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Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily
Seriously, spin that, Obama fans.
No matter the administration, it is wrong in my eyes.
Using the tragedies of TWA Flight 800 and the Olympic bombing in Atlanta to instill fear of terrorism in the heart of every American, our politicians are promising to make us safe and secure by giving the FBI the power to wiretap more of us with less judicial scrutiny, to access our personal and financial records with no judicial oversight, and to seize our assets by classifying us as "terrorists" based upon our personal and political beliefs.
Link
Oh, I don't doubt you think it's wrong regardless of whose doing it. That's not what I'm suggesting.
I'm suggesting you would've spent most of your time in those threads attacking Bush and expressing your disagerement and displeasure with the actions rather than barely saying two words of disapproval but making a multitude of posts just having a go at people expressing their displeasure. Which, fine...I'm used to that in politics. But when you are having a go at people with implications of them being hypocrites or acting differently in the two situations, then it kind of raises an eyebrow.
I don't doubt you think it's wrong in both cases. But I think your REACTION to that wrongness is absolutely shaded differently.
Also, let's be real. The Patriot Act and the various actions taken there weren't themselves born from nothing. ECHELON and CALEA are two such examples started with Democrats in the white house. Under Clinton, after the Olypmic bombing, similar ratcheting up of survelliance in the name of anti-terror occured (Digital Telephony, the Communications Assistant to Law Enforcement Act, Aviation Security and Anti-Terrosim Act, Anti-Terrorism Law Enforcement Act). As described in one artcile:
That's why the "BUT THE LAST GUY..." thing doesn't work so well. Because when it comes to politics, there's always a reasonable argument that "the last guy" was actually just building upon the same things "the last guy!" before him was doing, and so on and so on. Few things are the first instances of encroachment, it simply is another step...another step...another step.
Poor helpless Obama. It's a shame he isn't as powerful as Booooooosh.
They sold their souls to Obama
We're living in a police state and the only thing they care about is defending their false idol. When confronted with facts they are unable to refute they bleet "4 legs good 2 legs bad B000SH!: like sheep.
Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily
Seriously, spin that, Obama fans.
This is me when I think about the Bush government approved spying on it's citizens:
Is that enough or do you want tears too?
Susan Rice is going to go after everyone who thinks she's a brainless tit - that's why it's millions of phone records and not just a few.
I haven't done the research, but it's a fair bet that every single GOP pol w/the exception of Rand Paul is in favor of the policy.
I also havent done the research but I bet many GOP pol are against this particular application of the policy.
It seems that my post was mistaken for "BUT BUSH DID IT TOO SO ITS OKAY!LOL1!" This is not the case. I have always said that in the area of civil liberties and privacy Obama has been sorely lacking, but so far every serious contender the Republicans have put forth have held...the exact same position.
So give us an alternative and we'll talk. Until then, stop blaming Obama, and start blaming a system that believes we should only be allowed to have the choice of a)having our rights crapped on and b)having our rights crapped on.
On the topic of civil rights and privacy the Right has zero moral authority.
PUT FORTH A SERIOUS, ELECTABLE ALTERNATIVE.
My job this morning is to be so persuasive...that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack," he told a crowd of about 300 Ivy Leaguers--and, by the looks of it, a handful of locals who managed to gain access to what was supposed to be a students-only event.
For one thing, under an Obama presidency, Americans will be able to leave behind the era of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and "wiretaps without warrants," he said.
You're still blaming someone else. It's pathetic.
Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me | News Blogs - CNET News
Now he's acting like a Fascist. Why are you supporting Fascism? Explain yourself.
Remember how the Left beat Bush half to death over the Patriot Act? Now here these hypocrites are taking that law to insane limits. And since they and the IRS appear to be such busy-bodies, there's no telling what inane purpose they've contrived to justify their actions.
The right wing in this thread: we will criticize Obama for failing in the area of civil liberties and privacy, but we won't even discuss providing an electable right wing alternative who respects civil liberties and privacy.
Thanks guys. You rock.
So one wonders what they do with that information? Flag customers who make call to certain countries? It has to be something like that. ??
Yeah, but that was going in the opposite direction. Basically, if the suicide-bomber-facilitator in Quetta made a sudden phone call to New York, we didn't stop collecting just because the other end of the line was in New York - we waited to see who was getting called by suicide-bomber-facilitators from Pakistan.
This seems more like collecting every single American phone records, and sifting through them to see who's been naughty or nice.
It's the difference between a policeman having probable cause, and searching you just to see if anything turns up.
NSA's Verizon Spying Order Specifically Targeted Americans, Not Foreigners - Forbes“It is hereby ordered that [Verizon Business Network Services'] Custodian of Records shall produce to the National Security Agency…all call detail records or ‘telephony metadata’ created by Verizon for communications (i) between the United States and abroad; or (ii) wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls,” the Guardian’s copy of the order reads. “This Order does not require Verizon to include telephony metadata for communications wholly originating and terminating in foreign countries.”
Oh, I don't doubt you think it's wrong regardless of whose doing it. That's not what I'm suggesting.
I'm suggesting you would've spent most of your time in those threads attacking Bush and expressing your disagerement and displeasure with the actions rather than barely saying two words of disapproval but making a multitude of posts just having a go at people expressing their displeasure. Which, fine...I'm used to that in politics. But when you are having a go at people with implications of them being hypocrites or acting differently in the two situations, then it kind of raises an eyebrow.
I don't doubt you think it's wrong in both cases. But I think your REACTION to that wrongness is absolutely shaded differently.
Also, let's be real. The Patriot Act and the various actions taken there weren't themselves born from nothing. ECHELON and CALEA are two such examples started with Democrats in the white house. Under Clinton, after the Olypmic bombing, similar ratcheting up of survelliance in the name of anti-terror occured (Digital Telephony, the Communications Assistant to Law Enforcement Act, Aviation Security and Anti-Terrosim Act, Anti-Terrorism Law Enforcement Act). As described in one artcile:
That's why the "BUT THE LAST GUY..." thing doesn't work so well.
Because when it comes to politics, there's always a reasonable argument that "the last guy" was actually just building upon the same things "the last guy!" before him was doing, and so on and so on. Few things are the first instances of encroachment, it simply is another step...another step...another step.
Jun 6, 2013
WASHINGTON, D.C. - Sen. Rand Paul today released the following statement in response to news of the NSA extensive seizure and surveillance of Americans' Verizon phone records.
The National Security Agency's seizure and surveillance of virtually all of Verizon's phone customers is an astounding assault on the Constitution. After revelations that the Internal Revenue Service targeted political dissidents and the Department of Justice seized reporters' phone records, it would appear that this Administration has now sunk to a new low.
When Sen. Mike Lee and I offered an amendment that would attach Fourth Amendment protections to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act last year, it was defeated, and FISA was passed by an overwhelming majority of the Senate. At the time, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid remarked that FISA was "necessary to protect us from the evil in this world."
The Bill of Rights was designed to protect us from evil, too, particularly that which always correlates with concentrated government power, and particularly Executive power. If the President and Congress would obey the Fourth Amendment we all swore to uphold, this new shocking revelation that the government is now spying on citizens' phone data en masse would never have happened.
Yeah, I don't understand some people's reactions here. This is unacceptable under Obama just as it was unacceptable under Bush. It's really not that complicated.I would hope at some point we who lean right and left which have a problem with this could put our partisanship aside and band together against things like this. Unfortunately, there's too much knee-jerk to criticisms of Bush and Obama. Both are in the wrong here, and there's nothing wrong with criticizing someone you may ideology agree with most of the time when they do something you clearly find wrong.
Shocking that would be!!!
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