Republicans seize control of GOP from Neocons

[Macintosh]

I'm sorry you have a hard time explaining your point.

You just refuse to admit the obvious: neocons exist; they are liberal hawks, essentially, more concerned with the protection of Israel than they are with what is in the best interest of the United States. I'm all for protecting Israel, but these neocons you refuse to acknowledge even exist, fancy preemptive attacks and launching a blitzkrieg on an entire nation - Lebanon - for the crimes of comparatively few people, i.e. Hezbollah.

 

[sazerac]

You may be a neocon......

...if you call anyone who disagrees with you a traitor

...if you support nation building no matter the cost

...if you can read minds and therefore can know when pre-emptive war is justified

...if you borrow money like it doesn't have to be paid back, ever

...if you think Jesus was more worried about buttsex than the poor

Disagrees with ME? I have never said that. You are a traitor if you call the president a liar and turn your back on your country during a war.

Nation building? Is that something new to this country? So there needs to be the letters N E O to explain that this is somehow different than the Spanish American War or Chile or Vietnam or Korea.....

Oh, doesn't Bush have crystal ball that tells him everything? You all act like he should.

Everybody was all for the war until things started going rough and then it became easier to abadon the country than support it.

And now your desperate to come up with a credible reason for having committed treason before Bush gets out of office.

Glad I'm not you all because there's never going to be a legitimate reason.

 

[Tucker Case]

Disagrees with ME? I have never said that. You are a traitor if you call the president a liar and turn your back on your country during a war.

Nation building? Is that something new to this country? So there needs to be the letters N E O to explain that this is somehow different than the Spanish American War or Chile or Vietnam or Korea.....

Oh, doesn't Bush have crystal ball that tells him everything? You all act like he should.

Everybody was all for the war until things started going rough and then it became easier to abadon the country than support it.

And now your desperate to come up with a credible reason for having committed treason before Bush gets out of office.

Glad I'm not you all because there's never going to be a legitimate reason.

Neo means "new". It's not a negative in and of itself. That's your problem. You don't understand that the word is not the same as neo-Nazi (new-Nazi).


The Neo-conservativce is the NEW conservative that came into the republican party as a liberal, but plays around with certain so-called "conservative" ideas.

They love Patriotism and the Cross and they don't let nobody stand in the way of America, **** Yeah!

 

[Thorgasm]

Disagrees with ME? I have never said that. You are a traitor if you call the president a liar and turn your back on your country during a war.

Nation building? Is that something new to this country? So there needs to be the letters N E O to explain that this is somehow different than the Spanish American War or Chile or Vietnam or Korea.....

Oh, doesn't Bush have crystal ball that tells him everything? You all act like he should.

Everybody was all for the war until things started going rough and then it became easier to abadon the country than support it.

And now your desperate to come up with a credible reason for having committed treason before Bush gets out of office.

Glad I'm not you all because there's never going to be a legitimate reason.

I'm sorry that PNAC doesn't have a website anymore. Check the Heritage Foundation.

 

[missypea]

You are a traitor if you call the president a liar and turn your back on your country during a war.

Oh, doesn't Bush have crystal ball that tells him everything? You all act like he should.

Everybody was all for the war until things started going rough and then it became easier to abadon the country than support it.

And now your desperate to come up with a credible reason for having committed treason before Bush gets out of office.

Bold parts:
1) Americans are not traitors because they disagree with the president or despise his decisions.
Are you going to back every decision that President Obama makes...and when you don't are you going to take yourself in your room for self flagellation?

2) No-one is perfect, BUT most people expect their leader to make good decisions for the country and for them...overall. Bush didn't deliver....consistently. A crystal ball isn't required to be a leader with good judgment. Bush was a terrible president.

3) Everyone was certainly not for the war. There were many of us who were against the war before it ever started.

4) At this point, I just want him gone.



sazerac, you've been in a few threads asking about what a neocon is and it's been described to you multiple times. It's pretty clear that your just playing a game. Why don't you just come clean and admit that you don't like the definition or just get past it.

There could have been a decent discussion here if it weren't for the silly games.

 

[Zyphlin]

Nobody here has posted a definition that makes a lick of sense. It's a word that sounds like neonazi. That's my only definition.

Funny, NUMEROUS people have given you definition. YOU are the only one that dooesn't make a lick of sense because you have provided ZERO reason why any of these definitions are not acceptable save for "it sounds like neonazi".

Give me a ****ing break. You're not here to debate, you're here to state your point, put your foot down, ignore what anyone else says, and feel smug and superior like you've proven something which all you've pretty much proven is you're not actually here to debate.

I won't speak for everyone, I'll simply speak for myself. What exactly about my definition do you believe is wrong, or are you claiming that the definition I gave is the definition of a traditional conservative?

 

[sazerac]

Funny, NUMEROUS people have given you definition. YOU are the only one that dooesn't make a lick of sense because you have provided ZERO reason why any of these definitions are not acceptable save for "it sounds like neonazi".

I have shown that your definitions are nothing new to this country and go back practically to our founding.

Give me a ****ing break. You're not here to debate, you're here to state your point, put your foot down, ignore what anyone else says, and feel smug and superior like you've proven something which all you've pretty much proven is you're not actually here to debate.

I won't speak for everyone, I'll simply speak for myself. What exactly about my definition do you believe is wrong, or are you claiming that the definition I gave is the definition of a traditional conservative?

It's the definition of American foreign policy, both republican and democrat, since at least the end of WWII.

And given that it is never used for any reason here other than to insult members I am having a hard time understanding why a moderator would be so eager to defend it.

 

[Tucker Case]

You never said anything about my definition. It was far more intricate than simply American policy (liberal policies I might add).

 

[Thorgasm]

I have shown that your definitions are nothing new to this country and go back practically to our founding.



It's the definition of American foreign policy, both republican and democrat, since at least the end of WWII.

And given that it is never used for any reason here other than to insult members I am having a hard time understanding why a moderator would be so eager to defend it.

Are you so far out there that you think the term originated here at DP? :2razz:

 

[missypea]

And given that it is never used for any reason here other than to insult members I am having a hard time understanding why a moderator would be so eager to defend it.

In this thread the term neocon has been used in a general form. Has anyone called you a neocon...yet? In any event neocons are part of our political landscape and a concern to both political parties. They're going to be talked about so you should find a way to come to terms with it.....seriously.

I find it telling that you feel insulted about it.

:rofl

 

[UtahBill]

Yes, I don't abandon my country and my president just because traitors gang up and start telling lies about him. Lies that are easily disproved by doing a little investigation.

It appears only about 28% of the people in this country are willing to spend that time.

Your use of the word traitors tells a lot about you....
Do you think the GOP should be at war with the rest of the country?
Traitor is a term used to express disloyalty to your country, and being a member of a different thinking group or party is not being disloyal to your country.....

 

[Tucker Case]

I've never used neo-con as an insult.

 

[UtahBill]

They are traitors for lying about our president.

Not acceptable. Ever.

and if they are NOT lying? but telling the truth? who then is the traitor, if not GWB?

 

[UtahBill]

I'm sorry you have a hard time explaining your point.

we have a hard time comprehending yours...happens when you are not making sense...

 

[Zyphlin]

I have shown that your definitions are nothing new to this country and go back practically to our founding.

It's the definition of American foreign policy, both republican and democrat, since at least the end of WWII.

Really? Perhaps I missed that. Links?

And given that it is never used for any reason here other than to insult members I am having a hard time understanding why a moderator would be so eager to defend it.

Um, well, that's a wonderful opinion you have there about it never being used for any reason but to insult a member. You're opinion is horribly wrong, ignorant in the context of the forum, and factually wrong...but its wonderful you have an opinion about it.

Neocon, the term, has been used on this forum before for things other than insulting other members.

"Socialist" has been used to insult other members before. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Does it mean that its not a branch off of Liberalism that has enough differences from the mainstream view of liberalism that it warrants its own definition? No, it doesn't.

Neocon is a branch of conservatism that thinks in a different way than the traditional conservative. It has a definition. It is not any more of a made up, make believed word than fascist, libertarian, socialist, constitutionalist, communist, or anything else.

CAN Neocon be used as a means of "insult"? Yes. Much like Socialist can. Or "Left Winger" or "Right Winger" could technically be. Hell, we've had someone turn "My [insert political alliegance] Friend" into an insult. Does that mean the phrase "My Friend" doesn't exist and is unequiviocally an insult because someone can use it as such?

Just because something can be used as an insult doesn't mean that's all it is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and doesn't mean it can't be discussed. Neconservatism IS an actual political ideology, that's why I defend the use of it as a term. I don't defend it as a means of specifically attacking, though even then if we gave out infractions for people calling people a political ideology they don't believe they represent there would be SIGNIFICANTLY less people on this forum.

 

[sazerac]

In this thread the term neocon has been used in a general form. Has anyone called you a neocon...yet? In any event neocons are part of our political landscape and a concern to both political parties. They're going to be talked about so you should find a way to come to terms with it.....seriously.

I find it telling that you feel insulted about it.

:rofl

So one member says it has to do with Jews. You say the neocons were created by the religious right.

Face it! It's just a stupid word that you like to use to insult conservatives.

I'm asking you all to stop using it. If you can't then we don't have to play nice around here. Whatever you like.

 

[Thorgasm]

So one member says it has to do with Jews. You say the neocons were created by the religious right.

Face it! It's just a stupid word that you like to use to insult conservatives.

I'm asking you all to stop using it. If you can't then we don't have to play nice around here. Whatever you like.

Who appointed you the chancellor of the rules?

 

[Macintosh]

So one member says it has to do with Jews. You say the neocons were created by the religious right.

Face it! It's just a stupid word that you like to use to insult conservatives.

I'm asking you all to stop using it. If you can't then we don't have to play nice around here. Whatever you like.

The majority of neoconservatives ARE JEWISH! That's a fact. Or, rather than accept it as such, would you rather call me anti-Semite?

 

[Tucker Case]

So one member says it has to do with Jews. You say the neocons were created by the religious right.

Face it! It's just a stupid word that you like to use to insult conservatives.

I'm asking you all to stop using it. If you can't then we don't have to play nice around here. Whatever you like.

The religious right is fairly Zionist, actually. Hagee being a good example. Just saying that these two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Macintosh]

Before I receieve an infraction for being an anti-Semite, have a gander:

US News / Special: Empire Builders / Neocon 101 | Christian Science Monitor

The original neocons were a small group of mostly Jewish liberal intellectuals who, in the 1960s and 70s, grew disenchanted with what they saw as the American left's social excesses and reluctance to spend adequately on defense. Many of these neocons worked in the 1970s for Democratic Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a staunch anti-communist. By the 1980s, most neocons had become Republicans, finding in President Ronald Reagan an avenue for their aggressive approach of confronting the Soviet Union with bold rhetoric and steep hikes in military spending. After the Soviet Union's fall, the neocons decried what they saw as American complacency. In the 1990s, they warned of the dangers of reducing both America's defense spending and its role in the world.​

That trend has continued today.

 

[Zyphlin]

The majority of neoconservatives ARE JEWISH! That's a fact. Or, rather than accept it as such, would you rather call me anti-Semite?

Do you have FACTS to actually back up the assertion that this is a fact, or are you just spouting off more of what's becoming very typical religious bigotry and over-generalization from you?

 

[sazerac]

The majority of neoconservatives ARE JEWISH! That's a fact. Or, rather than accept it as such, would you rather call me anti-Semite?

Explain that to Missypea. She has no idea about this Jewish connection. But she's an authority on the word just like everybody else around here.

 

[Iriemon]

They are traitors for lying about our president.

Not acceptable. Ever.

Bush: "The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda ..."

Lie. Report after report said there was no credible evidence of any corroborative relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda, including the CIA, Senate investigation, British intelligence, DIA, Israeli intellegence, and a presidential briefing memo Bush received 10 days after 9-11.

Yet Bush and his administration persisted in this lie that Iraq was an ally of Al Qaeda, to justify their war on Iraq because of 9-11.

And as far as lying, we're still waiting for those "senate investigations showed he did not lie" you claimed existed but then could only cite an op-ed piece after calling yet another member "traitor".

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...ms/38859-bush-s-legacy-15.html#post1057798010

You're good at thowing labels around, piss poor when it comes to backing up your claims. As far as people being "traitors", what would you call a person who blindly follows immoral policy and supports an immoral war based on lies simply because the Government is doing it, and demands others do the same?

A good label for that would be "fascist," if you want to throw infantile lables around.

 

[Macintosh]

Do you have FACTS to actually back up the assertion that this is a fact, or are you just spouting off more of what's becoming very typical religious bigotry and over-generalization from you?

Try reading the post above this one...Or, do the research you accuse your buddy of not doing...

 

[missypea]

Explain that to Missypea. She has no idea about this Jewish connection. But she's an authority on the word just like everybody else around here.

Obviously, I am not an authority. I told you plainly how I use the term. Since I've never tied Jewish people to it.....as you note, why are you harping on and on about this?

You didn't like my answer.....that's entirely your problem to deal with. If you use the term as code for "Jewish" make sure to mail out the decoder rings to the DP members otherwise we aren't going to know what in the heck your talking about.

Code..... :rofl