Ron Paul: You're Not FREE if you Can't Secede from an Oppressive Government

[DA60]

 

[Fiddytree]

Ron Paul: the tacit secessionist.

 

[bonfire]

You can leave every other institution other than government. If you leave wal-mart, they wont wage ware against you. If you leave your friends, they wont take up arms against you. If you leave the government, they will initate civil war. You know, for your well being....

 

[Redress]

You can leave every other institution other than government. If you leave wal-mart, they wont wage ware against you. If you leave your friends, they wont take up arms against you. If you leave the government, they will initate civil war. You know, for your well being....

You are perfectly free to leave the government. Plenty of other countries you can move to. Let us know how that works out.

 

[bonfire]

You are perfectly free to leave the government. Plenty of other countries you can move to. Let us know how that works out.

Funny how the only way to escape government is to leave the entire country. If I want to leave wal-mart I walk out the door. If I want to leave friends I simply stop hanging out with them. Yet to leave the government I have to abandon my family, friends, job, home, ect. Doesn't seem like I have much freedom to leave compared to literally any other non-government organization.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Funny how the only way to escape government is to leave the entire country. If I want to leave wal-mart I walk out the door. If I want to leave friends I simply stop hanging out with them. Yet to leave the government I have to abandon my family, friends, job, home, ect. Doesn't seem like I have much freedom to leave compared to literally any other non-government organization.

Might I suggest a new home for you.

 

[Rainman05]

I didn't listen to the podcast because I can't right now, but if RP encourages seccession, then he kind of dropped the ball in my opinion.

What about bringing people together? And how does personal freedom metamorph itself into separation.

These aren't the feudal times anymore...

 

[spud_meister]

Every nation has the right to defend its territorial sovereignty.

 

[Redress]

Funny how the only way to escape government is to leave the entire country. If I want to leave wal-mart I walk out the door. If I want to leave friends I simply stop hanging out with them. Yet to leave the government I have to abandon my family, friends, job, home, ect. Doesn't seem like I have much freedom to leave compared to literally any other non-government organization.

Do you think there are no repercussions to the actions you take? There is and always will be repercussions to every action you take. Welcome to the real world.

 

[spud_meister]

Funny how the only way to escape government is to leave the entire country. If I want to leave wal-mart I walk out the door. If I want to leave friends I simply stop hanging out with them. Yet to leave the government I have to abandon my family, friends, job, home, ect. Doesn't seem like I have much freedom to leave compared to literally any other non-government organization.

So you're saying the better way is to force everyone to leave with you?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I didn't listen to the podcast because I can't right now, but if RP encourages seccession, then he kind of dropped the ball in my opinion.

What about bringing people together? And how does personal freedom metamorph itself into separation.

These aren't the feudal times anymore...

He didn't encourage it, he encouraged the state's right to do it. The reasoning behind that was if the states don't reserve the right to leave, then the federal government has absolute power over the states.

Look at it this way, which kind of marriage do you think would be better for both parties?
- One where they both voluntarily want to be with each other
- One where one dominates the other and can't leave no matter how abusive the marriage gets

If the federal government would actually have to worry about states leaving, it might actually attempt to represent their constituents.

 

[Redress]

He didn't encourage it, he encouraged the state's right to do it. The reasoning behind that was if the states don't reserve the right to leave, then the federal government has absolute power over the states.

Look at it this way, which kind of marriage do you think would be better for both parties?
- One where they both voluntarily want to be with each other
- One where one dominates the other and can't leave no matter how abusive the marriage gets

If the federal government would actually have to worry about states leaving, it might actually attempt to represent their constituents.

Question: are cities legally able to secede from a state? Think about that awhile...

 

[Fisher]

Question: are cities legally able to secede from a state? Think about that awhile...

West Virginia was allowed to secede from VA

 

[haymarket]

You are perfectly free to leave the government. Plenty of other countries you can move to. Let us know how that works out.

Exactly.

It is amazing how some people who profess to value LIBERTY will not exercise theirs by denying what they see as an oppressive government their continued residence in a nation that they have such serious differences with. If the Pilgrims had felt this way we would be eating burgers this Thursday and elementary school kids would not be drawing those pics with the people in big white collars and buckles on the hats. .

 

[Paul Austin]

West Virginia was allowed to secede from VA

That was pretty much gerrymandering, not seccession.

 

[jonny5]

Do those of you opposed to this not agree with the Declaration of Independence?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.-

 

[Caine]

You are perfectly free to leave the government. Plenty of other countries you can move to. Let us know how that works out.

So... what you are saying is....

The government owns all land within its borders.....not the people.....

 

[jonny5]

Exactly.

It is amazing how some people who profess to value LIBERTY will not exercise theirs by denying what they see as an oppressive government their continued residence in a nation that they have such serious differences with. If the Pilgrims had felt this way we would be eating burgers this Thursday and elementary school kids would not be drawing those pics with the people in big white collars and buckles on the hats. .

Secession, by definition, is not continued residence. Secession separates. When the southern states seceeded, they were no longer resident in the United states.

 

[Caine]

Question: are cities legally able to secede from a state? Think about that awhile...

Thats an ignorant question really.

The states were not formed by a group of cities coming together and crafting a weak state government while.

The UNITED S T A T E S was formed with the purpose of a weak central government and the individual states having the majority of the governing power.

It is no longer like that, we might as well just be " 'Merica " because the idea of what it means to be a state has been completely trashed. Why have states at all anymore?

 

[haymarket]

Secession, by definition, is not continued residence. Secession separates. When the southern states seceeded, they were no longer resident in the United states.

Except that they had no right or power to do so. Their actions were merely treason.

 

[Caine]

Do those of you opposed to this not agree with the Declaration of Independence?

I agree with that from the Declaration of Independence...

I believe currently anything that a state is going through with regards to the federal government falls under the category of "light and transient causes" which do not require. I would also say that no state is currently suffering a "long train of abuses and usurpations"


While I agree with the right of states to secede, I don't see how we have reached that level yet.

 

[Goshin]

If a given region (State) wishes to seceed, and a majority or supermajority of citizens within that state have voted to do so, does it not seem contrary to democracy and liberty to forbid them from doing it? Especially on pain of military action to prevent same.

If you oppose such secession now, would you have opposed the "secession" of the United States from the British Empire in 1776?


We have in the past been supportive of certain regions seceeding from a larger state elsewhere in the world (a former Soviet Republic/Russian Federation state), is it not hypocritical to deny that right to our own States?


I'm not saying that I FAVOR secession, but I have some serious reservations about forcibly keeping a State that wishes to seperate.

 

[Caine]

Except that they had no right or power to do so. Their actions were merely treason.

Says who?

Some establishment judge after the fact????

Thats like killing someone for passing gas, THEN making it an offense punishable by death to pass gas.

 

[Goshin]

Except that they had no right or power to do so. Their actions were merely treason.

So was our Revolution, which in a sense was "secession" from the British Empire.

 

[Goshin]

So you're saying the better way is to force everyone to leave with you?

Typically secession would not occur unless a large majority of people resident in a given State/region wished to seceed... so "forcing everyone to leave with you" is not really applicable if it is democratic and voluntary.