Religious school assignment - your thoughts?

[Fiddytree]

then you are admitting you are without the teaching skills to better inform me
i am not surprised


and i will continue to await your copy of the syllabus used in spiker's kid's class. the document which would provide proof whether this was a legitimate history assignment or a judeo-Christian indoctrination masquerading as a history assignment

No, Bubba. I educate when it makes sense to. Re-read the thread. I'm not the talking monkey that performs the same trick each time a poster asks the same question on the same thread. You're an adult, you can handle it. I don't need to baby you.

A syllabus may or may not tell you anything you want. It is unlikely that they will say "here's the exact movie I am playing". It's more likely to be rules and a tentative schedule.

 

[AGENT J]

You mean 8th graders. It's right there. The teacher's actual disposition toward the topics to the children is what matters, but Aunt and most of the posters on this thread have the absolutely wrong conclusion that you cannot have a film about a religious figure in history and have them write a paragraph on that person, or even discuss it. It's absolutely wrong.

yes i don mean 8th grades not sure how that changes anything i said.

and well i would never go that far and make a blanket statement like that but i also would never say its NOT a flag. It definitely is a flag that should be looked at and determined if its wrong based on context of the discussion and what the class is talking about.

My social studies classes nor my daughters (well she has two more to go) ever talked about mosses at any in depth level and they certainly didnt have a direct assignment on him, so thats way its a flag because world history can easily be taught at the MS to HS level with being indepth about moses or even mentioning him at all. I think thats peoples concern and its a legit one.

 

[Gina]

no, actually
it's a legitimate concern that religious indoctrination into the Christian faith is ongoing in our public schools
in this instance pretending to be a history lesson

I'm not a follower of any religion, and I don't want religious instruction or prayer in my kids' education. So, that said, I can intellectually accept that the discussion of the role of religion in world history is legitimate. Religion has been a strong motivator throughout human history. Crusades? Christians fighting for access to Jerusalem. Pogroms? Religious bigotry. Holy wars? Jihad? All had an impact on world history and if we cannot discuss the religious beliefs that caused these events, or at the least aided them, then it can't be said we are truly learning world history.

Can anyone agree that religion can be discussed without proselytizing?

 

[justabubba]

No, Bubba. I educate when it makes sense to. Re-read the thread. I'm not the talking monkey that performs the same trick each time a poster asks the same question on the same thread. You're an adult, you can handle it. I don't need to baby you.

ok. i accept that you have quit, being without the ability and/or inclination to articulate your reasoning

A syllabus may or may not tell you anything you want. It is unlikely that they will say "here's the exact movie I am playing". It's more likely to be rules and a tentative schedule.

then we cannot be assured that religious indoctrination is not going on as spiker suspects may be the circumstance

 

[Fiddytree]

yes i don mean 8th grades not sure how that changes anything i said.

and well i would never go that far and make a blanket statement like that but i also would never say its NOT a flag. It definitely is a flag that should be looked at and determined if its wrong based on context of the discussion and what the class is talking about.

My social studies classes nor my daughters (well she has two more to go) ever talked about mosses at any in depth level and they certainly didnt have a direct assignment on him, so thats way its a flag because world history can easily be taught at the MS to HS level with being indepth about moses or even mentioning him at all. I think thats peoples concern and its a legit one.

We do it all the time though. This is why I am shocked at the responses here. We have teachers doing wordle exercises where they have to do matching games of the gods of various religions, watch documentary films on founders of religions and their big name characters..they write up stuff on it...we get into the politics of religion, we get into religious strife...etc etc. It's an important part of history in addition to it being incredibly common to bring up in the classroom.

It's so common that it never made a blip on anybody's radar when the National History Standards were coming out in the 90s. If anyone knows anything about that national controversy (even Rush was huffing and puffing over it for years), you'd know what the major point of discussion was. It was not including religious figures in the classroom at grade 5-12. It was all about if it is too darn liberal and multicultural. That passed by so easily that it never made any headline, never caused controversy with teachers, sociologists, and historians creating the thing. It's still there, in exquisite detail.

 

[presluc]

I'm not a follower of any religion, and I don't want religious instruction or prayer in my kids' education. So, that said, I can intellectually accept that the discussion of the role of religion in world history is legitimate. Religion has been a strong motivator throughout human history. Crusades? Christians fighting for access to Jerusalem. Pogroms? Religious bigotry. Holy wars? Jihad? All had an impact on world history and if we cannot discuss the religious beliefs that caused these events, or at the least aided them, then it can't be said we are truly learning world history.

Can anyone agree that religion can be discussed without proselytizing?

Gina, I can agree with that, and it has been my point all along.

You or anyone elses beliefs or non beliefs I can respect.

However to actually say that Religion has not played a part in history of where we as a nation or world for that matter of where we are now that I can not accept.
For indeed that would be like coming to the conclusion of the Big Bang theory without the history of evolution.eace

 

[AGENT J]

We do it all the time though. This is why I am shocked at the responses here. We have teachers doing wordle exercises where they have to do matching games of the gods of various religions, watch documentary films on founders of religions and their big name characters..they write up stuff on it...we get into the politics of religion, we get into religious strife...etc etc. It's an important part of history in addition to it being incredibly common to bring up in the classroom.

It's so common that it never made a blip on anybody's radar when the National History Standards were coming out in the 90s. If anyone knows anything about that national controversy, you'd know what the major point of discussion was. It was not including religious figures in the classroom at grade 5-12.

see im not familiar with any of that, the bolded above never happened in any of my schools or my kids

discussing religion in a general way, yes and the content was usually these people did like, killed etc these people because they believed in this religion and the others believed in this religion.

SO i totally disagree that its incredible "common"

but i do agree with you that it does get "mentioned"

While i dont agree with any EXTREME views that might be in this thread, to be concerned is clearly warranted simply because it seems illogical on the surface without further looking into it.

 

[Fiddytree]

see im not familiar with any of that, the bolded above never happened in any of my schools or my kids

discussing religion in a general way, yes and the content was usually these people did like, killed etc these people because they believed in this religion and the others believed in this religion.

SO i totally disagree that its incredible "common"

but i do agree with you that it does get "mentioned"

While i dont agree with any EXTREME views that might be in this thread, to be concerned is clearly warranted simply because it seems illogical on the surface without further looking into it.

It's all over the field. It is common. Just because you hadn't heard of it before doesn't mean it isn't common.

 

[justabubba]

It's all over the field. It is common. Just because you hadn't heard of it before doesn't mean it isn't common.

and you are expected to take fiddy's word for it because he is too tired to explain why his position should prevail

 

[Fiddytree]

and you are expected to take fiddy's word for it because he is too tired to explain why his position should prevail

Look at how many posts there are in this thread. I have been belaboring it before you even showed up in this thread today. Stop now before you look like a fool.

 

[Gina]

Gina, I can agree with that, and it has been my point all along.

You or anyone elses beliefs or non beliefs I can respect.

However to actually say that Religion has not played a part in history of where we as a nation or world for that matter of where we are now that I can not accept.
For indeed that would be like coming to the conclusion of the Big Bang theory without the history of evolution.eace

Thanks presluc. You and I had come to that agreement a few days ago. I too respect people believer or not. It's up to them, not me.

There are still a few unanswered questions from the OP and her follow up posts, that she may return to address, or not. So we do not fully know what happened in that classroom, the details of the assignment or the grade it received.

It still remains, that religion has a context in the events of world history and it can be part of the intellectual discussion as to why a particular event occurred.

 

[AGENT J]

It's all over the field. It is common. Just because you hadn't heard of it before doesn't mean it isn't common.

I agree it doesnt mean that but your wording was "incredibly common" and yet my schools, my kids schools and peoples schools posting in this thread haven't experienced what you call incredibly common.

Sorry i stand by my statement that on the surface it is a definite cause for concern and at that level specific characters are needed at all.

 

[justabubba]

Look at how many posts there are in this thread. I have been belaboring it before you even showed up in this thread. Stop now before you look like a fool.

too late, fiddy






unlike some, i refuse to accept your view simply because it is your view
you have yet to provide an rational explanation why the presentation to spiker's kid's class should not be found religious indoctrination

 

[AGENT J]

I'm not a follower of any religion, and I don't want religious instruction or prayer in my kids' education. So, that said, I can intellectually accept that the discussion of the role of religion in world history is legitimate. Religion has been a strong motivator throughout human history. Crusades? Christians fighting for access to Jerusalem. Pogroms? Religious bigotry. Holy wars? Jihad? All had an impact on world history and if we cannot discuss the religious beliefs that caused these events, or at the least aided them, then it can't be said we are truly learning world history.

Can anyone agree that religion can be discussed without proselytizing?

yes i agree, that why i wish i knew the context of the lessons and it just strikes me as odd that there is such an in-dept focus on a character.

all those things you mentioned could be taught with out even mentioning is name or doing a report specifically on him.

But i do agree with you, i just also understand the "concern" factor because its legit

 

[Fiddytree]

too late, fiddy






unlike some, i refuse to accept your view simply because it is your view
you have yet to provide an rational explanation why the presentation to spiker's kid's class should not be found religious indoctrination

I've provided more than almost any of the posters in this thread have combined. Just because you're too lazy to look for it doesn't mean you get to act like Mr. Hot Shot.

 

[justabubba]

I've provided more than almost any of the posters in this thread have combined. Just because you're too lazy to look for it doesn't mean you get to act like Mr. Hot Shot.

what i have found is you are not able to present a cogent rationale why the teacher in spiker's kid's class was not engaging in religious indoctrination

 

[Fiddytree]

what i have found is you are not able to present a cogent rationale why the teacher in spiker's kid's class was not engaging in religious indoctrination

You're a walking contrarian, aren't you? Bye.

 

[Gina]

yes i agree, that why i wish i knew the context of the lessons and it just strikes me as odd that there is such an in-dept focus on a character.

all those things you mentioned could be taught with out even mentioning is name or doing a report specifically on him.

But i do agree with you, i just also understand the "concern" factor because its legit

We can't know the context without further information from Aunt Spiker. I wish she'd return to clear it up. Without that understanding, we are left to question the character of the teacher. Did she proselytize? Was it graded in such a manner as to fail the boy if he didn't receive the film as undisputed fact? That Moses did part the Red Sea?

In the OP, Aunt Spiker asked us, "our thoughts" and what would we do. We don't know the result of what she did.

 

[AGENT J]

We can't know the context without further information from Aunt Spiker. I wish she'd return to clear it up. Without that understanding, we are left to question the character of the teacher. Did she proselytize? Was it graded in such a manner as to fail the boy if he didn't receive the film as undisputed fact? That Moses did part the Red Sea?

In the OP, Aunt Spiker asked us, "our thoughts" and what would we do. We don't know the result of what she did.

agreed 100%

 

[presluc]

Thanks presluc. You and I had come to that agreement a few days ago. I too respect people believer or not. It's up to them, not me.

There are still a few unanswered questions from the OP and her follow up posts, that she may return to address, or not. So we do not fully know what happened in that classroom, the details of the assignment or the grade it received.

It still remains, that religion has a context in the events of world history and it can be part of the intellectual discussion as to why a particular event occurred.

There is one small fact that I think was overlooked on this thread.
That is the contribution that atheism and science as played in history.

Perhaps others have overlooked this but not I.
For before the discussions and research of evolution I must confess I did not think it was true.
However, one must accept fact.

Now if the discussion of how living tissue came to be, or the workings of the human brain?

I have listened to these discussion with an open mind but alas I find the findings lacking.

So we as individuals must sometimes walk different paths with different beliefs.

It is my belief that respect is key here for both, well except Organized Religion "no help for them it's a lost cause"..

I guess my point is I'm not going out looking for people so I can change their beliefs to suit mine.eace

 

[Fiddytree]

There is one small fact that I think was overlooked on this thread.
That is the contribution that atheism and science as played in history.

Perhaps others have overlooked this but not I.
For before the discussions and research of evolution I must confess I did not think it was true.
However, one must accept fact.

Now if the discussion of how living tissue came to be, or the workings of the human brain?

I have listened to these discussion with an open mind but alas I find the findings lacking.

So we as individuals must sometimes walk different paths with different beliefs.

It is my belief that respect is key here for both, well except Organized Religion "no help for them it's a lost cause"..

I guess my point is I'm not going out looking for people so I can change their beliefs to suit mine.eace

If it wasn't too potentially difficult (especially with the religious nutters), I would love to go into something like James Turner's "Without God, Without Creed" intellectual history. Certainly isn't permissible yet though, and it is too abstract of a text, and his thesis allows only a discussion of about 1880-> onward. It's a problem that I admit exists, but again, teachers are caught between the realms of the public ripping it to shreds.

 

[Gina]

There is one small fact that I think was overlooked on this thread.
That is the contribution that atheism and science as played in history.

Perhaps others have overlooked this but not I.
For before the discussions and research of evolution I must confess I did not think it was true.
However, one must accept fact.

Now if the discussion of how living tissue came to be, or the workings of the human brain?

I have listened to these discussion with an open mind but alas I find the findings lacking.

So we as individuals must sometimes walk different paths with different beliefs.

It is my belief that respect is key here for both, well except Organized Religion "no help for them it's a lost cause"..

I guess my point is I'm not going out looking for people so I can change their beliefs to suit mine.eace

Respect is key and there are players on both sides who lack that. No wonder the wider world is in such a mess over religion, when there is precious little respect here, in this microcosm of human existence.

Neither am I trying to find people for the purpose of changing their beliefs. I live and let live, no matter my reaction to some things that are said to me about religion, from both sides.

 

[spanky]

Respect is key and there are players on both sides who lack that. No wonder the wider world is in such a mess over religion, when there is precious little respect here, in this microcosm of human existence.

Neither am I trying to find people for the purpose of changing their beliefs. I live and let live, no matter my reaction to some things that are said to me about religion, from both sides.

Well then I ask the religious to respect others and keep their proselytizing out of public schools.

You know, like the Founders.

 

[spanky]

I'm thinking Auntie contacted an attorney who told her not to make any more public statements on the issue.

 

[Fiddytree]

Well then I ask the religious to respect others and keep their proselytizing out of public schools.

You know, like the Founders.

You do know that there were many Founders that were not against state religion, right? We had State church's through the early 19th century.