Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

[Caine]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

I saw this with my own eyes, on the news, this is not about sources. Now you may say that these two Senators are lying, or that I didn't see what I know I just saw, but I think I have been here long enough to be trusted to convey what I have seen on the news.

They had a brief 10 seconds about it on CNN.
They kinda blew it off as "nothing new"

 

[faithful_servant]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

I believe that sarin gas has a shelf-life of something like 3 months. Yeah, that's a real weapon of mass destruction. :lol:

Way to minimize the issue, aps. The fact that he had sarin is enough, the fact that it's no longer dangerous takes nothing away from the fact that just as was stated by a whole bunch of people, Iraq had highly dangerous chemical weapons.

 

[Caine]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Way to minimize the issue, aps. The fact that he had sarin is enough, the fact that it's no longer dangerous takes nothing away from the fact that just as was stated by a whole bunch of people, Iraq had highly dangerous chemical weapons.

We all knew they had them.
These "new WMDs" everyone is talking about are Pre-Gulf War munitions, which the majority of them were either empty shells or unusable, abandoned peices of ****.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

They are WMD's, those that said Saddam had destroyed his, or those that said inspectors have proven they don't exist, and those who said we have found "zero" were all wrong. Spin it any way you want, but they were there, they are still there, and now we have solid proof. I will also take the word of the professionals on the ground as to how "useless" they are, that's a ridiculous claim for anyone to make at this point.

Come on, normally you seem to be one of the most reasonable people on here. This is absurd though. The reason why this is not all over the news, and is not in a big glaring headline on Fox New's website is that it is not news. If we found a weapons cash of chemical and or biological weapons that had been developed and stored while there were sanctions against Iraq, then this would be quite a find. However, what we have here is a small cache of pre-gulf war useless left overs. Probably if anything left over from the Iran / Iraq war. The Weapons Inspectors effectively disarmed Iraq. Are you honestly claiming that if Bush would have went before the American people before the war, and stated that Iraq was effectively disarmed, but that we had reason to believe that it was possibly hidding or could not account for about 500 filled and unfilled chemical weapons shells that were 15 years old or older, that with that, we would have went to war? Of course not. It would have been a joke. I mean come on, it would be ridiculous to think that some of this crap wasn't scattered around some old weapons dumps. They probably did not even know if they still had them or not. Doe not mean that it constituted any threat at all or that it was in anyway reason enough to commit half a trillion dollars, over 2,500 lives, and tens of thousands seriously injured. Of course not.

I mean come on, there are reasonable arguments to be made for this war, but a few hundred useless chemical weapons shells scattered about that were left over from the 80s is not one of them.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

We all knew they had them.
These "new WMDs" everyone is talking about are Pre-Gulf War munitions, which the majority of them were either empty shells or unusable, abandoned peices of ****.

ALL of which were to have been accounted for, and ALL of which were supposedly destroyed.

To find ANY is to prove that claims that they were accounted for and were destroyed are false.

Which leads a reasonable person to wonder what else is out there...

 

[oldreliable67]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

The fact that he had sarin is enough, the fact that it's no longer dangerous takes nothing away from the fact that just as was stated by a whole bunch of people, Iraq had highly dangerous chemical weapons.

We knew that he had this type of munition as late as '91. As documented by the Duefler Report, this is the type that he attempted to use against the Shiites in the south, which contributed to the establishment of the southern no-fly zone. The Iraqis dropped them by helicopter and they were ineffectual - wouldn't break up and disperse the gas - because they were designed to be dropped from altitude by a higher speed aircraft.

Granted, this is not the same as finding a whole bunch of WMDs of more recent vintage. Nonetheless, while these are older munitions, their discovery is not totally insignificant, in that their presence in these numbers confirms Saddam's unwillingness to account for them and reveal their presence to UN inspectors. In other words, this find makes the assertion that Saddam had destroyed all WMDs and had none remaining much more arguable, i.e., if these are still around, what else is still around?

 

[jfuh]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

I saw this with my own eyes, on the news, this is not about sources. Now you may say that these two Senators are lying, or that I didn't see what I know I just saw, but I think I have been here long enough to be trusted to convey what I have seen on the news.

With respect. I'm not saying your lieing about what you saw.
I am calling the source bias - that being the link in S. Dem's post as well as the two senators blowing out of proportion of something that's already known and refuted.
Hate to break it to you Deegan, but you were played by these guys. They've been playing us for a long time.

 

[jfuh]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

They had a brief 10 seconds about it on CNN.
They kinda blew it off as "nothing new"

The canisters aren't anything new. We knew the guy had mustard and Sarin gas a long time ago. Finding the empty canisters is hardly the smoking gun.
Now, if the canister chemical trace half life shows indeed that the shells were from '03, then that's a whole new ball game all together.

 

[RightinNYC]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Everyone take a breath.

Want links to this article? Here.

Report: Hundreds of WMDs Found in Iraq

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

Other relevant passages:

The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions.

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven itself to be untrue.

"It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.

"This is an incredibly — in my mind — significant finding. The idea that, as my colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle, that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.

Looks like there's things here to bolster both sides of the argument.

No, this does not prove that WMD's were created after 1991. It does not prove that they were usable. It does not prove that Saddam was still defying resolutions barring him from building them after 1991. It does not prove that the WMD's we thought were there were in fact there.

However, it DOES prove that Saddam disobeyed the order to destroy them all. It does prove that there were still dangerous WMD's in Iraq. It does prove that the inspections process was far from comprehensive or accurate. It does prove that Saddam had the capability and desire to, if not develop new WMD programs, at least to hide their existance from outside inspectors. It does prove that the rhetoric being used by some of the Democrats is in fact wrong. And it does prove that Saddam was likely involved in the selling of his extra WMD's to terrorist or rogue groups via the Black Market.

Personally, this isn't the slam dunk that I think many on the right were hoping for when they first heard the news, but I think it does offer some measure of satisfaction to those who believed that Saddam was a threat. It does conclusively prove that he was still dangerous, and had the capability for things we could neither stop nor detect.

Moderator's Warning:

Title fixed, link added, moved back to BN

 

[aquapub]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

You ever think maybe that was the point?

Think about it, you ever notice how the important stuff never seems to happen unless an important election is comming up?

When did we find Saddam? When all the buzz about the 2004 elections started stirring up in Dec of 03....

Now with the mid-terms comming up, we manage to find Zarquawi AND release info about finding WMDs.

Vierd.. very very veird.......

Yes, that's it. It's a conspiracy. Do Democrats ever get past the conspiracy theories and get to facts, evidence, substance?

 

[Caine]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Yes, that's it. It's a conspiracy. Do Democrats ever get past the conspiracy theories and get to facts, evidence, substance?

LOL..
Why don't you go back and read some of my other posts before you go pointing the crooked retard finger and saying, "You Liberals and Democrats!!!!!"

 

[Stinger]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

FOX is reporting it live. Nothing on their website yet.

 

[aquapub]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

The canisters aren't anything new. We knew the guy had mustard and Sarin gas a long time ago. Finding the empty canisters is hardly the smoking gun.
Now, if the canister chemical trace half life shows indeed that the shells were from '03, then that's a whole new ball game all together.

This is such a steaming load of BS and you know it. Just when I thought your credibility and integrity couldn't be anymore nonexistent, you sleaze down to the level of blowing off the smoking gun by arguing that since Saddam had them before 2003, the WMD find doesn't count.

Let's review...ONE OF THE MANY CLAIMS Bush made (which you, hipsterdufus, and Bill O'Really have crucified him for) was that Saddam POSSESSED WMD...PERIOD, NOT that he had brand new ones.

You have got to be the most intellectually dishonest person who has ever infected this site. :roll:

 

[aquapub]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

LOL..
Why don't you go back and read some of my other posts before you go pointing the crooked retard finger and saying, "You Liberals and Democrats!!!!!"

You portrayed this as a conspiracy.

I indicated disgust with the Left's hysterical knee-jerk reaction to call everything a conspiracy.

And this is what you respond with?

Um...ok.

Starting off something with "You liberals and Democrats" doesn't imply a conspiracy. It is analyzing a group. YOU are the only retard here.

 

[Stinger]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Guess this combined with the death of Zarqawi puts a damper in the Dems November campaign. :lol:

They will attempt to minimalize it and marginalize it but they can never use the excuse that Bush lied and "Where are the WMD's?" anymore. Of course it was bogus before but this pulls the rug out from under them. Gee Rove now this.

 

[Stinger]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

I believe that sarin gas has a shelf-life of something like 3 months. Yeah, that's a real weapon of mass destruction. :lol:

The former weapons inspector interviewed on Hannity & Colmes tonight said it would still be deadly, the mustard gas after sitting in the heat would polymerize.

But so what? It's undeclared WMD 500 of them.

You just lost another issue you had tons invested in.

 

[Deegan]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Come on, normally you seem to be one of the most reasonable people on here. This is absurd though. The reason why this is not all over the news, and is not in a big glaring headline on Fox New's website is that it is not news. If we found a weapons cash of chemical and or biological weapons that had been developed and stored while there were sanctions against Iraq, then this would be quite a find. However, what we have here is a small cache of pre-gulf war useless left overs. Probably if anything left over from the Iran / Iraq war. The Weapons Inspectors effectively disarmed Iraq. Are you honestly claiming that if Bush would have went before the American people before the war, and stated that Iraq was effectively disarmed, but that we had reason to believe that it was possibly hidding or could not account for about 500 filled and unfilled chemical weapons shells that were 15 years old or older, that with that, we would have went to war? Of course not. It would have been a joke. I mean come on, it would be ridiculous to think that some of this crap wasn't scattered around some old weapons dumps. They probably did not even know if they still had them or not. Doe not mean that it constituted any threat at all or that it was in anyway reason enough to commit half a trillion dollars, over 2,500 lives, and tens of thousands seriously injured. Of course not.

I mean come on, there are reasonable arguments to be made for this war, but a few hundred useless chemical weapons shells scattered about that were left over from the 80s is not one of them.

You're correct in much of what you say, and after hearing more about this, I don't think it's the "bombshell" we were looking for. That said, I think that I agree with what RightatNYU has said, there is a story here, and one has to ask themselves if more of these weapons are still out there.

 

[Alex]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

They will attempt to minimalize it and marginalize it but they can never use the excuse that Bush lied and "Where are the WMD's?" anymore. Of course it was bogus before but this pulls the rug out from under them. Gee Rove now this.

These news conferences are nothing but a desperate attempt by Santorum to gain votes. The reports specifically call these munitions "degraded". They were in Iraq even before the Gulf War.

Republicans get more and more desperate every day. Its sad really.

 

[Caine]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

They will attempt to minimalize it and marginalize it but they can never use the excuse that Bush lied and "Where are the WMD's?" anymore. Of course it was bogus before but this pulls the rug out from under them. Gee Rove now this.

Okay.
You guys are trying to turn nothing into something just to show that the reason this adminstration gave the country for going to war is justified.

Personally, I don't think a small amount of scattered pre gulf war, unusable, filled and unfilled munitions that had most likely been sitting around collecting dust for years was a threat to our national security.

Arguing my point by saying, "BUT HE DIDN'T LIE!!! THEY DID HAVE WMD" is petty knowing what kind of WMD he had. The fact is, the "WMD" he had was not the threat to our national security that the administration convinced everyone that it was.

And THAT is the lie within his statement.

 

[Stinger]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

I know, it sounds a little... "conspiracy theory" like, but c'mon, you really think its a coincidence that all the good info comes out around election time????

Since that doesn't happen.............................

 

[RightinNYC]

Moderator's Warning:

Enough with the name calling. Any more of that and you're off the thread.

 

[Stinger]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Moderator's Warning:

Think what you want. Those are the rules, and all threads in this forum follow it. Notice all the [title changed]s? No link at all? I'm moving to "War in Iraq." Feel free to restart it when this "breaking news" actually hits the news. We don't make special allowances, even for you.

Only internet links count? The link is "watch FOX news tonight", they are discussing it in detail, several here have already confirmed it.

 

[Caine]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Since that doesn't happen.............................

Zarqawi Dead the year of Mid-Terms.
Saddam captured right during a time when the hype of the 2004 elections was getting started.
Now this bit of into, released by the same guy who has been sucking in support from his state lately.

Im not saying its done on purpose, im saying its an "odd" coincidence.
But thats not even what is being discussed anymore.
Everyone else has moved past it. I think you should too.

 

[RightinNYC]

Re: WMD's FOUND!!!

Okay.
You guys are trying to turn nothing into something just to show that the reason this adminstration gave the country for going to war is justified.

Personally, I don't think a small amount of scattered pre gulf war, unusable, filled and unfilled munitions that had most likely been sitting around collecting dust for years was a threat to our national security.

Arguing my point by saying, "BUT HE DIDN'T LIE!!! THEY DID HAVE WMD" is petty knowing what kind of WMD he had. The fact is, the "WMD" he had was not the threat to our national security that the administration convinced everyone that it was.

And THAT is the lie within his statement.

While this is true, its important to see the flip side.

In the lead up to war, some of the strongest arguments for war were:

1. Saddam had previously had possession of some WMD that we knew about.
2. We had intelligence that claimed that instead of destroying all of it like the UN ordered him to, he had kept some.
3. We had intelligence that claimed that Saddam had no intention of complying with inspectors, no matter what.
4. We had intelligence that claimed that he was then selling some of those WMD on the black market to terrorist groups or rogue nations.
5. We had intelligence that claimed that his ability to possess, transport, and hide WMD's was not hindered in any significant manner by the existing sanctions.

And you know what? Every single one of those claims turned out to be true.

If you had presented those 5 arguments by themselves in 2003 (in addition to the humanitarian ones) and argued for war on those grounds, I would wager that we would still be in Iraq.

To me, and this is just me, once this is confirmed, it will have been sufficient justification for the invasion.

 

[Jerry]

Erm, okay....there's a story about WMDs, which is true, but old and factually irrelevant to the present situation.....political timing....a dash of hubbub.....so, is this a yellow or blue alert?