". Now, I'm willing to bet that my description won't completely match what my roommates would say happened. It is also possible that any of us can see our memories changed to match pieces of the other person's.

Eyewitness memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "misinformation effect" is a real phenomenon that occurs when people start talking to others or hearing things others are or developing some sort of bias. They start to believe things that simply didn't happen. They end up with false memories of an event that they witnessed.

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~mzaragoz/publications/Zaragoza%20chapter%204%20Garry%20Hayne.pdf

4-6 years is more than enough time for this to happen, way more.

 

[Quag]

You don't make any sense. Bye-bye.

No you claim the prophesies are true because Jesus is the Messiah. You then try and use these prophesies that you have "proven" to prove that Jesus was God.
It is a circular argument and utterly fails when you cant prove Jesus was the Messiah.
Honestly why do people feel the need to prove their faith? it just makes them look ridiculous.

 

[tosca1]

No, we don't know all that. You are making assumptions about it.

Predictions made by "psychics" come "true" all the time. It is all based on vague prophecies that easily come true by simply looking for them to come true. Then fitting a given scenario to match. Not one prophecy made in the Bible predicts anything exactly in a way that could honestly be said to be an accurate prediction.

We have had people "predicting" various things that people in this world would eventually come up with, at least to a certain degree, just due to the ability of humans to draw reasonable conclusions given other evidence. I can predict that sometime in the future, we are likely to develop technology that will allow us to live in space or on the moon, provided that we don't experience some major near-extinction event that sets back the progress we are currently making. We will likely see maglev technology replacing certain other forms of transportation. Many others, with far more vision than myself could probably successfully predict things that humans will face further out with pretty good accuracy. And the more vague they are the more likely they are to eventually be right.

Within 4-6 years is a long time. That is enough time for major changes to any story to occur, especially someone who died.

I bet you can't recall as much about it as you think you can. You likely believe you do, but that doesn't mean you are right. For instance, I absolutely recall getting woken up by my roommate, and being told that something had happened (cannot recall the exact words he said). I quickly went into the living room to watch the news (it was about 6 am where I was), while he woke up our other roommate. Sometime after they were back in the living room, I remember saying "we need to get to base now". Now, I'm willing to bet that my description won't completely match what my roommates would say happened. It is also possible that any of us can see our memories changed to match pieces of the other person's.

Eyewitness memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The "misinformation effect" is a real phenomenon that occurs when people start talking to others or hearing things others are or developing some sort of bias. They start to believe things that simply didn't happen. They end up with false memories of an event that they witnessed.

http://www.personal.kent.edu/~mzaragoz/publications/Zaragoza%20chapter%204%20Garry%20Hayne.pdf

4-6 years is more than enough time for this to happen, way more.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with your assumptions. Like as if personal opinion would have more merit compared to facts, and words of scholars. You should at least do some research. Bye-bye.

 

[RogueWarrior]

365 Messianic Prophecies

sad you can't read properly

did you miss the part about NOT USING circular logic by using one part of the claim to prove another part of the claim?

or do you think circular logic is a desired thing?

 

[tosca1]

No you claim the prophesies are true because Jesus is the Messiah. You then try and use these prophesies that you have "proven" to prove that Jesus was God.
It is a circular argument and utterly fails when you cant prove Jesus was the Messiah.
Honestly why do people feel the need to prove their faith? it just makes them look ridiculous.

:doh

And you don't understand what you read, to boot.

:2wave:

 

[Quag]

In other words, you can't answer. And you don't make any sense.

Bye-bye.

I did answer Jesus is not the Messiah.
Prove me wrong. Oh wait you cant you just make circular arguments and point to the bible saying see it must be true its in here.
Sorry not gonna fly
No logical person will accept that argument. Now if you came on here and said I have faith that Jesus is the messiah that would be different but that isn't what you or (il)logicman are doing.

 

[Quag]

:doh

And you can't understand what you read, to boot.

:2wave:

I am not the one with reading comprehension or logical reasoning problems.

 

[Quag]

sad you can't read properly

did you miss the part about NOT USING circular logic by using one part of the claim to prove another part of the claim?

or do you think circular logic is a desired thing?

Apparently circular logic is Ok when proving ones faith. of course if some other guy tries to use it to prove another faith then of course it doesn't work

 

[tosca1]

I am not the one with reading comprehension or logical reasoning problems.

Whatever. :shrug:

 

[RogueWarrior]

I did answer[. Unless proven,] Jesus is not the Messiah.
Prove me wrong. Oh wait you cant you just make circular arguments and point to the bible saying see it must be true its in here.
Sorry not gonna fly
No logical person will accept that argument. Now if you came on here and said I have faith that Jesus is the messiah that would be different but that isn't what you or (il)logicman are doing.

gotta be careful about positive assertions...

 

[tosca1]

sad you can't read properly

did you miss the part about NOT USING circular logic by using one part of the claim to prove another part of the claim?

or do you think circular logic is a desired thing?

Whatever. :shrug:

 

[RogueWarrior]

Whatever. :shrug:

dodge questions much?

 

[Quag]

gotta be careful about positive assertions...

I have faith

 

[Quag]

Whatever. :shrug:

You made the circular argument not me so if you want to get angry or blame someone then I suggest you look in the mirror.

 

[tosca1]

dodge questions much?

You ignored the questions I asked you. You ignored practically the arguments given to you....and you responded with mere opinion and assumptions. There's no point to this at all. I don't want to waste time. So I bid you.....

:2wave:

 

[RogueWarrior]

I have faith

Oh crap. Can't you take penicillin or something?

 

[RogueWarrior]

You ignored the questions I asked you. You ignored practically the arguments given to you....and you responded with mere opinion and assumptions. There's no point to this at all. I don't want to waste time. So I bid you.....

:2wave:

Sorry sweetie but you haven't asked me any questions.
I asked you for non-circular logic evidence and then you answered with circular logic evidence.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

Moderator's Warning:

Discuss the topic, not each other. Next post that goes out of line will result in infractions and thread bans.

 

[roguenuke]

Running from the Resurrection [W: 664]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with your assumptions. Like as if personal opinion would have more merit compared to facts, and words of scholars. You should at least do some research. Bye-bye.

You are making arguments based on faith, not science. And honestly that is fine so long as you recognize it is based on faith. There is no scientific evidence of the resurrection, or that proves major tenets of the bible. Just proving certain stories in the bible likely happened in some way doesn't prove they happened just as the bible says they did.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Moderator's Warning:

Discuss the topic, not each other. Next post that goes out of line will result in infractions and thread bans.

On a housekeeping matter, you might want to check and correct the thread title edit you did for this warning - there aren't as yet 664 posts in the thread - for future reference if anyone wants to check out your note.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

On a housekeeping matter, you might want to check and correct the thread title edit you did for this warning - there aren't as yet 664 posts in the thread - for future reference if anyone wants to check out your note.

Please do not quote mod boxes in the future. You can always PM me or just send a visitor message. Nevertheless, thank you.

 

[Somerville]

That's nonsense. Here's a starter page to bring you up to date on some of the historical figures in the Bible:

List of biblical figures identified in extra-biblical sources - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That conclusion is according to Somerville's sophomoric understanding of the Bible.



Like I said, I'm still waiting for empirical evidence for one of the miracles you have to believe in to make your world view fly - abiogenesis.

History is a bit more than names of known historic figures. Read any historical fiction novel and you will find the names of real persons used in the writing. The existence of a character does in no way convey the reality of the story where their name appears.

Interesting - a question is asked about abiogenesis but questions about the resurrection of Jewish "saints and massive earthquakes are ignored.

 

[Logicman]

History is a bit more than names of known historic figures. Read any historical fiction novel and you will find the names of real persons used in the writing. The existence of a character does in no way convey the reality of the story where their name appears.

Interesting - a question is asked about abiogenesis but questions about the resurrection of Jewish "saints and massive earthquakes are ignored.

Please see my previous post to you.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Please do not quote mod boxes in the future. You can always PM me or just send a visitor message. Nevertheless, thank you.

My mistake - in future I won't try to be helpful.

Have a good day.