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Ronald Reagan.... Good or Bad?

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Yossarian

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Wrong, I disagree, the conditions at the time warranted what he did. Would you have supported Iran

Haha, no, of course not! But that's exactly what Reagan was doing - supporting them! He authorised arms sales to Iran. I take it, then, that you fully support Iran in this instance. Or maybe, you just didn't know what 'Iran-Contra' was.

"Conditions at the time?" Oh, please. You are being hopelessly vague.

The war between Afghanistan and Russia was going on and thus the conditions at that time justified the actions.

Wrong.

"What's more important: a few pissed-off Muslims or the fall of the Soviet empire?" - Z. Brzezinski. I guess we now know the right answer to what was probably meant as a rhetorical question.

I had a friend in Grenada that disagrees with you and was saved by our troops.

There you go again! Letting personal judgements cloud the issues at hand. Let's talk in terms of nation-building and needless foreign interference, instead of basing judgement on the predicament of your friend.

There was no mass reduction in the median income during the Reagan years. My income doubled.

Your income doubled? Wow. You really are doing a great job of validating what I was initially suggesting - that you can't see beyond your personal experience. The median income dropped $20,000 under Reagan. So did GDP growth per capita, by the way.

SDI bankrupted the Soviet Union and helped end the cold war leaving Clinton a peace dividend.[*]

It also caused the collapse of the Soviet Union in a way that continues to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the Russians, whilst also totally ignoring GOrbachev's overtures of peace during this period.

Supporting the Contras was good statemanship

lolno. Do some research, moron.

Yes, it was, wasting money in a world bureaucracy that never solves any problems is always good statesmanship and smart use of taxpayer money

Well, it's never going to solve problems when confronted by an attitude like yours, or his. A self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.

I would gladly take the 1.7 trillion Reagan added to the debt vs. what we have today and what Obama is doing[/LIST]

I'm not even going to bother with this one. :roll: Please, try to stay on topic , and stop distracting from the issue at hand.

Your revision of history and coping things from leftwing websites is what really is staggering and absolutely wrong. I along with millions of Americans benefited from the Reagan Economy. You probably weren't alive or old enough during the Reagan years to even understand what you are talking about.


Reagan understood the American people, something you apparently haven't a clue about. He empowered people, not the govt. He empowered private industry not govt. bureaucrats. He doubled economic growth, federal revenue, and added over 22 million jobs to the economy. He is to this day revered by a large majority in this country much to the chagrin of big govt. liberals.


The Reagan years will be remembered as the years when millions benefitted, but millions more suffered. The rest of what you said here is worthless, subjective and inaccurate drivel. Have a nice day. :2wave:
 
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Conservative

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Haha, no, of course not! But that's exactly what Reagan was doing - supporting them! He authorised arms sales to Iran. I take it, then, that you fully support Iran in this instance. Or maybe, you just didn't know what 'Iran-Contra' was.

"Conditions at the time?" Oh, please. You are being hopelessly vague.



Wrong.

"What's more important: a few pissed-off Muslims or the fall of the Soviet empire?" - Z. Brzezinski. I guess we now know the right answer to what was probably meant as a rhetorical question.



There you go again! Letting personal judgements cloud the issues at hand. Let's talk in terms of nation-building and needless foreign interference, instead of basing judgement on the predicament of your friend.



Your income doubled? Wow. You really are doing a great job of validating what I was initially suggesting - that you can't see beyond your personal experience. The median income dropped $20,000 under Reagan. So did GDP growth per capita, by the way.



It also caused the collapse of the Soviet Union in a way that continues to leave a bad taste in the mouth of the Russians, whilst also totally ignoring GOrbachev's overtures of peace during this period.



lolno. Do some research, moron.



Well, it's never going to solve problems when confronted by an attitude like yours, or his. A self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.



I'm not even going to bother with this one. :roll: Please, try to stay on topic , and stop distracting from the issue at hand.




The Reagan years will be remembered as the years when millions benefitted, but millions more suffered. The rest of what you said here is worthless, subjective and inaccurate drivel. Have a nice day. :2wave:

I am not even going to bother to respond as I see you as completely hopeless. I do suggest you get the unbiased, non partisan facts from BEA.gov so you stop making a fool out of yourself.

I will correct my statement above, the arms that went to Iran went to a group outside the govt. and there is no proof that Reagan knew of the transfer of weapons to free hostages. Reagan like a good leader however took full responsibility for that which he did not know about. Refreshing leadership that seems to have escaped Clinton and Obama.

Please give us your experiences during the Reagan years as I gave you mine? I contend yours is second hand information whereas I lived and worked during that era. Your personal attacks however are duly noted
 
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Yossarian

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I will correct my statement above, the arms that went to Iran went to a group outside the govt. and there is no proof that Reagan knew of the transfer of weapons to free hostages. Reagan like a good leader however took full responsibility for that which he did not know about. Refreshing leadership that seems to have escaped Clinton and Obama.

'Plausible deniability' - it's a wonderful thing, right?

Please give us your experiences during the Reagan years as I gave you mine? I contend yours is second hand information whereas I lived and worked during that era. Your personal attacks however are duly noted

I was born three years after Reagan left office. However, your insistence on the importance of this point is a personal attack in itself, since it seems to be, for you, the foundation of historical credibility, and because you attempt to undermine my sentiments based solely upon it. However, this has left me free to gather information on Reagan from a variety of sources and remain unbiased by personal experience. I am so sorry if this is such a problem for you.

:2wave:
 
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'Plausible deniability' - it's a wonderful thing, right?



I was born three years after Reagan left office. However, your insistence on the importance of this point is a personal attack in itself, since it seems to be, for you, the foundation of historical credibility, and because you attempt to undermine my sentiments based solely upon it. However, this has left me free to gather information on Reagan from a variety of sources and remain unbiased by personal experience. I am so sorry if this is such a problem for you.

:2wave:

It isn't a problem for me at all but it is a problem with you. Why such passion against someone you didn't even know or didn't live or work under? I find this a lot especially from people your age.

You read things in the media or sites that for some reason you want to believe and ignore the sites that are non partisan and unbiased. On economic issues go to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, bea.gov and get the facts about econmic growth and govt. revenue as well as expenses. To report numbers different from those is simply partisanship at its worst.

You haven't a clue as to the shape of the economy that Reagan inherited. You read that things are bad now? Try double digit inflation and double digit interest rates. Try buying a home at those interest rates, prime rate 19 percent!! There was malaise in this country like you have never seen before and rising unemployment. In a word the country was a mess and the people knew it.

Reagan took office and got a 25% income tax cut over three years that passed in August 1981. The first 10% generated some benefit in 1982. That started to help but when there was a lot of damage done by the Carter economy to a lot of people so the real benefits kicked in in 1983 when unemployment started dropping. By the end of the Reagan years, BLS shows 22 million new jobs created and a 5.2% interest rate. Economic growth, GDP doubled during the Reagan years as did Govt. tax revenue that benefited from those 22 million new jobs that offset the rate cuts.

People felt good about themselves and about their country. Reagan empowered the American worker as well as the Private sector. Where you got the median income dropping is beyond me. Cite your source and remember 81-83 were recovery periods of time.
 

Lucy Goosey

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Ronald Reagan was a Great man....I like watching old speeches when he says "lets win one for the Gipper";)
 

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Yes, the economy under James Earl Carter was just wonderful, wasn't it?

Go back a few more years....back when we were a creditor nation instead of a debtor nation, back when Wall Street was run by fewer crooks, and politicians weren't quite so corrupt....
 

b.larset

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GREAT posts everyone. This is definetly a touchy subject and adds to the already spirited and ,"LIVED ",passions . FDR and Reagan both pose an interesting contrast. I see FDR as the Progressive hero on the left (Governments Role). I see Ronald Reagan as the progressive Hero on the right ( Free Market Role). Both were progressives, In their prospective Ideologies. Both have schools of thought around achievments they had during their terms. And now with Reagan( Conservative Progressiveism) a new set of
Arguments about the role of government in modern society is emerging given the Large role government has taken with the stimulus during the, : " Great Recession of the new Millenium". What do you think?
 
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Catawba

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" Great Recession of the new Millenium".

Which was brought about by the very policies Reagan promoted, tax cuts for the wealthy, large debts and deregulation.
 

Conservative

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Good Point.

Good point? The record is quite different. I have posted the actual factual record. Some want to focus on the 1.7 trillion debt but ignore how that debt was created. Congress was Democratically controlled and Congress spends the money. Congress saw all that revenue coming into the treasury and spent it. Most were attached to economic bills that had to be passed to get us out of the Carter initiated recession. Reagan wanted the line item veto but didn't get it.

Simple facts confuse some Reagan haters almost as badly as those with BDS.

Instead of ignoring the good that he did they make wild claims that aren't based upon facts. The best place to go to get the facts is bea.gov. Check out economic growth and tax revenue to the govt. That site is non partisan and destroys those with RDS, Reagan Derangement Syndrome.
 

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Good Point.

Here is the GDP growth during the 80's. You do understand what GDP is, right?BEA.gov

1980 1988
1 GDP 2,788.1 4,736.4

Current tax receipts 585.6 1,018.9

Cannot get this to format correctly but in 1980 GDP was 2788.1 and in 1988 the GDP was 4736.4 trillion

Current tax receipts in 1980 was 585.6 Billion and at the end of 1988 the tax revenue was 1018.9 trillion

Now someone has to explain to me how you can cut taxes 25% and almost double GDP and tax revenue? Come on Reagan haters?
 
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Lucy Goosey

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Ronald Reagan was a good President, when I was 10 I had a really big crush on him as President and I wrote the White House telling him how my school class had a mock election and that I voted for him. Ronald Reagan wrote me back on white house paper and also sent me a glossy of himself. I really love Ronald Reagan no President has been as good since Ronald Reagan....although I wouldn't mind Mitt Romeny or Ron Paul for our next President. Also Ronald Reagan was a good actor too.
 

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Odd, isn't it, that conservatives are typically against conserving anything except their positions of power?

What position of power do Conservatives have today? Have you checked the results of liberals in power?

Are you ever going to hold liberals accountable for the results they generate? Congress has been under liberal control for the past three years and this past year they have a super majority in the Senate and massive majority in the House and a leftwing President cheering them on. Republicans have NO power yet Obama cannot even sell his majority party but for some reason it is the Republican's fault, :spin:
 

ADK_Forever

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What position of power do Conservatives have today? Have you checked the results of liberals in power?

Are you ever going to hold liberals accountable for the results they generate? Congress has been under liberal control for the past three years and this past year they have a super majority in the Senate and massive majority in the House and a leftwing President cheering them on. Republicans have NO power yet Obama cannot even sell his majority party but for some reason it is the Republican's fault, :spin:

They have enough power to obstruct every meaningful bill that Congress and the Senate try to pass. The Dems need to stop waiting for that bi-partisan support and push bills thru. The Repukes have no intention of helping the Dems and Obama to create anything they can hold up as a trophy for the next election.

Should be interesting what the Obstructionists do when the Dems start putting bills in front of the Repukes on issues that they support. Will they still filibuster themselves into history? They have more filibusters in the past one year than there was in the 50's and 60's combined.

I know more and more life long Republicans who have started voting for Dems, if not actually changed their party of registration. They may have the biggest and nastiest mouths but, they are destroying their own party. And they're too consumed with hate to see it.
 

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ADK_Forever;1058540771]They have enough power to obstruct every meaningful bill that Congress and the Senate try to pass. The Dems need to stop waiting for that bi-partisan support and push bills thru. The Repukes have no intention of helping the Dems and Obama to create anything they can hold up as a trophy for the next election.

Not surprising, you haven't a clue how our Congress works. The GOP can stop nothing the Democrats want. Obama cannot even sell his own party, only cult followers like you.

I can see it now, the 2012 Presidential Campaign, Obama, "I inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression" and the minions and army of Obama youth will ignore the fact that the economy he inherited would be his own and continue their chant, "Obama! Obama! Obama! Change, change, change we can believe in!" "Obama, Obama, Obama!!"
 

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Not surprising, you haven't a clue how our Congress works. The GOP can stop nothing the Democrats want. Obama cannot even sell his own party, only cult followers like you.

I can see it now, the 2012 Presidential Campaign, Obama, "I inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression" and the minions and army of Obama youth will ignore the fact that the economy he inherited would be his own and continue their chant, "Obama! Obama! Obama! Change, change, change we can believe in!" "Obama, Obama, Obama!!"

Dems don't have a super majority anymore.....
Tell us, oh great one, what wonderful things the GOP accomplished when it had the majority.....besides tax cuts for the rich....:(
 

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Dems don't have a super majority anymore.....
Tell us, oh great one, what wonderful things the GOP accomplished when it had the majority.....besides tax cuts for the rich....:(

Does it matter? I have given you the sites for the actual numbers but you refuse to go there. As for the tax cuts, do you pay taxes? Do you even have a job? If so you got a tax cut just like the ones that pay most of the taxes.

Now you can continue to spout the DNC rhetoric and look stupid or you can get the facts, think for a change, and actually establish some credibility. Your choice. Isn't choice great?
 

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Does it matter? I have given you the sites for the actual numbers but you refuse to go there. As for the tax cuts, do you pay taxes? Do you even have a job? If so you got a tax cut just like the ones that pay most of the taxes.

Now you can continue to spout the DNC rhetoric and look stupid or you can get the facts, think for a change, and actually establish some credibility. Your choice. Isn't choice great?

Yes, I pay substantial taxes, on my retirement income. Job? My job is spending the money that doesn't go for taxes. I don't mind. Uncle Sam has done a lot for me. Before he let me in his Navy, I was a poor boy with no place to call home. DNC rhetoric is no more or no less opinionated that GOP rhetoric.
As for credibility, whence cometh yours?
 

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Yes, I pay substantial taxes, on my retirement income. Job? My job is spending the money that doesn't go for taxes. I don't mind. Uncle Sam has done a lot for me. Before he let me in his Navy, I was a poor boy with no place to call home. DNC rhetoric is no more or no less opinionated that GOP rhetoric.
As for credibility, whence cometh yours?

Great, then if you aren't paying enough in taxes write a check and send in more. My credibility comes from objectivity and actual results, not buying the rhetoric I am told. Facts confuse a lot of liberals. It is one thing to be patriotic but what Obama is doing has nothing to do with patriotism but everything to do with changing the country that you served and defended.
 

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Great, then if you aren't paying enough in taxes write a check and send in more. My credibility comes from objectivity and actual results, not buying the rhetoric I am told. Facts confuse a lot of liberals. It is one thing to be patriotic but what Obama is doing has nothing to do with patriotism but everything to do with changing the country that you served and defended.

So, you are a legend in your own mind....
You should run for public office. That is the true test for credibility, the votes you get, or don't get....
The OP is about Reagan, but you use this thread to tell us what we already know, you hate Obama.
 

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So, you are a legend in your own mind....
You should run for public office. That is the true test for credibility, the votes you get, or don't get....
The OP is about Reagan, but you use this thread to tell us what we already know, you hate Obama.

No, I hate Obama policies, not Obama. This thread is about the exact opposite of Obama, Ronald Reagan took over a country in much worse shape than Obama and turned it around by empowering people. Obama wants to empower unions and bureaucrats.

Obama is showing exactly what happens when people allow emotion to dictate their actions instead of logic and common sense. Reagan taught me to trust but verify. You continue to trust and ignore what can be verified. Don't know what motivates people like you but it certainly isn't facts.
 

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No, I hate Obama policies, not Obama. This thread is about the exact opposite of Obama, Ronald Reagan took over a country in much worse shape than Obama and turned it around by empowering people. Obama wants to empower unions and bureaucrats.

Obama is showing exactly what happens when people allow emotion to dictate their actions instead of logic and common sense. Reagan taught me to trust but verify. You continue to trust and ignore what can be verified. Don't know what motivates people like you but it certainly isn't facts.

IF you had an open mind, and reread all your posts, you would see that YOU are the one who is emotional about this. The country was not in much worse shape under Carter, anyone can see that. The current recession and housing fiasco is the worst thing since the great depression. We weren't fighting wars under Carter either. We had the Iran hostage situation and an oil crisis. Today is much worse. But you are all warm and comfy in your own closet and could care less about the direction we are going, as long as it goes good for you. I know lots of Republicans like you. You call yourself conservative, maybe even christian, but you don't know the meaning of either....
 

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IF you had an open mind, and reread all your posts, you would see that YOU are the one who is emotional about this. The country was not in much worse shape under Carter, anyone can see that. The current recession and housing fiasco is the worst thing since the great depression. We weren't fighting wars under Carter either. We had the Iran hostage situation and an oil crisis. Today is much worse. But you are all warm and comfy in your own closet and could care less about the direction we are going, as long as it goes good for you. I know lots of Republicans like you. You call yourself conservative, maybe even christian, but you don't know the meaning of either....

Really? How old were you when Carter was President? Think home interest rates of 20 percent shows a country in good shape and we are in worse shape now? How about your dollar being basically worthless then, oh, wait, that is happening now.

Your posts show a young individual who reads books but doesn't understand what he read. The actual facts are there for you to see and what those numbers led to. If things weren't that bad Carter would have gotten re-elected but didn't. Ask your textbooks why?

You and others are the ones emotional. You like Carter because of what you read now, Habitat for Humanity, but ignore the economic policy that created the mess that led to Reagan.

You are the one that actually ignores the Bush policies that created 5 trillion dollar GDP Growth and more tax revenue to the govt and paid for 9/11 and three major hurricanes along with fighting two wars to keep your butt safe.

You are the one that lives in another world where feelings trump facts and reality. One of these days you are going to realize how lucky you were to have Bush in the WH. Although we will never know, I do know that Reagan style economics which Bush would have implemented would have us out of this mess by nowl It took Reagan almost three years to get us out of the Carter mess and he did it by empowering people and the private sector. Three years from now we will be in a worse mess because of the massive growth of govt. and massive debt created without anything in the private sector to show for it.

I wish you and others like you would pay closer attention to what is actually going on instead of buying what you are reading from the press
 

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Not surprising, you haven't a clue how our Congress works. The GOP can stop nothing the Democrats want. Obama cannot even sell his own party, only cult followers like you.

I can see it now, the 2012 Presidential Campaign, Obama, "I inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression" and the minions and army of Obama youth will ignore the fact that the economy he inherited would be his own and continue their chant, "Obama! Obama! Obama! Change, change, change we can believe in!" "Obama, Obama, Obama!!"

What IS obvious is two things. 1) YOU don't know how Congress works and bills are passed. 2) You haven't been watching, or accepting, how the Repukes have been behaving for the last year.
 
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