Research completed into why COVID-19 deaths blown way out of proportion

[year2late]

What an idiotic post. As long as there is the slightest HINT of Covid-19, the doctors put it down as such. Why wouldn't they? They were ordered to. No tests needed. No autopsies. Their bills paid 100% under Medicare.

I have a question. A person that has stable cardiovascular disease and diet controlled diabetes is 65 years old. Gets covid-19. Ends up with pneumonia and ARDS and dies.
Should this be a covid-19 death?

 

[BlueTex]

What an idiotic post. As long as there is the slightest HINT of Covid-19, the doctors put it down as such. Why wouldn't they? They were ordered to. No tests needed. No autopsies. Their bills paid 100% under Medicare.

How do you explain the doubling of New York City deaths?



Deaths in New York City Are More Than Double the Usual Total - The New York Times

 

[Paradoxical]

I have a question. A person that has stable cardiovascular disease and diet controlled diabetes is 65 years old. Gets covid-19. Ends up with pneumonia and ARDS and dies.
Should this be a covid-19 death?

This is a ridiculous argument intended to divert

 

[year2late]

This is a ridiculous argument intended to divert

It should be a very easy question.

I have a question. A person that has stable cardiovascular disease and diet controlled diabetes is 65 years old. Gets covid-19. Ends up with pneumonia and ARDS and dies.
Should this be a covid-19 death?

 

[JasperL]

Birx says government is classifying all deaths of patients with coronavirus as '''COVID-19''' deaths, regardless of cause | Fox News

We don't have monthly flu figures so it can't be done that way. I think the current climate is to throw in drug overdoses, shootings, swallowing a snake and who knows what all but I would say the only thing we can use is the 37,000. Every death past that would be over normal.

Agreed?

You cited a Fox News article whose headline is a lie. No, we don't agree that damned lies spread by the hacks at Fox News are a sound basis for analysis.

 

[JasperL]

The bottom line is this:

The Democrats have been trying to destroy this country for the past FIVE years.

They've finally found a way, and they've head-locked Trump into going along with their sociopathic agenda.

We have 2 & 1/2 weeks to get back to work, go on the government dole permanently, or watch the country descend into civil war.

Yes, Trump and dozens of Republicans governors, and of course governments all over the globe, all at the mercy of "The Democrats" and their corrupt agenda. And it's sociopathic to limit the spread of a deadly virus. Makes sense for MAGA idiots, I guess.

 

[roguenuke]

Show any sort of evidence they are including shootings, snake bites, drug overdoses, or anything of that nature, per your last paragraph in with covid19 deaths.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[JasperL]

What an idiotic post. As long as there is the slightest HINT of Covid-19, the doctors put it down as such. Why wouldn't they? They were ordered to. No tests needed. No autopsies. Their bills paid 100% under Medicare.

That's made up bull****. Virtually every line is a lie.

 

[JasperL]

This is a ridiculous argument intended to divert

No it's not. You're asserting counting that as a COVID 19 death is a conspiracy to defraud Medicare, and that thousands of doctors are engaged in this conspiracy.

 

[BlueTex]

No it's not. You're asserting counting that as a COVID 19 death is a conspiracy to defraud Medicare, and that thousands of doctors are engaged in this conspiracy.

And he still hasn't explained this:



Deaths in New York City Are More Than Double the Usual Total - The New York Times

 

[ataraxia]

The bottom line is this:

The Democrats have been trying to destroy this country for the past FIVE years.

They've finally found a way, and they've head-locked Trump into going along with their sociopathic agenda.

We have 2 & 1/2 weeks to get back to work, go on the government dole permanently, or watch the country descend into civil war.

Yes, we need to go back to looking at legitimate concerns, like Obama's secret Kenyan birth certificate, for 6 years straight.

Or maybe stopping all stimulus spending in a crisis, but only if a Democrat is in the Whitehouse.

Or refusing to raise the debt ceiling so that our country's credit rating gets downgraded, but only if a Democrat is in the Whitehouse.

That's all being patriotic and fiscally responsible. But an epidemic that's killed 16000+ Americans despite our best efforts? Oh, that's just Democrats trying to destroy this country.

Yeah OK.

 

[JasperL]

And he still hasn't explained this:

Deaths in New York City Are More Than Double the Usual Total - The New York Times

You're confused and must think facts matter to these right wing arguments. I'll assume this was an oversight - please don't allow this to happen in the future. Thanks in advance!

Bottom line is the right wing has decided to downplay the virus, and claim the deaths are overcounted, and blame it on Democrats, and ignore it's GOP governors who are also shutting down their states as well, and it's all in a cynical attempt to blame the economic fallout on the liberals, etc. It's just more evidence the right wing has clearly gone over the edge into a movement that's corrupt at its core.

I saw Bill Bennet on Fox making the "it's the FLU!!" and "it's not and never has been a pandemic" argument. Maybe he's run up some more gambling debts and needs something to do to pay them off. Whatever it is, he's a lying moron, but he's advancing what's clearly a coordinated right wing agenda at this point.

 

[Artymoon]

Show any sort of evidence they are including shootings, snake bites, drug overdoses, or anything of that nature, per your last paragraph in with covid19 deaths.

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Trauma related patients are obviously listed as such, medical related patients, who knows? But if people think hospitals aren't receiving funding for Covid related incidents then they obviously have never worked in healthcare. I'm not saying it's happening, but not hard to imagine overworked and overcrowded facilities "checking a box" and moving on to the next one.

 

[JasperL]

Trauma related patients are obviously listed as such, medical related patients, who knows? But if people think hospitals aren't receiving funding for Covid related incidents then they obviously have never worked in healthcare. I'm not saying it's happening, but not hard to imagine overworked and overcrowded facilities "checking a box" and moving on to the next one.

Yes, but if they ARE overworked because of overcrowded conditions, it's not a question whether they have a lot of new COVID 19 patients, since much of the rest of the elective healthcare has gone to near 0. They are being overrun with COVID 19 patients, and the financial losses are going to be staggering, so it's not really clear where the systemic problem is in this scenario.

And what the poster in question is alleging is thousands of doctors engaging in a conspiracy to commit Medicare fraud, and he's lying about it. It's actually not a good argument when the foundation is a deliberate falsehood. No one is ordering doctors to fraudulently record the cause of death. If someone dies of a drug overdose, no one is even suggesting doctors report it as a CV19 death. What might happen is if they present with fever, persistent cough, consistent with CV19, quickly deteriorate and die, that's being recorded as a CV19 death when arguably it could possibly be unrelated. OK, well, again, so what, really? If we want to condition billing on positive tests and autopsies, that's fine, make it a requirement. Of course it would be a massive waste of resources for overworked and overburdened healthcare facilities, but if that's the cost of avoiding an improper reimbursement for systems that have seen their revenues plummet due to CV19 fears putting a hold on elective procedures, then let's do it.

 

[Artymoon]

Yes, but if they ARE overworked because of overcrowded conditions, it's not a question whether they have a lot of new COVID 19 patients, since much of the rest of the elective healthcare has gone to near 0. They are being overrun with COVID 19 patients, and the financial losses are going to be staggering, so it's not really clear where the systemic problem is in this scenario.

And what the poster in question is alleging is thousands of doctors engaging in a conspiracy to commit Medicare fraud, and he's lying about it. It's actually not a good argument when the foundation is a deliberate falsehood. No one is ordering doctors to fraudulently record the cause of death. If someone dies of a drug overdose, no one is even suggesting doctors report it as a CV19 death. What might happen is if they present with fever, persistent cough, consistent with CV19, quickly deteriorate and die, that's being recorded as a CV19 death when arguably it could possibly be unrelated. OK, well, again, so what, really? If we want to condition billing on positive tests and autopsies, that's fine, make it a requirement. Of course it would be a massive waste of resources for overworked and overburdened healthcare facilities, but if that's the cost of avoiding an improper reimbursement for systems that have seen their revenues plummet due to CV19 fears putting a hold on elective procedures, then let's do it.

Go into any Metro area ER at any given time of the year and you'll see overworked and overcrowded conditions. People are scared by what the read, hear and see that any little cough, sniffle, headache, etc. are causing people to flock to facilities and hence Covid related. Elective procedures are a different ballgame and that is certainly revenue that has been lost/delayed. All the more reason to receive as much Federal funding as possible.

I'm only suggesting that these are extraordinary times and standard operating procedures have probably been relaxed or even temporarily amended.

 

[Paradoxical]

How do you explain the doubling of New York City deaths?

View attachment 67277788

Deaths in New York City Are More Than Double the Usual Total - The New York Times

Well now, thank you for this research that I have been asking for in my other thread. It shows you can do it if you just tried. It was really the missing link in the equation and I knew if I just threw it out there that one of you would unwittingly prove e right, as so many often do here. I know that this wasn't your intent but it is appreciated. The NY Times article (your GOTO paper) says that, and I quote,

But even if the current count is perfect, roughly 9,780 people have died of all causes over the past month in New York City, about 5,000 more than is typical.

I said in a previous post(s) that I thought the deaths reported are blown out of proportion by at last half. The above comment and chart(s) show I was correct. When the deaths in New York were at the "9,780" above, the NORMAL death rate was 4780, or rounded off to 50%. (10,000 deaths total, less 5,000 normal = 50%)

If you look at the chart which is just for New York and just for the winter season, in 2000 there were over 6000 deaths, in 2005 about 5500. From my other research, NY City has 5000 deaths each month and if you toss out shootings and car accidents, you would get at last 4000 regular deaths and the chart would seem to confirm this, meaning that since we are in the flu season, New York could have expected 10000 deaths since they began to track this Corona virus about two months ago without NO COVID-19.

Pursuant to the near demand by Dr. Brix that they include a death as a COVID-19 death if there is as much as a hint of COVID-19 even WITHOUT testing or autopsy, what we are REALLY looking at is EXTRA deaths of maybe 3000 tops in New York from this virus.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Paradoxical]

That's made up bull****. Virtually every line is a lie.

Read her statement and then go to the CDC website and see what it says.

The relief bill includes 100 BILLION dollars for uninsured COVID-19 patients and New York has one third of its population uninsured (because of many illegals) and Cuomo refused additional funding for MediCAID in 2018 and knew NY would go broke without federal aid.

Think clearly and logically and coolly, jasper; not emotionally.

 

[Paradoxical]

No it's not. You're asserting counting that as a COVID 19 death is a conspiracy to defraud Medicare, and that thousands of doctors are engaged in this conspiracy.

You want the exact wording again?

You want the link to where Cuomo refused to fund MediCaid two years ago?

You want to the link to thre being 1/3rd of New Yorkers uninsured, and how that would bankrupt New York, so they needed a way to pay for the uninsured?

 

[ataraxia]

You want the exact wording again?

You want the link to where Cuomo refused to fund MediCaid two years ago?

So why aren't you a Cuomo fan?

 

[BlueTex]

Well now, thank you for this research that I have been asking for in my other thread. It shows you can do it if you just tried. It was really the missing link in the equation and I knew if I just threw it out there that one of you would unwittingly prove e right, as so many often do here. I know that this wasn't your intent but it is appreciated. The NY Times article (your GOTO paper) says that, and I quote,

Your research did not include a simple google search? Forgive me for questioning your research skills if this article didn't pop right to the top of an initial search...

I said in a previous post(s) that I thought the deaths reported are blown out of proportion by at last half. The above comment and chart(s) show I was correct. When the deaths in New York were at the "9,780" above, the NORMAL death rate was 4780, or rounded off to 50%. (10,000 deaths total, less 5,000 normal = 50%)

If you look at the chart which is just for New York and just for the winter season, in 2000 there were over 6000 deaths, in 2005 about 5500. From my other research, NY City has 5000 deaths each month and if you toss out shootings and car accidents, you would get at last 4000 regular deaths and the chart would seem to confirm this, meaning that since we are in the flu season, New York could have expected 10000 deaths since they began to track this Corona virus about two months ago without NO COVID-19.

Pursuant to the near demand by Dr. Brix that they include a death as a COVID-19 death if there is as much as a hint of COVID-19 even WITHOUT testing or autopsy, what we are REALLY looking at is EXTRA deaths of maybe 3000 tops in New York from this virus.

Thanks for the link.

Why are there so many deaths, of any cause, this month compared to the last 10 years?

 

[Paradoxical]

So why aren't you a Cuomo fan?

WHY would I be a Cuomo fan? I think his state SHOULD go broke. Trump bailed his ass out and I wouldn't have. If those COVID-19 deaths had to go under MediCAID like the flu deaths did in NY in 2018, his state and many of the hospitals would have gone belly up. This is what WOULD happen when you allow illegal aliens into your state who don't buy insurance....unless you concoct a plan to bail out New York by paying for all that witha HUNDRED BILLION.

We can't afford 5 BILLION for a wall and we can afford a HUNDRED billion for medical care for deadbeats and illegals??

 

[Paradoxical]

Your research did not include a simple google search? Forgive me for questioning your research skills if this article didn't pop right to the top of an initial search...




Why are there so many deaths, of any cause, this month compared to the last 10 years?

This is a slightly worse strain of flu
They allowed a parade to go on, infecting tens of thousands
They are packed with Asian people....largest in the US.
They have the oldest people in the US

Any more questions?

 

[Lovebug]

Tell that to Cuomo, DeBlasio, Pelosi and the Dr. Saya Madad who all encouraged everyone to attend the Chinese New Years parade and they did, turning out by the tens of thousands. This was AFTER it was known the virus was serious business. They have blood on their hands. Particularly the Dr. and Cuomo who had gone through this before, auctioned off masks, and Cuomo who in December of 2016, vetoed a bill offering reimbursements to hospitals that provide a disproportionate share of care to Medicaid patients as well as the uninsured, writing that it would result in increased and unbudgeted costs to the Medicaid program. They are fools.

Otoh, just like Trump, along with many experts, the aforementioned have learned and adjusted as more information came about.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Trump screwed up. Trump fanboys will cover for him.



We all need to get use to these Trump "cover" threads. They won't stop.

 

[Paradoxical]

Otoh, just like Trump, along with many experts, the aforementioned have learned and adjusted as more information came about.

Cuomo and the Dr. didn't adjust AT ALL.Where do you get this?