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Rich people prepare to pay more taxes

Do we feel sorry for rich people?

  • Yes, i feel sorry for rich people

    Votes: 3 7.5%
  • Hell no, let the rich pay their fair share

    Votes: 37 92.5%

  • Total voters
    40
I've never heard that claim. How does it make politicians wealthier if we tax them and their donors more?
why are so many people who have never had a job that pays more than 200K a year worth dozens of millions of dollars?
 
This thread is about rich people paying more taxes not poor people.
smart people realize that tax hikes on productive people ends up being tax hikes on the less productive ones
 
why are so many people who have never had a job that pays more than 200K a year worth dozens of millions of dollars?
I don't know if we are talking past each other right now, but I made the claim that a strong progressive tax structure would help slow concentration of wealth in the upper classes. You then made the claim that politicians like the idea of a progressive tax system because it gives them wealth and power. Why would a progressive tax system make politicians more wealthy or powerful?
 
I don't know if we are talking past each other right now, but I made the claim that a strong progressive tax structure would help slow concentration of wealth in the upper classes. You then made the claim that politicians like the idea of a progressive tax system because it gives them wealth and power. Why would a progressive tax system make politicians more wealthy or powerful?
because a progressive tax system centralizes wealth in the hands of those politicians. The main purpose of a progressive income tax system-according to the proponents when it was passed over a century ago, was to give congress all sorts of power that a NST would not.
 
because a progressive tax system centralizes wealth in the hands of those politicians. The main purpose of a progressive income tax system-according to the proponents when it was passed over a century ago, was to give congress all sorts of power that a NST would not.
Got a link to support that nonsense?
 
why are so many people who have never had a job that pays more than 200K a year worth dozens of millions of dollars?
Are book deals and speaking fees a mystery to you?
 
I'm in the 1% and I believe my overall tax burden went up under Trump. The same is true for most of my wealthy friends. The changes to the SALT taxes were pretty extreme for many states.
I sorry to hear that. Taking more money away from those who put in the effort and strive for the American dream is sad to say the least. Increasing labor rates around the world instead of increasing taxes is the real solution. Instead the left believe bringing in more cheap labor from other countries driving our labor rates down is the solution. Now instead of everyone paying their share too many are taking money out of the system leaving the successful to pay their way.
 
Are book deals and speaking fees a mystery to you?
of course not, but its influence that is the stock in trade many rich politicians have. why do you think Harvard MBAs from places like Goldman-Sachs were paying Hillary 200K for a half hour speech and appearance at one of their meetings. Due you think Hillary has any expertise on investment advice that she could impart to some guy who does billion dollar deals before lunch each day?
 
because a progressive tax system centralizes wealth in the hands of those politicians. The main purpose of a progressive income tax system-according to the proponents when it was passed over a century ago, was to give congress all sorts of power that a NST would not.
How does it centralize power in the hands of politicians? I get that you are making claims but where is the substance?
 
Got a link to support that nonsense?
Do you know how to research the legislative history and record behind a statute or an amendment?
 
How does it centralize power in the hands of politicians? I get that you are making claims but where is the substance?
where does the money go when taxes on the rich are increased?
 
Are book deals and speaking fees a mystery to you?
Please. When it comes to politicians, speaking fees are nothing more than bribes. While they are in a position to grand political favors they can make 100's of millions of dollars like the Clintons did. Seems once they are no longer in a position to grant political favors nobody is willing to pay to hear what they have to say. Anyone with half a brain can see through this.
 
When the swamp creatures raise taxes on the rich, they are only hurting the middle class and poor. It's not rocket science. When you raise taxes on the rich, the rich simply hide a large portion of their wealth in tax shelters, rather then investing it in a way that creates jobs.
LOL Investing in your business and creating jobs IS a tax shelter. That is all tax deductible. That is why higher taxes on high incomes encourages that kind of behavior. Lowering taxes make hoarding cash more attractive. Like you said it is not rocket science.
 
When the swamp creatures raise taxes on the rich, they are only hurting the middle class and poor. It's not rocket science. When you raise taxes on the rich, the rich simply hide a large portion of their wealth in tax shelters, rather then investing it in a way that creates jobs.
You don't understand much about business expensing, do ya?
 
You just don't get it. When you raise taxes on the rich they counter punch in whatever way they can. For example, if you are Jeff Bezos or whomever, when you raise their taxes, they raise their prices to compensate. So, the little guy winds up paying for Jeff Bezos's increased taxes. Or, he does something else to avoid the higher taxes.
This is simply a misunderstanding of the economics of taxation. How much tax burden gets passed along is a function of the elasticity of demand. Generally, discretionary consumer products, such as those sold by Amazon, have higher elasticity of demand. This means that when owners shift the tax incidence to consumers in the form of higher prices, consumers buy less and owners actually lose more money than they would if they just bore most of the tax incidence. In these cases the producers/owners bear most of the tax incidence. On the other hand, there are other things that are insensitive to changes in price, such as gasoline, which can pass more of the tax incidence on to consumers.

In reality, an increase in taxes on the rich leads to small price increases on most spending. Even though people like to pretend that the rich just shift the tax burden to everyone, they don't. They pay most of it themselves. This has been well known and understood for quite some time, we are not blazing new trails here, tax incidence is taught in High Schools all over America today.
 
Here are some example numbers, what would be an ideal fair share & why? (Local,State & Fed)
Feel free to skip the numbers if you just want to explain principles.

Corporate Revenue: $97,809,870.82
Before-tax Expenses: $56,092,891.76
Taxable income: $41,716,979.06

Foreign Income: $5,329,315.24 (Staying outside country, taxed foreignly: 41.9%: $2,238,312.12)

Personal Income: $2,870,678.66 ($88,945.62 wage, $2,781,733.04 in capital gains)

Should the progressive taxation be exceptionally higher (rather than a 1-2% per threshold) than wage Income at: $300,000 ; $120,000 ; $80,000 ; $50,000.
 
where does the money go when taxes on the rich are increased?
So your argument is that a progressive tax system empowers congress because they decide the use of the tax revenue and it follows that they will enrich themselves? Isn't it also possible that they used their power to lower taxes to enrich themselves? If we saw less wealth in congress now than during the mid 20th century I would see your point, but we see the exact opposite instead. Congress is more wealthy now than when taxes were higher on the upper classes. I do think your power argument works fine, but the enriching argument doesn't track.
 
So your argument is that a progressive tax system empowers congress because they decide the use of the tax revenue and it follows that they will enrich themselves? Isn't it also possible that they used their power to lower taxes to enrich themselves? If we saw less wealth in congress now than during the mid 20th century I would see your point, but we see the exact opposite instead. Congress is more wealthy now than when taxes were higher on the upper classes. I do think your power argument works fine, but the enriching argument doesn't track.
many members of congress-either personally-or through spouses (Pelosi, Feinstein etc) have dealings with the government on a large scale. One of my economics professors-long deceased-Raymond Powell, noted that those who deal with the government see the concentration of wealth in the government as increasing efficiency for them. Rather than engaging in numerous deals with private entities, it is more profitable and efficient to have a bigger deal with the government.
 
smart people realize that tax hikes on productive people ends up being tax hikes on the less productive ones
Quiz question: A: Dunning-Kruger effect, or B: Illusory superiority.

Smart people realize the complexity of progressive taxation. A true redistribution tends to reward innovation and punishes hoarders of underutilized capital. In other words it rewards people who do things over people who have things.
 
Quiz question: A: Dunning-Kruger effect, or B: Illusory superiority.

Smart people realize the complexity of progressive taxation. A true redistribution tends to reward innovation and punishes hoarders of underutilized capital. In other words it rewards people who do things over people who have things.
Being a libertarian, I see the progressive tax system as one that gives congress all sorts of extra-constitutional power. I oppose Congress having powers additional to the ones set forth in the Constitution.
 
Being a libertarian, I see the progressive tax system as one that gives congress all sorts of extra-constitutional power. I oppose Congress having powers additional to the ones set forth in the Constitution.
What does that have to do with the economic impact of taxation?

Furthermore, how does libertarianism mean originalism? There is no strict interpretation idolatry in libertarianism. Personally, I have always had libertarian tendencies but have no special affection for the Constitution. The Presidential system is trash in my opinion and that has never run counter to libertarianism. The Constitution was ahead of its time but our understanding has changed.
 
What does that have to do with the economic impact of taxation?

Furthermore, how does libertarianism mean originalism? There is no strict interpretation idolatry in libertarianism. Personally, I have always had libertarian tendencies but have no special affection for the Constitution. The Presidential system is trash in my opinion and that has never run counter to libertarianism. The Constitution was ahead of its time but our understanding has changed.
what do you think Libertarian-Left means?
 
well whose fault is that? btw the economy is changing. with global labor markets, a HS education and a factory job is no longer going to lead to a two car family where the wife stays home to raise the kids. Information and high tech skills is the way to a solid upper middle class lifestyle.

Not really, at least for high tech skills, as many are finding out. Tech is busy outsourcing jobs or insourcing cheap labor. Ones best bet as a young person these days is to get into a trade of some sort or something that has a flexible and adaptable skillset with minimal outlay and parley that income into a stash to start accumulating wealth via starting a business and investing. Being an employee for life is untenable now.
 
what do you think Libertarian-Left means?
It is the same small government, free market thought with a focus on the demand side rather than the supply side. Governments should exist to guard against the game theory problems and protect consumer power. The consumer-producer signals will do the rest.
 
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