Ronald Reagan.... Good or Bad?

[American]

I was there and know that Reagan was a terrible president for our country. If it were not for Reagan, we would not still be dependent on Middle East wars for our energy needs. If it were not for Reagan and his deregulation of air pollution, we would have had fewer cases of skin cancer, and not be faced with Global warming that threatens future life on the planet. If it were not for Reagan, we would not have trippled our national debt. If it were not for Reagan we would not have been doing business with corrupt governments, including helping Saddam Hussein stay in power and supplying him with components needed to gas his own people. Reagan even removed Iraq from the listing of states that supported terrorism.

You might have been there, but doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Middle East policy of the US has been about the same for the last 50 years, almost unchanged. Oil has always been the central issue, and our policy on oil can be read in Carter's SOTU speech, now known as the Carter Doctrine.

"

Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.
​

"

This wasn't started by Reagan, nor ended by Reagan; or any other President since. It is still the policy under Obama, and don't you forget it. Now conservative worth his salt would say Reagan was lousy, so you are not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination. BTW, even Buchanan (a different kind of conservative) supported Reagan.

 

[Catawba]

I wished you'd stop masquerading as a conservative.

I am a true conservative, I believe in conserving our resources and environment for future generations.

 

[American]

I am a true conservative, I believe in conserving our resources and environment for future generations.

 

[Catawba]

You might have been there, but doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Middle East policy of the US has been about the same for the last 50 years, almost unchanged. Oil has always been the central issue, and our policy on oil can be read in Carter's SOTU speech, now known as the Carter Doctrine.

"

Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.
​

"

The part you chose to quote described the current situation at the time. This was Carter's plan for the future:

"Energy will be the immediate test of our ability to unite this Nation, and it can also be the standard around which we rally. On the battlefield of energy we can win for our Nation a new confidence, and we can seize control again of our common destiny.

In little more than two decades we've gone from a position of energy independence to one in which almost half the oil we use comes from foreign countries, at prices that are going through the roof. Our excessive dependence on OPEC has already taken a tremendous tool on our economy and our people. This is the direct cause of the long lines which have made millions of you spend aggravating hours waiting for gasoline. It's a cause of the increased inflation and unemployment that we now face. This intolerable dependence on foreign oil threatens our economic independence and the very security of our Nation.

The energy crisis is real. It is worldwide. It is a clear and present danger to our Nation. These are facts and we simply must face them.

What I have to say to you now about energy is simple and vitally important.

Point one: I am tonight setting a clear goal for the energy policy of the United States. Beginning this moment, this Nation will never use more foreign oil than we did in 1977 -- never. From now on, every new addition to our demand for energy will be met from our own production and our own conservation. The generation-long growth in our dependence on foreign oil will be stopped dead in its tracks right now and then reversed as we move through the 1980's, for I am tonight setting the further goal of cutting our dependence on foreign oil by one-half by the end of the next decade -- a saving of over 4 1/2 million barrels of imported oil per day.

Jimmy Carter's malaise speech - Encyclopedia of Earth

This wasn't started by Reagan, nor ended by Reagan; or any other President since. It is still the policy under Obama, and don't you forget it. Now conservative worth his salt would say Reagan was lousy, so you are not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination. BTW, even Buchanan (a different kind of conservative) supported Reagan.

Reagan discontinued the programs for sustainable energy sources and said to party like it was 1949!

Another conservative said it best last year,

"Jimmy Carter "was right" when he called for a massive program of energy conservation and alternative energy research." - Sen John Warner (R).
John Warner: Jimmy Carter Was Right

 

[Catawba]

Originally Posted by Catawba
I am a true conservative, I believe in conserving our resources and environment for future generations.
[/QUOTE]

Foreign concept for you huh?

 

[Z3n]

Kind of like how im a real "libertarian"(to the same vein of Chomsky) and not this new neo-libertarian bull**** that praises the free market as God in economic form.

 

[UtahBill]

Ok, you got me, founding fathers is what I was referring to. What is equitable about people not paying any taxes and the top 10 percent paying 60 percent of the tax burden? I don't have a lot of use for class envy nor your insinuations. This has to be an act for no one can be this dumb. Unfunded tax cuts? LOL, tax cuts aren't an expense.

Yes, they are, when you tax less and spend more, someone has to pay eventually......

 

[UtahBill]

Your "chosen one" has cost this country more than Reagan and Bush combined yet not a word from you. Just goes to show exactly what kind of person you really are and it isn't a pretty sight.

The OP is about Reagan, not those who came later.....one bad apple is not excused by another..

 

[Conservative]

Yes, they are, when you tax less and spend more, someone has to pay eventually......

Wrong, new tax payers are created as unemployment drops to produce the products the increased demand generates thanks to tax cuts.

Even if you cut the rates in half which is never happened and create another taxpayer the tax revenue is the same. Not a difficult concept to understand except by liberals who are incapable of using logic, common sense, and even basic math.

What actually happens is small rate cuts increase more taxpayers paying the new rates on taxes and that compensates for any individual taxpayer who was paying the higher rates getting to keep more of what they earn.

 

[UtahBill]

Wrong, new tax payers are created as unemployment drops to produce the products the increased demand generates thanks to tax cuts.

Even if you cut the rates in half which is never happened and create another taxpayer the tax revenue is the same. Not a difficult concept to understand except by liberals who are incapable of using logic, common sense, and even basic math.

What actually happens is small rate cuts increase more taxpayers paying the new rates on taxes and that compensates for any individual taxpayer who was paying the higher rates getting to keep more of what they earn.

Wow, someone has been hitting the GOP koolaid a bit hard....
I suppose your scenario is limitless? It can go on forever? It won't crash and burn?
Why not go to a 1% flat tax? That will create tons of new taxpayers, right?

 

[Conservative]

Wow, someone has been hitting the GOP koolaid a bit hard....
I suppose your scenario is limitless? It can go on forever? It won't crash and burn?
Why not go to a 1% flat tax? That will create tons of new taxpayers, right?

Because we have a bloated Federal Bureaucracy that requires higher taxes than 1%

You just don't get it and seem to be the one drinking the Kool-Aid. It is the taxpayer's money first and letting them keep more of it creates jobs.

Tell me how much in taxes do the unemployed pay? If you don't grow employment which we are not doing now and the govt. keeps spending money the deficit is going to continue to grow like it is now.

I don't understand people like you. Tell me how the govt. tax revenue doubled during the Reagan years with a 25% tax cut? Can't wait to hear this answer.

 

[UtahBill]

Because we have a bloated Federal Bureaucracy that requires higher taxes than 1%

You just don't get it and seem to be the one drinking the Kool-Aid. It is the taxpayer's money first and letting them keep more of it creates jobs.

Tell me how much in taxes do the unemployed pay? If you don't grow employment which we are not doing now and the govt. keeps spending money the deficit is going to continue to grow like it is now.

I don't understand people like you. Tell me how the govt. tax revenue doubled during the Reagan years with a 25% tax cut? Can't wait to hear this answer.

Smoke and mirrors....
IOW, the numbers were fudged.
I agree that we need to grow employment, but we also need to have confidence in Wall Street and our govt. Right now, we don't have that confidence. People who HAVE money are not spending it as freely as they did before the latest crash. And anyone who can read or watch TV news is learning that Wall street is the new face of organized crime, operating with the support of congress. Old rules of economics are not as valid as they used to be. Every time the greedy among us devise a new way to skim/scam the public, our nation's economic rules have to be revised.
Reagan was motivated by the old idea that communism must be killed at any cost.
That deed is partially done, thanks to RR the liberal turned conservative (WTF?), but we paid a huge price and will continue to pay it under the current idea that we must spread the gospel of democracy to the rest of the world, again at any cost....

 

[Conservative]

UtahBill;1058538037]Smoke and mirrors....
IOW, the numbers were fudged.

Tell that to the checkbook of the U.S. that they are doing it with smoke and mirrors. Apparently the only time the U.S. Treasury is right is when a Democrat is in the WH, right?

I agree that we need to grow employment, but we also need to have confidence in Wall Street and our govt. Right now, we don't have that confidence. People who HAVE money are not spending it as freely as they did before the latest crash. And anyone who can read or watch TV news is learning that Wall street is the new face of organized crime, operating with the support of congress. Old rules of economics are not as valid as they used to be. Every time the greedy among us devise a new way to skim/scam the public, our nation's economic rules have to be revised.

Tell me how much in taxes the unemployed pay? The greedy among us are a small percentage of the population and to focus on them is disengenous

Reagan was motivated by the old idea that communism must be killed at any cost.
That deed is partially done, thanks to RR the liberal turned conservative (WTF?), but we paid a huge price and will continue to pay it under the current idea that we must spread the gospel of democracy to the rest of the world, again at any cost....

Reagan killed Communism and left Clinton with a peace dividend. I don't see democratic countries killing each other and having citizens blowing themselves up in crowded market places. This is about U.S. peace and security. Radical Islam wants you dead and will do it given the chance. The only thing these animals understand is force.

 

[ADK_Forever]

I am a true conservative, I believe in conserving our resources and environment for future generations.

Kudos to you Catawba. If all Conservatives were as honest as you we would have much less political turmoil and obstruction in Washington these days. Now, if all true Conservatives, such as yourself, would only band together and kick those neo-cons and extreme right wing tea party Conservatives to the curb, we could get on with governing our country in a true bi-partisan manner.

 

[UtahBill]

Tell that to the checkbook of the U.S. that they are doing it with smoke and mirrors. Apparently the only time the U.S. Treasury is right is when a Democrat is in the WH, right?



Tell me how much in taxes the unemployed pay? The greedy among us are a small percentage of the population and to focus on them is disengenous



Reagan killed Communism and left Clinton with a peace dividend. I don't see democratic countries killing each other and having citizens blowing themselves up in crowded market places. This is about U.S. peace and security. Radical Islam wants you dead and will do it given the chance. The only thing these animals understand is force.

Clinton left a surplus and Bush spent it on war.....blah, blah, blah....

 

[Conservative]

Clinton left a surplus and Bush spent it on war.....blah, blah, blah....

So I am told, too bad he used SS to do that. Do you think it is right to use SS funds to pay for on budget items?

I also understand that some people have a very short memory. Tell me how you would have paid for 9/11?

 

[Conservative]

Clinton left a surplus and Bush spent it on war.....blah, blah, blah....

You really need to stop listening to the leftwing kooks for that creates guilt by association. The Iraq War cost about 100 billion a year out of a 2.6 trillion budget. Where did the rest of the deficit come from? Also the question that really needs to be asked is do you believe the Govt. needs the money more than the taxpayer that was forced to give it to them?

Interesting dealing with economically challenged individuals.

 

[UtahBill]

So I am told, too bad he used SS to do that. Do you think it is right to use SS funds to pay for on budget items?

I also understand that some people have a very short memory. Tell me how you would have paid for 9/11?

I would have had Saudi Arabia pay for it, as most of the terrorists came from there. If they refused to pay, there would have been about 3000 cruise missles dedicated to select targets in SA, 10 a day until they paid up.....
And I would not have started a second front in Iraq just to get even with the guy who wanted my daddy dead.

 

[Conservative]

I would have had Saudi Arabia pay for it, as most of the terrorists came from there. If they refused to pay, there would have been about 3000 cruise missles dedicated to select targets in SA, 10 a day until they paid up.....
And I would not have started a second front in Iraq just to get even with the guy who wanted my daddy dead.

Of course you would have as you didn't read the 9/11 report and apparently have no interest in accuracy.

You can relive the reasons for going into Iraq until hell freezes over but that isn't going to change a thing. Facts do not seem to matter to ideologues. Get over your Bush Derangement Syndrome and recognize the empty suit in the WH is creating more harm and damage than Bush ever created.

How does it feel having a President today that has adopted the Bush foreign policy?

 

[UtahBill]

Of course you would have as you didn't read the 9/11 report and apparently have no interest in accuracy.

You can relive the reasons for going into Iraq until hell freezes over but that isn't going to change a thing. Facts do not seem to matter to ideologues. Get over your Bush Derangement Syndrome and recognize the empty suit in the WH is creating more harm and damage than Bush ever created.

How does it feel having a President today that has adopted the Bush foreign policy?

So you deny that SA citizens were the perpetrators of 9/11? That is some powerful koolaid you are drinking. THe shrub used 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam....his own people said so.
The emptiest suit to ever reside in the WH is the shrub. NOT ONE accomplishment on his own, ever. Daddy and his cronies did it all for him.
And I voted for the little prick.....as I voted for McCain. All we get to choose from anymore is the lesser of 2 weasels....

 

[Conservative]

So you deny that SA citizens were the perpetrators of 9/11? That is some powerful koolaid you are drinking. THe shrub used 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam....his own people said so.
The emptiest suit to ever reside in the WH is the shrub. NOT ONE accomplishment on his own, ever. Daddy and his cronies did it all for him.
And I voted for the little prick.....as I voted for McCain. All we get to choose from anymore is the lesser of 2 weasels....

Nope, didn't deny it at all. What did the 911 Commission say about that?

No, Bush didn't use 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam Hussein. Not sure where you get your information but it is making you look and sound like a kook.

Your opinion regarding Bush being the emptiest suit in the WH considering what is there now. Your hatred of Bush is a sickness, seek help.

See my avitar, that is how the troops view Bush and that is good enough for me. I had three family members in Iraq and all came home saying we did the right thing. Why would I not believe them and believe the kooks that are incapable of seeing a threat tomorrow until it becomes a threat today.

 

[Conservative]

So you deny that SA citizens were the perpetrators of 9/11? That is some powerful koolaid you are drinking. THe shrub used 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam....his own people said so.
The emptiest suit to ever reside in the WH is the shrub. NOT ONE accomplishment on his own, ever. Daddy and his cronies did it all for him.
And I voted for the little prick.....as I voted for McCain. All we get to choose from anymore is the lesser of 2 weasels....

This is right out of the 9/11 Report

• The Saudi government did not fund the 19 hijackers.
• Relatives of bin Laden were not allowed to fly out of the country until after air traffic was allowed to move freely after it was grounded following the attacks. Moreover, those family members had no connection to the terrorist plot.
• Bush did not know about the specific threat beforehand

Read the entire report starting with the executive study

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Exec.pdf

 

[UtahBill]

Nope, didn't deny it at all. What did the 911 Commission say about that?

No, Bush didn't use 9/11 as an excuse to go after Saddam Hussein. Not sure where you get your information but it is making you look and sound like a kook.

Your opinion regarding Bush being the emptiest suit in the WH considering what is there now. Your hatred of Bush is a sickness, seek help.

See my avitar, that is how the troops view Bush and that is good enough for me. I had three family members in Iraq and all came home saying we did the right thing. Why would I not believe them and believe the kooks that are incapable of seeing a threat tomorrow until it becomes a threat today.

and there are families of dead servicemen who have doubts that their children died for a good reason....
IF Bush was such a good man, why did he hide behind daddy during Vietnam?
The DEMS won, and Bush's involvement in Iraq is part of the reason. Get over it...

 

[Conservative]

and there are families of dead servicemen who have doubts that their children died for a good reason....
IF Bush was such a good man, why did he hide behind daddy during Vietnam?
The DEMS won, and Bush's involvement in Iraq is part of the reason. Get over it...

Look, dealing with people like you is a waste of time. This isn't about Bush, Vietnam, or anything else in the past, this is about a hatred that you have developed out of your own ignorance and the mess the Democrats are making today of our economy.

Yes, Democrats won and the country continues to lose. Over 3.4 million jobs lost in the last year, deficits in the first 2 years of Obama exceed 8 years of Reagan and next year's deficits added will exceed the 8 years of Bush but by all means continue to blame Bush, focus on his military service, focus on distorted information you have received from leftwing sources. Guess that makes you feel good even though it makes you look and sound foolish.

Nothing I say including facts I can provide is going to change your mind. It really is a shame that ignorance rules in your world and you simply cannot get over that hatred.

 

[UtahBill]

Look, dealing with people like you is a waste of time. This isn't about Bush, Vietnam, or anything else in the past, this is about a hatred that you have developed out of your own ignorance and the mess the Democrats are making today of our economy.

Yes, Democrats won and the country continues to lose. Over 3.4 million jobs lost in the last year, deficits in the first 2 years of Obama exceed 8 years of Reagan and next year's deficits added will exceed the 8 years of Bush but by all means continue to blame Bush, focus on his military service, focus on distorted information you have received from leftwing sources. Guess that makes you feel good even though it makes you look and sound foolish.

Nothing I say including facts I can provide is going to change your mind. It really is a shame that ignorance rules in your world and you simply cannot get over that hatred.

Look, dealing with people like you is a waste of time. This isn't about Bush, Vietnam, or anything else in the past, this is about a blind devotion you have for all things GOP, and an equally blind hatred of all things DEM.
You focus on distorted information you have received from rightwing sources. Guess that makes you feel good even though it makes you look and sound gullible.

Nothing I say including facts I can provide is going to change your mind. It really is a shame that ignorance rules in your world and you simply cannot get over that hatred.

There, see how easy it is.....:2wave: