Right-wing protests are patriotic, but Left-wing protests are not?

[Grim17]

Since this post was obviously inspired by my series of threads dedicated to the violent behavior displayed by the left at union protests, I feel it's only right that I respond.

Can someone explain this logic to me?

We the People have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to peaceably to assemble, we have a right to free speech, we have a right to petition the Government for a redress of grievance. These are the truths echoed on forums when the Right-wing conducts a protest of the State or Federal Government--that it's a patriotic duty to exercise our RIGHTS against the government--but when the Left-wing exercises those same rights, it's a different story. Why do "some" people on the right-wing find it necessary to demonize people who are simply exercising their Rights and speaking their mind? You might disagree with the ideology of a teacher or policeman bargaining collectively with a State employer, but they still have a right to demonstrate to support their views.

You have it all wrong Joe. First, I have never said or implied that the left shouldn't, or doesn't have the right to protest.

Second, the people in the videos I posted were not "simply exercising their Rights and speaking their mind". They were conducting themselves in a very uncivilized manner by engaging in acts of violence against those who disagreed with them, engaging in acts of violence against members of the media, engaging in acts of violence against innocent bystanders, engaging in acts of violence against photographers, threatening violence and making death threats against public officials, threatening violence against photographers, threatening violence against members of the media, breaking the law by engaging in acts of civil disobedience, ignoring law enforcement officers, terrorizing public officials, trespassing on public property, vandalizing public property and costing tax payers 10's of thousands of dollars just to repair the damages and clean up the mess they made.

And finally, there is no double standard here. Other than the fact they both protested the actions of the government, and both carried insulting signs, the union protesters and Tea Party protesters had nothing at all in common, and anyone who tries to compare the two is either blinded by political partisanship, or just flat out dishonest.

For the record I respect the Tea-Party, even if I might object to some of their policy choices. They have a right to get together and speak their minds about "fairness" and being "treated right" by their Government. We can argue policy or ideology all we want, but let's not resort to personally dragging people or groups down.

Those angry, violent and hate filled liberals involved in those union sponsored protests, are the ones responsible for "dragging" their group down, not the person who exposes their uncivilized behavior.

Likewise, I respect the Teachers and Police who serve our communities; and believe they have a right to assemble to defend their views about bargaining for compensation.

I agree and feel the exact same way, as long as they assemble in a peaceful, civilized manner, respect the rule of law, respect others property and respect fellow protesters who may disagree with their views.

 

[pbrauer]

Since this post was obviously inspired by my series of threads dedicated to the violent behavior displayed by the left at union protests, I feel it's only right that I respond.



You have it all wrong Joe. First, I have never said or implied that the left shouldn't, or doesn't have the right to protest.

Second, the people in the videos I posted were not "simply exercising their Rights and speaking their mind". They were conducting themselves in a very uncivilized manner by engaging in acts of violence against those who disagreed with them, engaging in acts of violence against members of the media, engaging in acts of violence against innocent bystanders, engaging in acts of violence against photographers, threatening violence and making death threats against public officials, threatening violence against photographers, threatening violence against members of the media, breaking the law by engaging in acts of civil disobedience, ignoring law enforcement officers, terrorizing public officials, trespassing on public property, vandalizing public property and costing tax payers 10's of thousands of dollars just to repair the damages and clean up the mess they made.

And finally, there is no double standard here. Other than the fact they both protested the actions of the government, and both carried insulting signs, the union protesters and Tea Party protesters had nothing at all in common, and anyone who tries to compare the two is either blinded by political partisanship, or just flat out dishonest.




Those angry, violent and hate filled liberals involved in those union sponsored protests, are the ones responsible for "dragging" their group down, not the person who exposes their uncivilized behavior.




I agree and feel the exact same way, as long as they assemble in a peaceful, civilized manner, respect the rule of law, respect others property and respect fellow protesters who may disagree with their views.

Your videos were one sided and pathetic attempts to portray hard working Americans as "thugs" - that's unAmerican in my opinion. Why was the Tea Party at the union protests if it were not to intimidate and take video only to rush them over to the FNC? PATHETIC!!!

 

[Grim17]

I don't know why I even bother responding to nonsense like this anymore Pete, but here goes...

Your videos were one sided and pathetic attempts to portray hard working Americans as "thugs"

Those videos weren't one sided, they were factual and very real. All I did was post them and give my opinion on their content. The fact is Pete, those protesters are the ones who portrayed themselves as thugs, not me.

- that's unAmerican in my opinion.

It's patriotic to protest, yet you believe it's un-American to show videos of those protests... Whatever Pete... lol

Why was the Tea Party at the union protests if it were not to intimidate and take video only to rush them over to the FNC? PATHETIC!!!

It's called "counter protesting" Pete, which is not only just as "American" as protesting is, but it's also something that the left has done at nearly every Tea Party protest over the last 2 years. Of course the difference being, the tea party people didn't physically attack or threaten the liberal counter protesters, try to shut them up, or try and prevent them from video taping their rallies...

The word "pathetic" certainly applies Pete, but to the actions those videos depicted, not to the people who shot them.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

I don't know why I even bother responding to nonsense like this anymore Pete, but here goes...



Those videos weren't one sided, they were factual and very real. All I did was post them and give my opinion on their content. The fact is Pete, those protesters are the ones who portrayed themselves as thugs, not me.



It's patriotic to protest, yet you believe it's un-American to show videos of those protests... Whatever Pete... lol



It's called "counter protesting" Pete, which is not only just as "American" as protesting is, but it's also something that the left has done at nearly every Tea Party protest over the last 2 years. Of course the difference being, the tea party people didn't physically attack or threaten the liberal counter protesters, try to shut them up, or try and prevent them from video taping their rallies...

The word "pathetic" certainly applies Pete, but not to the people who shot those videos.

Extreme righties are every bit as bad as extreme lefties. Every bit.

 

[Grim17]

Extreme righties are every bit as bad as extreme lefties. Every bit.

Not according to their actions at protests.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

Not according to their actions at protests.

Absolutely according to their actions at protests, on the Internet, in casual conversation ...

Don't believe the charicature of these protesters. Just like partisans tried to draw an unflattering picture of tea partiers, some are painting a very unflattering picture of these demonstrations, and they're doing so using any and all evidence they can get. If you go looking for trouble in any large crowd, you will find it.

Violent clashes? Rioting? Looting? Wanton destruction? Nothing approaching that. Nothing close. Just hyperbole.

 

[pbrauer]

I don't know why I even bother responding to nonsense like this anymore Pete, but here goes...



Those videos weren't one sided, they were factual and very real. All I did was post them and give my opinion on their content. The fact is Pete, those protesters are the ones who portrayed themselves as thugs, not me.

Of course they're one-side, there were cameras pointing at the protests, not at the Tea Party -wingnuts. What were they doing?

How many of the protestors do you figure were "thugs," Grim? 1 or 2 of them, 10%, 20% 30% ... etc. ??????

It seems to me, you hate your fellow Americans.

 

[joe six-pack]

Right? Where in the constitution is this a right?

Bargaining rights are in part covered in State civil liberties and in part covered by State law.

But again, you are missing the entire point. The teachers were doing their civic duty by exercising their right to protest. I'm not debating the merits of their protest, which, after they agreed to all the financial demands, was about their right to bargain as a group. This thread is about something more than that.

As well they should be demonized. They broke thier contract AND hurt the education of children.

You are being dishonest. The right to bargain was part of their contractual agreement. It's the Governor that wants to strip funding from schools. It's the Governor that wants to negate promises made in contract. You are also missing the point of this thread, which isn't surprising. It's not a debate on the dispute itself, but on why people like demonize public teachers.

Unfortunately you made my case.

 

[joe six-pack]

Of course you have a right to protest, but that doesn't make you patriotic. Example: If you are protesting to protect the Constitution, you are patriotic. If you are protesting to harm the Constitution, you are unpatriotic. In both cases you have the right to protest.

All I am saying is that the act of exercising the right to peaceful protest is an example of patriotism. Just standing up for a cause doesn't make someone patriotic, they have to also be patriotic themselves. Teachers and Policemen, as public servants, should be assumed to be Patriotic because an overwhelming majority of them certainly are. Just like our veterans of war, Teachers and Policeman have a sword duty to serve society.

Protesting in the Tea-Party doesn't necessarily make someone patriotic. They have to have other patriotic qualities as well, which I believe a majority of them do. I should have made that more clear in my OP, but I was congratulating the Teachers for exercising their civic duty to protest and speak their mind. Unions are not against State Law and they are not against the State Constitution.

People need to stop attacking the "teachers" if they disagree with the "message."

Is my point less vague now?

 

[soccerboy22]

If a protest comes from the left or right doesn't make it patriotic or not. What does that is the message. The unpatriotic message usually comes from the extremes on both sides.

 

[Kal'Stang]

You are being dishonest. The right to bargain was part of their contractual agreement. It's the Governor that wants to strip funding from schools. It's the Governor that wants to negate promises made in contract. You are also missing the point of this thread, which isn't surprising. It's not a debate on the dispute itself, but on why people like demonize public teachers.

Unfortunately you made my case.

I really don't know how to explain to you what happened any different than I already have. I've already explained to you what happened. If you wish to ignore it that is fine. I hate repeating myself over and over so I am done. Believe what you want to believe.

BTW, the point of this thread was based on what the teachers were doing in WI. It was not based on public teachers as a whole. Moving the goal posts does nothing for your arguement other than show that you couldn't defend your original conditions and just don't want to admit it.

 

[William Rea]

Like I care about a liberal's opinion.

I guess that someone who shares the same world view as authoritarian left and right regimes wouldn't be that bothered about a moderate opinion.

 

[joe six-pack]

I've already explained to you what happened.

What you did was explain your version of the facts, which I consider "untrue."

BTW, the point of this thread was based on what the teachers were doing in WI. It was not based on public teachers as a whole.

Actually it was about the political discussion about the teachers protests. I said:

"Why do "some" people on the right-wing find it necessary to demonize people who are simply exercising their Rights and speaking their mind?"

My point wasn't about the message itself, but about the civic duty we all have to peacefully protests and exercise our right to free speech. The best way to preserve rights is to exercise them and in that regard both the Tea-Party and the Teacher's did society a service, in that respect. Maybe I wasn't clear enough for you.

Teachers and Police are patriotic, their public service is an example of that.

 

[joe six-pack]

yeah, i would say as a general and aggregate matter that right wing protests tend to be more patriotic than left wing ones.

That's a subjective value statement that can't be accurately quantified. However, defending unions can be patriotic,according to the best Republican. In a 1980 speech, President Ronald Reagan said: "These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland […] They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

In a 1981 speech, President Ronald Reagan said: "Collective bargaining in the years since has played a major role in America’s economic miracle. Unions represent some of the freest institutions in this land."

 

[Cold Highway]

To answer to OP, conservatives hate liberals, liberals hate conservatives deal with it.

 

[Big Tom]

Can someone explain this logic to me?

We the People have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to peaceably to assemble, we have a right to free speech, we have a right to petition the Government for a redress of grievance. These are the truths echoed on forums when the Right-wing conducts a protest of the State or Federal Government--that it's a patriotic duty to exercise our RIGHTS against the government--but when the Left-wing exercises those same rights, it's a different story. Why do "some" people on the right-wing find it necessary to demonize people who are simply exercising their Rights and speaking their mind? You might disagree with the ideology of a teacher or policeman bargaining collectively with a State employer, but they still have a right to demonstrate to support their views.

The First Amendment says it best:


For the record I respect the Tea-Party, even if I might object to some of their policy choices. They have a right to get together and speak their minds about "fairness" and being "treated right" by their Government. We can argue policy or ideology all we want, but let's not resort to personally dragging people or groups down. Likewise, I respect the Teachers and Police who serve our communities; and believe they have a right to assemble to defend their views about bargaining for compensation.

Because most left wing protests tend to be anti-American.

 

[cpwill]

That's a subjective value statement that can't be accurately quantified. However, defending unions can be patriotic,according to the best Republican. In a 1980 speech, President Ronald Reagan said: "These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland […] They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."

In a 1981 speech, President Ronald Reagan said: "Collective bargaining in the years since has played a major role in America’s economic miracle. Unions represent some of the freest institutions in this land."

yup, and he also agreed with FDR, Meaney, and Gompers that public sector unions were a misallocation of this model. It would be like arguing that the first amendment gives a general officer the right to badmouth the President in public or spill classified information. which is why, when the air traffic controllers struck, he fired all of them.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Because most left wing protests tend to be anti-American.

What utter tosh. You omitted "intellectual" from the knee-jerk meaningless talking point emission.

 

[cpwill]

What utter tosh. You omitted "intellectual" from the knee-jerk meaningless talking point emission.

:shrug: it's not tosh. there is a strain of anti-Americanism that runs thick in leftist protests that simply does not exist in the conservative ones.

 

[Slartibartfast]

:shrug: it's not tosh. there is a strain of anti-Americanism that runs thick in leftist protests that simply does not exist in the conservative ones.

Please define what your term as "anti-americanism"

 

[Gardener]

:shrug: it's not tosh. there is a strain of anti-Americanism that runs thick in leftist protests that simply does not exist in the conservative ones.

And there is a strain of jingoism that runs thick in the right.

When people fail to see one or the other, they are revealing more about their own particular brand than anything else.