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Robert a Heinlein the greatest American science fiction author has been spurned by the media. I think it is because of his libertarian politics.

Hamish Howl

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A mod was kind enough to write to me:


"You cannot comment on moderator actions, attack moderation or attack a moderator (in the capacity of being a mod) "upstairs". There is one place and one place only where you are free to comment on moderation - https://debatepolitics.com/threads/forum-rules.28594/

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My reply:

I can and will comment on anything I like. ToS is your problem not mine. Ban me if like but stop sending me annoying emails.

This is gonna end well. I can sense it.
 

BitterPill

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That is not fascism that is history. You need to read the book again. I don't care if you don't agree with it just don't mischaracterize it.
Seriously, in a class on the History and Philosophy of Morals, personal introspection plays no part?

That is not a class. It is indoctrination.
 

OpportunityCost

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But of course Starship Troopers runs a poor second to Armor by John Steakley.

I mean, except one was written in 59 and the other in 84, stark difference in vision there.
 

Loulit01

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Furthermore:

At school, kids have a class called History and Philosophy of Morals, briefly and only partially adapted in the film. Professor Dubois (played by Michael Ironside in the screen) openly defends the use of violence and physical torture by the State. When a student tries to argue the contrary by saying that violence doesn’t solve anything, Dubois replies: “I’m sure that the founders of Carthage [an African city destroyed in the Punic Wars] would be glad to know that, since violence had settled their destinies rather thoroughly. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms” (in the film, this speech was adapted and uses the destruction of Hiroshima as an example). Dubois also has a priceless speech in which communism and Marx’s theories were carved out: “The Marxian definition of value is ridiculous. All the work one cares to add will not turn a mud pie into an apple tart; it remains a mud pie, value zero”.​

which seems more like blatant indoctrination than philosophy or anything else.

For me, it's a done deal, and it doesn't bother me you disagree.

After all, Ignorance is Virtue is my personal Trumpian motto, so I don't mind being wrong.


Idiots: Violence never solves anything.
Me: Tell that to the Carthaginians. Oh, wait...

Thanks, RAH
 

BitterPill

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Idiots: Violence never solves anything.
Me: Tell that to the Carthaginians. Oh, wait...

Thanks, RAH
Remember:

Note to self: Never employ reason, facts or logic in a discussion with someone who extols the virtue of ignorance.

If you don't mind me asking, what did the violence of sacking Carthage once, twice, thrice solve?
 

craig

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Seriously, in a class on the History and Philosophy of Morals, personal introspection plays no part?

That is not a class. It is indoctrination.
It is a civics class.
 

Hamish Howl

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Remember:

Note to self: Never employ reason, facts or logic in a discussion with someone who extols the virtue of ignorance.

If you don't mind me asking, what did the violence of sacking Carthage once, twice, thrice solve?

It solved loads of things for the Romans.
 

swing_voter

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A mod was kind enough to write to me:


"You cannot comment on moderator actions, attack moderation or attack a moderator (in the capacity of being a mod) "upstairs". There is one place and one place only where you are free to comment on moderation - https://debatepolitics.com/threads/forum-rules.28594/

Your account's access may be limited based on these actions. Please keep this in mind when posting or using our site. "

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My reply:

I can and will comment on anything I like. ToS is your problem not mine. Ban me if like but stop sending me annoying emails.


You sound like a 4 year old.



.
 

BitterPill

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It solved loads of things for the Romans.
Sadly, not everyone was Roman, and where are the Romans now?

They are an interesting and cautionary history lesson, but one that has left an impressive legacy in the West.
 

craig

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Pretending to be history and philosophy.
That's what civics is. Where did you take it?
Civic education is the study of the theoretical, political and practical aspects of citizenship, as well as its rights and duties.
 

BitterPill

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That's what civics is. Where did you take it?
Civic education is the study of the theoretical, political and practical aspects of citizenship, as well as its rights and duties.
Then why didn't it call itself a civics class, and what is a civics class other than indoctrination?
 
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BitterPill

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Don't ask me. Read the book and contribute.
And about your question on my civics education, I'm not sure, though I do remember pledging allegiance to the flag and learning about my country's birth back in kindergarten of all places. One episode including learning and singing Yankee Doodle Dandy whereupon I asked immediately afterward why the Dandy put a feather in his cap and called it macaroni.

She told me, "It's just a song, Malcolm." I think she was already sick of my incessant questions, so it took me forty years to stumble upon the answer.
 
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southwest88

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Wiki
While the phrase free love is often associated with promiscuity in the popular imagination, especially in reference to the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, historically the free-love movement has not advocated multiple sexual partners or short-term sexual relationships. Rather, it has argued that sexual relations that are freely entered into should not be regulated by law.


So according to Wiki the free love moments you're describing are not analogous to the free love and counter-culture movements of the 60s I was discussing.

The popular culture is what it is - it isn't an academic understanding, after all. It's a kind of near-mathematical flattening out (averaging) of the most salient tropes in media/news coverage, which itself tended to be fairly sanctimonious @ the time - in the 1960s & 1970s. If the mass media of the time had known enough to ask hard questions up front, we (the US, & the Vietnamese, & I suppose the World) could possibly have avoided a lot of hard knocks in SE Asia, especially VN, Cambodia, Laos, & nearby. The US military action in VN was very complicated, & hard to explain in any sensible way. That in & of itself generated a lot of problems for the US policymakers & military leadership - with domestic & international critics of the war.
 

Ouroboros

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I think it is dated and the predictions are not useful. All science fiction that shows the far future is just fantasy.


IMO even SF books with no predictive value may still be worthwhile because they capture something about the writer’s culture, but by coming at the subject matter from a different direction than would a realistic work.

I esteem a lot of Heinlein and Asimov but one reason they often don’t lend themselves to adaptation because both authors could be very talky and under characterized. When my book group read Harsh Mistress a while back, the only character everyone liked was the computer.

Today the religious Right doesn’t have a great deal of power to attack supposedly blasphemous works. But the Left might go after an adaptation of Stranger for toxic masculinity or something.

Philip Dick probably appeals more to adaptors because his characters are vigorous and easy to distinguish from each other, whether one can follow the plots or not. Martian Time Slip is an underrated Dick novel that’s very cinematic.
 
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