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kal-el said:Libby indicted, it seems that Libby is the scapegoat. However, I'm not sure he'll rat on Rove or Cheney.
Some people did mention that Fitzgerald is known to "squeeze" the second guy in order to get to the number one guy.
Rove is a diabolical genius.
He'll pass the buck on to anyone to save his own ass.
Rove may have given Fitzgerald some info. to buy some time.
Rove's brain, Luskin, is running the legal show so Rove is well-defended. I just hate seeing this evil obese man constantly getting away with things.
I just have to hope that Fitzgerald will do the right thing.
In the mean time, I'll just visualize Bush's brain "General Rove" behind bars and hope Justice will prevail.
Does anyone think that Libby will serve any time?
Stinger said:For what?
For what?
Why do you use the word "diabolical", compared to whom?
And you know this how?
Do these things just come to you while you sleep?
So not only do you make baseless assertions about what he didn't do you have to attack him on a personal basis too.
What would that be?
He has not been accused of anything but you want him in jail and you call that justice, thankfully you and those who agree with you do not control our justice system where it seem you would have all your polticial oppenents interned. Do you know what that is call?
kal-el said:For the crime of outing a covert CIA agent. Why did I have to tell you that, were you born last night or something?
Some people did mention that Fitzgerald is known to "squeeze" the second guy in order to get to the number one guy.
Same response as above.
It dosen't take a genious to know Karl Rove is practically Bush's brain.
He's his political mastermind, without Rove Bush might as well not make any public appearances, he'll be the laughing stock of the US.
I'm sure he gave some info to Fitzgerald to indict Libby or buy himself some time. It dosen't matter who goes down as long as Rove is still employed.
What kind of asinine comment is that?
Didn't do?
IMO the right thing would be to seek indictments against Rove and Cheney,.
and bring charges of false evidence to go to war against Bush
Ever since the name of his wife, a covert CIA agent, was made public two years ago, Joseph Wilson has sought political revenge.
He openly fantasised that Karl Rove would be “frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs”.
It's a sad state of affairs that those with your ideology control practically all the branches of the Government.
Stinger said:Originally Posted by kal-el
Libby indicted, it seems that Libby is the scapegoat. However, I'm not sure he'll rat on Rove or Cheney.
Me>> For what?
Rove was not indicted, Fitzgerald presented it to the Grand Jury and if he even asked for an indictment he didn't get it. As far a Cheney what evidence do you have he outted a covert agent and who has proven Plame was covert and subject to that law. Fitzgerald did not.
Again for what. Fitzgerald did not find that she was covert.
Me>> Why do you use the word "diabolical", compared to whom?
No it takes an idiot.
Your ad hominems only weaken any case you are trying to bring. And again compared to whom? Is Carville diobolical too?
He'll pass the buck on to anyone to save his own ass.
Me>> And you know this how?
You're just "sure", that's it, that's your evidence. Perhaps you let your emotions overcome rational thinking.
One that is fitting to the baseless postulations you try to pass as fact.
Rove's brain, Luskin, is running the legal show so Rove is well-defended. I just hate seeing this evil obese man constantly getting away with things.
Me>> So not only do you make baseless assertions about what he didn't do you have to attack him on a personal basis too.
I reposted it. Since you can't get him on the facts apparently calling him fat makes up for it, how childish.
Indictments for what? You have no evidence either committed a crime. You have yet to say what Cheney should be indicted for and since we have no evidence that he ever spoke to a reporter about Plame I have no idea what you are talking about.
Well first anything along that line was out of Fitzgerald realm of investigation. Second exactly what law are you claiming Bush violated, since when is it against the law when a President recieves intelligence and acts upon it that when some of it proves wrong he has broken the law.
He and his wife sought it before then, they sought it when they cooked up their little plot to defraud the American people, when they engaged in their little game of political hardball.
Perhaps Wilson is the one who should be "frog-marched".
For those with your ideology of course it is since you are not in power. It would be a sad state of affairs for me if those with yours were in power. That's the way it is.
Me said:I'm sure he gave some info to Fitzgerald to indict Libby or buy himself some time. It dosen't matter who goes down as long as Rove is still employed.
kal-el said:I know this. Why did Cheney give away Plame's occupation? The investigation isn't over ya know.
What the hell does that matter? She was a CIA agent. Isn't considered an act of treason to out an agent?
Cheney is the actual president
Carville? Please, first off thats an asinine comparison, second, Rove is Bush's political advisor.
I'll give him this-he isn't dumb, in fact he's very intelligent. Someone in the Administration has to be to balance it out.
Stinger said:He talked to Libby about it because it contained false information about his involvement in it and it was an attack on their policies. OF COURSE he would talk about it and OF COURSE in the process Plame's involvement would come up. Why do you find that strange or unusual?
She was an employee of the CIA but from all indications did not come under the law which governs disclosing the identy of an active covert agent.
And with that you just proved how trivial your arguements are.
And Carville was a political advisor to Clinton and one of his attack dogs.
You know if all you have are these petty little childish ad hominems you can discuss it with someone else. When you want to have a reasonable discussion of the issues let me know.
kal-el said:I don't think anybody can truly think that Libby did this solely. As the chief of staff, his actions are at the very least attributable to Dick Cheney. When Jail is starring him in the grill, we will see where this came from. I'm tellin ya, ****'s gonna hit the fan. Chill the champagne.:lol: The part is just beginning.
http://newsbusters.org/node/2696
The leak of Valerie Plame Wilson's covert identity, if it was part of a plan to discredit her husband's report on his trip to Niger, is directly related to issues of "national security." After all, the Niger uranium claim was part of the basis for the Iraq War, and Joe Wilson's claim that it was bogus, and the President ought to have known as much, is intimately related to the politics of going to war - and also to national security in the sense of responding to genuine, and only genuine, threats to the United States.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051021.html
What? WTF are you spewing here? It seems you are showing signs of frustration, which hints at anger at the fact of having the holes in your take on it exposed.
Ok, but what does it have to do with outing a CIA agent?
:rofl , you seem to be getting pretty sour dude. The wick is indeed weakening.
aps said:Hey kal-el. Stinger does the same sort of crap with me. He has an argument for everything and has to have the last word. He sees nothing wrong with the whole Valerie Plame issue--nevermind that it was serious enough for there to be an investigation. Anyway, if I want to know what Stinger is going to say in response to anything I say, I just need to turn on Fox News. :lol:
kal-el said:I don't think anybody can truly think that Libby did this solely. As the chief of staff, his actions are at the very least attributable to Dick Cheney. When Jail is starring him in the grill, we will see where this came from. I'm tellin ya, ****'s gonna hit the fan. Chill the champagne.:lol: The party is just beginning!
The leak of Valerie Plame Wilson's covert identity,
if it was part of a plan to discredit her husband's report on his trip to Niger, is directly related to issues of "national security."
After all, the Niger uranium claim was part of the basis for the Iraq War, and Joe Wilson's claim that it was bogus,
What? WTF are you spewing here? It seems you are showing signs of frustration, which hints at anger at the fact of having the holes in your take on it exposed.
Ok, but what does it have to do with outing a CIA agent? Sure, Rove is an adviser to Bush,and Carville to Clinton, but James Carville didn't out a CIA agent,now did he?
you seem to be getting pretty sour dude. The wick is indeed weakening.
aps said:Hey kal-el. Stinger does the same sort of crap with me.
He has an argument for everything and has to have the last word.
He sees nothing wrong with the whole Valerie Plame issue
--nevermind that it was serious enough for there to be an investigation.
Anyway, if I want to know what Stinger is going to say in response to anything I say, I just need to turn on Fox News.
kal-el said::lol: It seems he likes to portray wishful thinking as fact.
Yea yea, Wilson lied about who sent him to Niger. Has anyone considered that he might have done that to keep his wife's identity secret? :shock: Wilson did NOT lie about what he found in Niger, that's really the only important thing when it comes to his credibility.He was chief-of-staff, he could very well have "done this" on his own. Wilson was selling a phoney story, I bet you fell for it, and falsely stating who sent him on the mission and what he found. I can certainly see with a reasonable mind how Libby would want to clear the record.
Yea yea, Plame wasn't covert. That doesn't mean there was no crime. Outing her identity exposed the entire CIA front company too. Were any of those agents covert? I guess we don't know yet. The fact that they appointed a Federal prosecutor to investigate makes me believe a crime was probably committed. If Plame was not covert, and that guaranteed outing her ID was not a crime, it would take 10 minutes to figure that out. Not 2 years.There is no evidence she was covert and Fitzgerald went out of his way to NOT say she was covert. That is widely known now so why do you continue to use that descriptive of her position at the CIA? She was an aynalist and like most at the CIA her role there was "classified", a very big difference.
Binary_Digit said:Yea yea, Wilson lied about who sent him to Niger. Has anyone considered that he might have done that to keep his wife's identity secret? :shock: Wilson did NOT lie about what he found in Niger, that's really the only important thing when it comes to his credibility.
Libby wanted to clear the record how? By refuting Wilson's claims about Iraq intelligence or by destroying his wife's career?
Yea yea, Plame wasn't covert. That doesn't mean there was no crime. Outing her identity exposed the entire CIA front company too. Were any of those agents covert? I guess we don't know yet. The fact that they appointed a Federal prosecutor to investigate makes me believe a crime was probably committed. If Plame was not covert, and that guaranteed outing her ID was not a crime, it would take 10 minutes to figure that out. Not 2 years.
Stinger said:He was chief-of-staff, he could very well have "done this" on his own. Wilson was selling a phoney story, I bet you fell for it, and falsely stating who sent him on the mission and what he found. I can certainly see with a reasonable mind how Libby would want to clear the record.
There is no evidence she was covert and Fitzgerald went out of his way to NOT say she was covert. That is widely known now so why do you continue to use that descriptive of her position at the CIA? She was an aynalist and like most at the CIA her role there was "classified", a very big difference.
It was and it was. Don't you believe they had a duty to let the American people know Wilson was lying?
And it ended up Wilson was lying that the administration was correct.
Quote:
Cheney is the actual president
Me>> And with that you just proved how trivial your arguements are.
Sophmoric statements such as the one you posted show how trivial your arguements really are.
Not sour at all and encourage you to raise the level of your debate so we can continue else suggest you post over on the AOL chatrooms. I really have no time for such trivial arguements such as "Bush is dumb".
Well how about a few examples.
Stinger said:You mean rebut your trivial arguements, yes I don seem to be able to do that with ease.
This is a debating forum, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
As far as exposing the fraud she and her husband were trying to commit on the American people, do you think they shoul have been allowed to do this or should it have been exposed? As far as Libby, if he committed perjury by purposely lying to a grand jury to obstruct justice then he has a BIG problem for which he will have to pay.
You mean the CIA referral to the DOJ, pretty standard and happens often so that alone doesn't mean much.
Which is why I so easily refute what you say which you get from Air America?
kal-el said:A phoney story? Dude, get over yourself, you're depositing asinine claims without substantiation here.
Instead...................
Don't try to turn this around. Wilson wasn't lying.
What? You're presenting strawman fallacies here buddy :lol: . The administration was correct? About what, pry tell? Wilson wasn't lying.
Did I ever say Bush is dumb?
You are either so ignorant of this case, or so dishonest that you blatanly misinterpret and then wrongly misrepresent it. Dude
, can you get it through your thick skull- Joe Wilson wasn't lying.
What? Iraq was getting uranium from Niger? Good luck trying to prove that :lol: .
The CIA and IAEA had said the "Niger documents" were indeed bad forgeries, but what did Bush do?
He used them in his 2003 state of the union address.
:lol: Dude, one just has to read your posts on this subject. However since you seem to be narrow-minded and obtuse, it is indeed wishful thinking to assert that in any way, shape or form, Wilson was a blasphemer.
aps said:YAWN. Oh, Stinger, you are just so much better than I am. There are good debaters and not-so-good debaters. You refuse to see anything other than your opinion, which is a not-so-good debater in my eyes.
I know that is petty, but I can't help that it bothers me.
Hoot said:Whether or not Wilson lied is the 'bait and switch' tactic so often used by the right.
Wilson's 'supposed' lying is not the issue.
The issue is the outing of a classifed CIA agent as an act of political revenge...in otherwords, treason against the U.S.
Stinger said:Aps when you want to debate issues and facts let me know. I really have no time for your sophomoric rants. I presented facts, you did not rebut them, they still stand. If you can't support your positions with honest debate I suggest you not try to engage in such. All you have posted are personal invectives which do not substitute for factual debate. Sorry your preconcieved notions are so easy to shoot down but facts are facts.
Yes it is petty.
Hoot said:Whether or not Wilson lied is the 'bait and switch' tactic so often used by the right.
Wilson's 'supposed' lying is not the issue.
The issue is the outing of a classifed CIA agent as an act of political revenge...in otherwords, treason against the U.S.
Donkey1499 said:Then what was Wilson and his wife doing on the cover of Vanity Fair before thsi BS happened? She leaked herself.