Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government subsidi

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Completely different subject.

No. It's exactly the same subject. You are making that argument that someone should be forced to provide a service to someone else who needs it, yet cannot afford it. In fact, you're making that claim that your argument has already been won. So, please post your address so that I can refer the local panhandlers to your house for the service you think we should be able to force others to provide. I'm sorry if you don't want them at your house. The argument is over. You've won.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

So you're saying that Ronald Reagan was a socialist or something?

The policy of forcing someone to provide a service to someone else at no cost is probably more accurately called communism and/or slavery, but you can call it socialist, if you like. Close enough for me.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Because he didn't? I'm sorry your stuck on this "slavery" thing.

I'm sorry you don't understand what slavery means.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

So in other words, they have too many patients that can't afford to pay their bills... and the problem has been there for a long time. Not due to ObamaCare.

Sorry but you have failed to prove your claim. I don't see a single headline on that search page claiming any hospitals have closed due to ObamaCare.

Have a good day though.

So what you're saying is that these hospitals are closing down because they're having to provide care to people who can't pay for it. So as it stands now, not only will the poor people not be able to get health care, nobody else will either. Nicely done.

 

[apdst]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

I should have been more specific, although I did clarify this in a later post. You get charged based on your likely usage of your coverage. So even if you are covered for something that you will never use, it doesn't mean you are paying for it, because the insurance companies can clearly see that men don't have babies and women don't need viagra.

Through Ofailure, men have to pay for maternity coverage and birth control.

 

[ItAin'tFree]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Outlandish speculation. I prefer to discuss reality, not your delusional nightmares.

BS. Name one country under a single payer system that does not do just that. They have to. It's the only way they can control price because there is no price competition.

You make it crystal clear you have no intention of discussing reality when the evidence proves opposite of what you want to hear.

 

[ItAin'tFree]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

I should have been more specific, although I did clarify this in a later post. You get charged based on your likely usage of your coverage. So even if you are covered for something that you will never use, it doesn't mean you are paying for it, because the insurance companies can clearly see that men don't have babies and women don't need viagra.

LOL. More complete lack of understanding reality.

 

[vesper]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

The very first link to come:



So in other words, they have too many patients that can't afford to pay their bills... and the problem has been there for a long time. Not due to ObamaCare.

Sorry but you have failed to prove your claim. I don't see a single headline on that search page claiming any hospitals have closed due to ObamaCare.

Have a good day though.

Not everything is discovered in a "headline" if you would have had the desire to do a little more research than just flippantly respond you would have discovered hospitals are closing their doors because of the $716 billion in cuts President Obama will impose on increases in Medicare reimbursement as a result of Obamacare starting next year. You would have also discovered that Hospitals lost 2% of medical reimbursements during the sequestration this year which amounted to over 9 billion. These cuts are really effecting smaller hospitals. But even big places like Cleveland Clinic may not be closing down but are cutting 300 million from their 2014 budget and they cite Obamacare as part of the reason.

During a regularly scheduled quarterly meeting, Cleveland Clinic President and Chief Executive Dr. Toby Cosgrove told employees about plans to reduce operating expenses by about 6 percent, and cited the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, as one of the reasons for the cuts.

Citing Obamacare, Cleveland Clinic to Cut $300M, Warns of Layoffs - US News and World Report

Another article explains that with Obamacare and the increase enrollment on Medicaid is also causing a financial problem for the hospitals because Medicaid only reimburses the hospital 50 cents or less on every dollar.

“I think we’re going to see a lot more reduction in labor force at hospitals because of Obamacare,” said Sally Pipes, a health care expert at the Pacific Research Institute.

One major reason is mandatory cuts in Medicare reimbursement rates under Obamacare, said James Capretta, a health care expert at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Medicare, the government’s health insurance program for the elderly, covers over a fifth of health care costs in the United States, meaning it makes up a significant portion of hospital revenue.

The government reimburses hospitals for Medicare patients at a fixed rate based on the diagnosis, and the government increases these rates each year to cover the rising costs of health care. The federal government cuts these annual increases by about 1.1 percent under Obamacare, Capretta said.

“This is the main reason why the Cleveland Clinic and others are going to have to tighten their belts,” Capretta said.

Obamacare is also increasing the number of people who are receiving insurance from the government, which will reduce hospital profits, noted Avik Roy, a health care policy expert at the Manhattan Institute.

The costs of Medicare and Medicaid, the government’s health insurance program for the poor, have continued to rise over the years, making reform of the programs necessary. However, the programs are hard to touch politically because they are so popular.

As a result, the federal government simply pays doctors and hospitals less than private insurers for the services they provide. Today, for every dollar a private insurer pays a doctor or hospital, Medicare pays 70 or 80 cents, and Medicaid pays 50 cents or less (with the precise rates varying by the specific area), Roy said.

“This has squeezed the system,” Roy says—and Obamacare exacerbates the problem by expanding Medicaid, increasing the number of patients that hospitals and doctors will see who rely on underpaying federal insurance.

Obamacare

It shouldn't be that hard for you to grasp when a hospital services a good number of people on Medicaid and the government is reimbursing them 50 cents or less on the dollar for those services, it becomes obvious why hospitals are struggling. Obamacare has encouraged a huge number of people to sign up on Medicaid causing the problem to get worse and more hospitals will close especially in those states that did not agree to raise their Medicaid funding. Those hospitals that remain open are having to make cuts which include staff. So if you go to a very busy emergency room that should be staffed with 5 doctors, there may only be 3 on duty. If you have a hospital stay and ring for a nurse, it may take him/her longer to respond because there may be a shortage. If your local hospital closes you might have to travel 25-30 miles to get to another one. While many of us have seen our premiums jump through the roof and our deductibles increased in exchange for sub-standard care.
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[FederalRepublic]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

It shouldn't be that hard for you to grasp when a hospital services a good number of people on Medicaid and the government is reimbursing them 50 cents or less on the dollar for those services, it becomes obvious why hospitals are struggling. Obamacare has encouraged a huge number of people to sign up on Medicaid causing the problem to get worse and more hospitals will close especially in those states that did not agree to raise their Medicaid funding. Those hospitals that remain open are having to make cuts which include staff. So if you go to a very busy emergency room that should be staffed with 5 doctors, there may only be 3 on duty. If you have a hospital stay and ring for a nurse, it may take him/her longer to respond because there may be a shortage. If your local hospital closes you might have to travel 25-30 miles to get to another one. While many of us have seen our premiums jump through the roof and our deductibles increased in exchange for sub-standard care.
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But we called it the "Affordable Care Act", so it must be more affordable...

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Not everything is discovered in a "headline"

Lol, as proof for the claim that many hospitals are shutting down due to ObamaCare, you give me one hospital that is cutting it's budget and claims that one of the reasons is ObamaCare?

Nice try, lol. Not even remotely close. Just admit that you made the claim up and move on.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Through Ofailure, men have to pay for maternity coverage and birth control.

True, men will now pay more in order to even out the cost difference between men and women. Makes sense to me though since for every act of sex requiring birth control and for every instance where maternity coverage is required, at one point a guy was involved in those lovely affairs.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

So what you're saying is that these hospitals are closing down because they're having to provide care to people who can't pay for it. So as it stands now, not only will the poor people not be able to get health care, nobody else will either. Nicely done.

I'm saying that that is the reason that that one hospital gave. Please make an effort to read what I write before responding. Thanks.

 

[Deuce]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Yet another apples to oranges comparison from the right wing propaganda machine. Shocking.

 

[Deuce]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

True, men will now pay more in order to even out the cost difference between men and women. Makes sense to me though since for every act of sex requiring birth control and for every instance where maternity coverage is required, at one point a guy was involved in those lovely affairs.

Also, a significant portion of men were born.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Because the president was dishonest about some health insurance plans and they did a lousy job with the website. Neither of which makes the plan bad. At the end of the day the website will get fixed and the mandates will go in to place.

So far, with Obamacare we have an unpopular plan that was passed without anybody reading it, that has resulted in the hiring of hundreds of thousands of new bureaucrats, the loss of a product that millions were satsfied with, a web site that is non functional even though it cost hundreds of times what it woud have cost in the private sector, and promoted with a series of outright lies, and thousands of groups being exempted, Billions have been spent, and so far not a single medical bill has been paid by the program after 5 years of lead time.

Can you explain why I should think this will all work out for my benefit?

 

[Deuce]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

So far, with Obamacare we have an unpopular plan that was passed without anybody reading it,

You had plenty of time to read it. I read it. Why didn't you?

that has resulted in the hiring of hundreds of thousands of new bureaucrats,

The "hired a bazillion new IRS agents" thing was a myth.

the loss of a product that millions were satsfied with

Millions of people satisfied with insurance they'd never really had to use.

, a web site that is non functional even though it cost hundreds of times what it woud have cost in the private sector

It didn't cost what the GOP has been telling you it cost. It wasn't $600+ million

, and promoted with a series of outright lies, and thousands of groups being exempted,

Many of the groups you've been told were "exempted" weren't actually.

Billions have been spent, and so far not a single medical bill has been paid by the program after 5 years of lead time.

Technically true. Because "Obamacare" isn't a health insurance plan, and the medicaid expansion starts next year. It doesn't pay medical bills, you and your insurance company do. "Obamacare" will pay your insurance company to assist with those medical bills, though. But since, according to you, this doesn't count as paying medical bills, I guess that means taxpayer dollars don't pay for abortions despite Planned Parenthood getting federal funding. That's probably a relief to many pro-life folks.

It's also interesting that you're claiming a "5 year lead time" for a program that doesn't really start until next year.

Can you explain why I should think this will all work out for my benefit?

Would have to know more about you, your income, your family, your current insurance, etc. But a good start would be realizing that many of the things you've been told about this bill by the right wing are lies.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

So far, with Obamacare we have an unpopular plan that was passed without anybody reading it,

Many bills are passed through congress without all of congress reading them. If you have a problem with that, its a fair critique but it doesn't make sense to single out one law in this respect.

that has resulted in the hiring of hundreds of thousands of new bureaucrats,

Link for that claim?

the loss of a product that millions were satsfied with,

I haven't seen any polls saying that all people that are having there policies canceled were very happy with what they had.
Some of them may prefer a new policy that although may be more expensive, they can now afford with a subsidy. Though I'll admit that I don't like these policies being canceled, I can see why it's also a good thing.

a web site that is non functional even though it cost hundreds of times what it woud have cost in the private sector,

The reports of the cost have the website have been reported to be false. The cost was not any where near what you claim.

and promoted with a series of outright lies, and thousands of groups being exempted,

Thousands of groups have not been exempted. There have been waivers to extend companies a little time to become compliant, that isn't being exempted.

And you might have a leg to stand on if your side hadn't used so many lies also. It pales in comparison quite frankly.

Billions have been spent, and so far not a single medical bill has been paid by the program after 5 years of lead time.

The program doesn't pay medical bills. It helps people afford and sign up for health insurance. Meaning that health insurance companies are the ones paying medical bills. You should read up on the law before talking about it.

Can you explain why I should think this will all work out for my benefit?

I think if you actually knew what the bill was you'd be surprised.

 

[ItAin'tFree]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

True, men will now pay more in order to even out the cost difference between men and women. Makes sense to me though since for every act of sex requiring birth control and for every instance where maternity coverage is required, at one point a guy was involved in those lovely affairs.

LOL. Because a female has sex with "a guy" that's not me, I should pay. By the lack of logic you use, I should be stuck pay the health care tab for the results of their sex act until that kid dies.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

True, men will now pay more in order to even out the cost difference between men and women. Makes sense to me though since for every act of sex requiring birth control and for every instance where maternity coverage is required, at one point a guy was involved in those lovely affairs.

Why did the cost difference need to be evened out? There was nothing wrong with the way it was. Sorry, but since men have no use for products such as birth control or maternity coverage there is no reason they should pay for them. Nothing you said changes that.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

Also, a significant portion of men were born.

That argument is even dumber than his. Yes, men get born, but again, what in the hell does that have to do with anything?

 

[Henrin]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

You were born, so that means it's only right you pay for products for women. Just how many facepalms does that idiocy deserve?

 

[apdst]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

True, men will now pay more in order to even out the cost difference between men and women. Makes sense to me though since for every act of sex requiring birth control and for every instance where maternity coverage is required, at one point a guy was involved in those lovely affairs.

So, you DON'T get charged for what you use...

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

In the past you have been charged by how likely you are to use the services. There will still be services that are like this (old people will still pay more because they have more medicines, more doctors visits, more specialized care etc.) but as far as maternity coverage, younger men will pay a part of it.

 

[roughdraft274]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

You were born, so that means it's only right you pay for products for women. Just how many facepalms does that idiocy deserve?

For the typical family it doesn't even matter. My policy goes up alittle, my wifes goes down. You can get all irate about it all you want. Its not a bad idea if it gives better access to birth control thus reducing unwanted pregnancies etc.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Revealed: Obamacare plans will cost MORE 'in many cases' even with government sub

In the past you have been charged by how likely you are to use the services. There will still be services that are like this (old people will still pay more because they have more medicines, more doctors visits, more specialized care etc.) but as far as maternity coverage, younger men will pay a part of it.

And yet, your argument has nothing to do with maternity coverage. I would love to know why men should have to pay for it. The equal charges argument is just a ****ty excuse.