Robert a Heinlein the greatest American science fiction author has been spurned by the media. I think it is because of his libertarian politics.

[Loulit01]

Forever Peace is pertinent today.

Forever Peace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Julian and his lover, Amelia "Blaze" Harding, are made aware of a problem with an automated particle physics project that could potentially trigger a new Big Bang that destroys the Earth and the rest of the universe. Because it's so easy to do, it is speculated that universes could potentially have only the lifespan of the first civilization that attempts such a project. (Wiki)

Shades of Asimov's The Gods Themselves. It's an interesting quote Asimov took that title from. Trump fans come to mind.

Moderator's Warning:

You guys take that crap elsewhere. Stick to the thread topic please.

Watch your language. And there's no need to yell. I guess if you're a mod you don't need to be polite here. And topics go where topics go. Just like conversations.

 

[Loulit01]

I think he is describing/predicting the beginning of a new perspective different from the "Greatest Generation".

Yes, the future history thing. I see your point.

 

[jmotivator]

That's true. I'm not it's accurate. There were other, more popular writers with at least as much of an impact... Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary, before them we had the Beat writers...

I wouldn't say that Timothy Leary contributed to the "Love Generation", he was more a proponent of the psychedelics movement within the 60s counter culture. Even he makes a fine example of a writer whose influence extended well past their readership. Not everyone who dropped acid at Woodstock read a book by Leary.

But the central theme of the free love movement was influenced by and borrowed heavily from the cultural movement developed by Heinlein in the novel Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

[Loulit01]

I wouldn't say that Timothy Leary contributed to the "Love Generation", he was more a proponent of the psychedelics movement within the 60s counter culture. Even he makes a fine example of a writer whose influence extended well past their readership. Not everyone who dropped acid at Woodstock read a book by Leary.

But the central theme of the free love movement was influenced by and borrowed heavily from the cultural movement developed by Heinlein in the novel Stranger in a Strange Land.

Not everyone in the free love movement had heard the name Heinlein. I'd be happy to believe Stranger was responsible for free love but I don't. I believe the counter-culture, free love movement was most influenced by the Vietnam war.

 

[jmotivator]

Not everyone in the free love movement had heard the name Heinlein. I'd be happy to believe Stranger was responsible for free love but I don't. I believe the counter-culture, free love movement was most influenced by the Vietnam war.

But that is the whole point of my argument. My original assertion was that many people can take an author's work seriously even if they had never read or even heard of it. The cultural dogma that builds up around a piece of literature can become the foundational documents of a movement even when the adherents aren't all familiar with the originating work. Many people who drop acid have no clue who Timothy Leary is... which is my whole point.

 

[Loulit01]

But that is the whole point of my argument. My original assertion was that many people can take an author's work seriously even if they had never read or even heard of it. The cultural dogma that builds up around a piece of literature can become the foundational documents of a movement even when the adherents aren't all familiar with the originating work. Many people who drop acid have no clue who Timothy Leary is... which is my whole point.

I think the problem is you missed the post in which I replied to your original point because you were quoted by someone and I replied to that post. My bad.

Actually, jmotivator's post gave good examples of sci-fi works which have impact far beyond the sphere of people who have actually read the books in question. Many people know the concept of "Orwellian" who have not read a single book by Orwell.

Not quite sure that's the same thing. I knew that concept before reading Orwell but didn't fully grasp it until I read him.

I understand I don't have to jump off a building to know It's a bad idea, but while I know Marxism doesn't work in practice, I can't know if Das Kapital is wrong in theory until I read it, can I?

)(This does not imply that I will ever read Das Kapital.)

But that is the whole point of my argument. My original assertion was that many people can take an author's work seriously even if they had never read or even heard of it. The cultural dogma that builds up around a piece of literature can become the foundational documents of a movement even when the adherents aren't all familiar with the originating work. Many people who drop acid have no clue who Timothy Leary is... which is my whole point.

 

[swing_voter]

Watch your language. And there's no need to yell. I guess if you're a mod you don't need to be polite here. And topics go where topics go. Just like conversations.

Let's not attack the mods.



.

 

[Loulit01]

Let's not attack the mods.



.

Too late. I've been on forums since AOL hit big and mods who aren't polite aren't mods for long. That or I get banned. But I'm accustomed to that.

 

[craig]

Dune had so many layers-it is hard to conceive of a movie being able to cover all of them in a length that would sell

I loved the Dune series as a young adult. I liked the political intrigue and complexity. "Dune Messiah" was my favorite. When I got older I realized it was a retelling of Lawrence of Arabia and that has ruined it for me.

 

[Amyishere]

I am a fan of Heinlein, but yes, he is not the best. I like the works of PDK and Niven and Porunelle as well. Of scifi, I like counterfactual history and alternative history genre stories the best, so am a huge fan of Harry Turtledove and Eric Flint and others that write in that area.

 

[swing_voter]

I loved the Dune series as a young adult. I liked the political intrigue and complexity. "Dune Messiah" was my favorite. When I got older I realized it was a retelling of Lawrence of Arabia and that has ruined it for me.

That's another series I read and don't remember much about.

Hardly anything is original. Everything is built on previous works.


Todays writing is a lot better, imo.



.

 

[craig]

That's another series I read and don't remember much about.

Hardly anything is original. Everything is built on previous works.


Todays writing is a lot better, imo.



.

So many more people are doing it that is difficult to separate the cream. Just for pure enjoyment I am rereading B. V. Larson's Undying Mercenaries series.

 

[Loulit01]

I am a fan of Heinlein, but yes, he is not the best. I like the works of PDK and Niven and Porunelle as well. Of scifi, I like counterfactual history and alternative history genre stories the best, so am a huge fan of Harry Turtledove and Eric Flint and others that write in that area.

I like Niven/Pournelle, but someone, mentioned making The Mote in God's Eye into a movie. Seriously? Great book. Any movie bearing any resemblance to that book...

Let's just say I think that would be slightly overestimating the intelligence of the American public.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
H.L. Mencken (attributed)

 

[Loulit01]

That's another series I read and don't remember much about.

Hardly anything is original. Everything is built on previous works.


Todays writing is a lot better, imo.



.

Oh, I don't know. James Joyce broke a little new ground, I think.

I suppose you can say the Greeks and Shakespeare covered everything between them but it would be a fun argument.

 

[craig]

Oh, I don't know. James Joyce broke a little new ground, I think.

I suppose you can say the Greeks and Shakespeare covered everything between them but it would be a fun argument.

From Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man to Ulysses to Finnegans Wake where he left me and literature behind.

 

[Lucky 1]

I've read everything Heinlein ever wrote...some multiple times.

I actually thought "Friday" was one of his best and it deals with subjects that are coming into there own today..... Equality...woman's rights....etc.

I'd really hate to see Hollywood get ahold of any Heinlein novel...they'd just **** it up!!!

 

[Loulit01]

From Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man to Ulysses to Finnegans Wake where he left me and literature behind.

LOL Fair enough!

 

[Loulit01]

I can't keep up with all these new Bibles. I stick with the KJV. One version is more than enough for one lifetime.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Amen... the GREATEST science fiction author

Heinlein is grossly overrated. Other than The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, his novels are adolescent garbage.

Fight me!

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Heinlein is Harlan Ellison if Ellison couldn't write for shit.

 

[BitterPill]

Heinlein is grossly overrated. Other than The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, his novels are adolescent garbage.

Fight me!

I liked some of Heinlein's books well enough, especially the juvenile Starship Troopers which ended far too soon, but I was blown away by Asimov and am partial to Bradbury since he came to my house once when I was ten.

 

[swing_voter]

Oh, I don't know. James Joyce broke a little new ground, I think.

I suppose you can say the Greeks and Shakespeare covered everything between them but it would be a fun argument.

Ulysses?

The modern day story based on the Greek myth "Ulysses?"


.

 

[Loulit01]

Ulysses?

The modern day story based on the Greek myth "Ulysses?"


.

Unless Homer recited Ulysses in stream-of-consciousness rather than verse, yes, the modern day story based on the Greek myth.

 

[southwest88]

Not everyone in the free love movement had heard the name Heinlein. I'd be happy to believe Stranger was responsible for free love but I don't. I believe the counter-culture, free love movement was most influenced by the Vietnam war.

No, free love - or words to that effect - has a much longer pedigree in the West. See Free love - Wikipedia for a brief, footnoted summary, if you want to read about the antecedents. In the US, free love was tied to voting rights for women, & a general opening of professions & work outside the home for women. There were also attempts to recreate primitive Christianity in actual communities, with varying results. But see the Wikipedia article.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Too much like Cassandra, an actual soothsayer gets crucified if they tell the whole truth.

To quote Robert Heinlein, "Cassandra didn't get half the kicking around she deserved."

There's nothing prescient about libertarianism. It's just doing "human" wrong.