Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Details

[iliveonramen]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

I think I'd be more inclined to either call it a desertion (which it appears that it really is) and leave him there, or have the SEALS go in and get him, causing as many casualties as possible in the process, so as to discourage future instances of the same. Didn't we do that with Jessica Lynch? IIRC.

It seems to be desertion. Leaving anyone that is in that country due to orders leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I do remember Jessica Lynch being saved by Navy SEALs. I don't know enough about Bergdhal situation though. Did we know where he was kept? Did we have access to it? I dunno. I don't know if I'd want to risk the live of any SEALs either.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

it went straight into hyperpartisan mode right off of the bat, even before much was known. i post something like "this is a good thing. i can't imagine what he went through. i'm very glad that he is being released." that was enough to set the hyperpartisan hivemind on me like i had swatted a hornet's nest. **** that. you guys can hate Obama all you want, and the other side can defend his every move. i give zero ****s about it. i'm more interested in brainstorming solutions for serious problems and in getting every last soldier out of that region. the war in Afghanistan should have been stopped years ago. in fact, had anyone actually read a history book, he or she would have known that Afghanistan cannot be occupied by a foreign power. it is the graveyard of empires, and it toppled one as recently as the 1980s. bring them all home now.

Sorry Helix, but since when is a 5 to 1 + $5B considered a good results from negotiation? For what appears to be a deserter? Only encouraging more of the same extortion from these terrorists? You do realize what those $5B are going to be spent on, right? More weapons and recruiting to attack the West even more strongly. How's that a good negotiating result?

As I've posted, I'd be far more in favor of going in my force and taking him back, if only to discourage more of the same in the future.

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

The terrorist organizations in Afghanistan aren't participants in the Geneva conventions. They don't act in accordance with the conventions. I'm assuming the administration believed that once we left there was a greater chance we would never get the soldier back.

We do. :shrug:

 

[Helix]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Sorry Helix, but since when is a 5 to 1 + $5B considered a good results from negotiation? For what appears to be a deserter? Only encouraging more of the same extortion from these terrorists? You do realize what those $5B are going to be spent on, right? More weapons and recruiting to attack the West even more strongly. How's that a good negotiating result?

As I've posted, I'd be far more in favor of going in my force and taking him back, if only to discourage more of the same in the future.

honestly, i just don't care who we release. just get the troops out of there now, and don't sign us up for another one. i've become fairly convinced that messing around in that region is just going to keep resulting in something even worse than the demon that was taken out. let **** stabilize there for thirty or forty years, and tell Saudi Arabia to do its ****ing job as regional hegemon.

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

That's not my argument. I'm arguing he was there on orders, in a war zone, therefore America should of done everything it could to get him back before we pulled out.

He was there on orders until he deserted.

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

It seems to be desertion. Leaving anyone that is in that country due to orders leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

You don't seem to understand the significance of "desertion", legal or ethical.

I do remember Jessica Lynch being saved by Navy SEALs. I don't know enough about Bergdhal situation though. Did we know where he was kept? Did we have access to it? I dunno. I don't know if I'd want to risk the live of any SEALs either.

People died searching for Bergdahl. After he deserted.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

You don't seem to understand the significance of "desertion", legal or ethical.

I've never deserted but I'm not sure how you believe you have some deeper insight into desertion than I do? What is it I don't seem to understand?

 

[WCH]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Do you know what we don't see here?

We don't see the name of anyone from the U.S.Army that said any of this.

IOW: This is all BS.

It's being reported on the news here locally

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

I've never deserted but I'm not sure how you believe you have some deeper insight into desertion than I do? What is it I don't seem to understand?

I guess I do have a deeper insight, I served in the military for 24 years, I understand what desertion is, what it means, and how it affects one's legal position. You keep saying he was there "under orders", while you are misusing that phrase, I understand what you mean, but let me explain how it doesn't apply the way you think it does. There is a reciprocal duty between soldier and country. The soldier has a duty to follow lawful orders and the country has a duty to protect those that follow lawful orders. Now, that arrangement breaks down when either fails to uphold their end of the bargain. Every soldier goes into combat knowing that their expectation of the govts duty to them ends when they fail to faithfully execute their orders. You see, it's a two way street and you are only concerned with half of the arrangement.

That he deserted, in a time of war and in a combat zone has far deeper ramifications than you will acknowledge.

 

[WCH]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

It seems to be desertion. Leaving anyone that is in that country due to orders leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I do remember Jessica Lynch being saved by Navy SEALs. I don't know enough about Bergdhal situation though. Did we know where he was kept? Did we have access to it? I dunno. I don't know if I'd want to risk the live of any SEALs either.

Apparently there was a least one mission to free him that was unsuccessful and did have casualties/wounded. That blood is on him.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

I guess I do have a deeper insight, I served in the military for 24 years, I understand what desertion is, what it means, and how it affects one's legal position. You keep saying he was there "under orders", while you are misusing that phrase, I understand what you mean, but let me explain how it doesn't apply the way you think it does. There is a reciprocal duty between soldier and country. The soldier has a duty to follow lawful orders and the country has a duty to protect those that follow lawful orders. Now, that arrangement breaks down when either fails to uphold their end of the bargain. Every soldier goes into combat knowing that their expectation of the govts duty to them ends when they fail to faithfully execute their orders. You see, it's a two way street you you are only concerned with half of the arrangement.

That he deserted, in a time of war and in a combat zone has far deeper ramifications than you will acknowledge.

I'm not saying desertion in a time of war in a combat zone isn't a serious offense. I'm saying that he was over there in service of his country, desertion is a serious offense, but that doesn't mean we leave him in the hands of enemy forces.

 

[iliveonramen]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Apparently there was a least one mission to free him that was unsuccessful and did have casualties/wounded. That blood is on him.

That I agree with.

 

[Henrin]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

so was there any time in your life, when you truly loved your country?

i am not naive....i realize we are far from perfect

and many people like you almost show a disrespect for something i care deeply for....my country

but i guess that is why i served......to give others like you a voice....whether i agree with it or not

i may not like what you say....but i was one of those fighting to make sure you always have the right to say it

Not really. I can't say I ever really found anything to love about the country. It's great that you have a nation you love though.

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

I'm not saying desertion in a time of war in a combat zone isn't a serious offense. I'm saying that he was over there in service of his country, desertion is a serious offense, but that doesn't mean we leave him in the hands of enemy forces.

He was in service to his country up to the point he abandoned it. That's what desertion is. Abandonment. He turned his back on his country, his country did not turn it's back on him. Does that mean we should have simply left him? No. But it does mean that we shouldn't have surrendered far more valuable prisoners. We should have waited until the cessation of hostilities and then negotiated his release. If that was too late...well then, he shouldn't have departed the program.

 

[ludin]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion

Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was reportedly held captive by Taliban militants for five years, will be charged with desertion for leaving his post, according to sources of retired Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer. Bergdahl was only released after President Barack Obama negotiated with the terrorists, agreeing to release five prisoners from Guantanamo Bay.

Shaffer, senior fellow at the London Center for Policy Research, told Bill O’Reilly on Monday night that his sources have confirmed the Army has concluded its investigation and Bergdahl’s lawyer has been given a “charge sheet” informing him of the desertion charge.

snip

So Obama traded 5 terrorists/$5 billion for a deserter. Nice Barry

yeah that was a huge screw up.

 

[shrubnose]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

It's being reported on the news here locally

It's all total BS. Nothing has been decided and nothing has happened yet.

When the convening authority makes a decision it will be announced by the Army. That hasn't happened

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

honestly, i just don't care who we release. just get the troops out of there now, and don't sign us up for another one. i've become fairly convinced that messing around in that region is just going to keep resulting in something even worse than the demon that was taken out. let **** stabilize there for thirty or forty years, and tell Saudi Arabia to do its ****ing job as regional hegemon.

Seems that was pretty much the attitude of the entire country prior to 9/11. Guess we'll have to live through that once again, and perhaps then learn from it.

Helix, I really don't think that we can ignore the raise of Militant Islamic Fundamentalism (at least not at our own peril), not when it's 'Kill all the infidels' at it's core.
Ignore it long enough, and that wave will wash up on our shores, hardly the place were we'd want it to wash up. It seems to be washing up on Europe's shores already, given recent events.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Being former military, I have little sympathy for deserters. I think a trial is warranted, and if he's found guilty, he should be punished. But let's have the trial first.

I do think it's interesting that those on the far Right have much more contempt for Berghdahl than they do for Sgt. Robert Bales, who one day walked away from his post and murdered 16 Afghan women and children. Of course he did come back, so I guess that must explain it.

 

[mac]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Being former military, I have little sympathy for deserters. I think a trial is warranted, and if he's found guilty, he should be punished. But let's have the trial first.

I do think it's interesting that those on the far Right have much more contempt for Berghdahl than they do for Sgt. Robert Bales, who one day walked away from his post and murdered 16 Afghan women and children. Of course he did come back, so I guess that must explain it.

Who exactly on the right or anywhere else had respect for a mass murderer?

 

[gdgyva]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Being former military, I have little sympathy for deserters. I think a trial is warranted, and if he's found guilty, he should be punished. But let's have the trial first.

I do think it's interesting that those on the far Right have much more contempt for Berghdahl than they do for Sgt. Robert Bales, who one day walked away from his post and murdered 16 Afghan women and children. Of course he did come back, so I guess that must explain it.

i must have missed the thread on that one

can you point out where it is....i want to read where the far right posters said anything of the sort

link please

 

[WCH]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Being former military, I have little sympathy for deserters. I think a trial is warranted, and if he's found guilty, he should be punished. But let's have the trial first.

I do think it's interesting that those on the far Right have much more contempt for Berghdahl than they do for Sgt. Robert Bales, who one day walked away from his post and murdered 16 Afghan women and children. Of course he did come back, so I guess that must explain it.

Opps... you just went extreme liberal

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Being former military, I have little sympathy for deserters. I think a trial is warranted, and if he's found guilty, he should be punished. But let's have the trial first.

I do think it's interesting that those on the far Right have much more contempt for Berghdahl than they do for Sgt. Robert Bales, who one day walked away from his post and murdered 16 Afghan women and children. Of course he did come back, so I guess that must explain it.

Can you show me evidence of this claim? That would be horrible of them if true. IF not it would be a rather disgusting thing to say of them.

Thanks.

 

[Helix]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

Seems that was pretty much the attitude of the entire country prior to 9/11. Guess we'll have to live through that once again, and perhaps then learn from it.

Helix, I really don't think that we can ignore the raise of Militant Islamic Fundamentalism (at least not at our own peril), not when it's 'Kill all the infidels' at it's core.
Ignore it long enough, and that wave will wash up on our shores, hardly the place were we'd want it to wash up. It seems to be washing up on Europe's shores already, given recent events.

i don't think it's possible to eliminate the root problems externally. that region needs to handle its own problems for a while. the US has acted as a pro bono police force for long enough. we've installed puppet regimes, and have been intensely involved in the region for many decades now, and things just keep getting more and more unstable. maybe without us in the equation, pissed off young people there will turn their attention to who is really making their lives ****ty : their own leaders.

the alternative is pretty much all out war with the region and long term occupation. i don't see that working out, and i don't support it. those who do support it generally aren't willing to pay the taxes to fund it, and we simply can't afford it. plus, every time the US eliminates one threat, two more pop up, and the new organization is usually even worse than the one before it. i think it's best if we just get out of the Middle East for a while and focus on nation building here at home.

 

[gdgyva]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

i don't think it's possible to eliminate the root problems externally. that region needs to handle its own problems for a while. the US has acted as a pro bono police force for long enough. we've installed puppet regimes, and have been intensely involved in the region for many decades now, and things just keep getting more and more unstable. maybe without us in the equation, pissed off young people there will turn their attention to who is really making their lives ****ty : their own leaders.

the alternative is pretty much all out war with the region and long term occupation. i don't see that working out, and i don't support it. those who do support it generally aren't willing to pay the taxes to fund it, and we simply can't afford it. plus, every time the US eliminates one threat, two more pop up, and the new organization is usually even worse than the one before it. i think it's best if we just get out of the Middle East for a while and focus on nation building here at home.

i dont disagree with most of that

but one problem

they wont just "stay there"

so unless we actually close our border problem, they will bring jihad to us......

for the fundamentalists, we are infidels.....and we must be eliminated

and i dont see the fundamentalists going out of power anytime soon in that region

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Report: Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl to Be Charged for Desertion — Here Are the Detail

i don't think it's possible to eliminate the root problems externally. that region needs to handle its own problems for a while. the US has acted as a pro bono police force for long enough. we've installed puppet regimes, and have been intensely involved in the region for many decades now, and things just keep getting more and more unstable. maybe without us in the equation, pissed off young people there will turn their attention to who is really making their lives ****ty : their own leaders.

the alternative is pretty much all out war with the region and long term occupation. i don't see that working out, and i don't support it. those who do support it generally aren't willing to pay the taxes to fund it, and we simply can't afford it. plus, every time the US eliminates one threat, two more pop up, and the new organization is usually even worse than the one before it. i think it's best if we just get out of the Middle East for a while and focus on nation building here at home.

I don't disagree that we need to be nation building here at home. Especially if we take no action and this wave starts crashing onto our shores with ever greater ferocity, frequency and damage.

The observation that you just pointed out, "every time the US eliminates one threat, two more pop up", is it better to continue to allow these to pop up and gain strength and cost even more human lives before we take action?
Or is it better to take action while they are smaller, more manageable, and less human life is lost?

Seems to be a serious case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

We tried the wait and see thing once before, before WW II. Didn't really seem to work out all that well.

I suppose that one has to keep reminding ones self that these aren't really rational people as we have come to know and understand rational people from our perspective.