- Joined
- Oct 20, 2009
- Messages
- 28,431
- Reaction score
- 16,990
- Location
- Sasnakra
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Moderate
Pretend that there was no such thing as religion. Do you actually think that none of those things would have happened?
The fact that wars and atrocities were committed in the name of religion doesn't mean that they would never have happened in the absence of religion.
Wait - are you saying that you believe that a supernatural being actually killed all those people via things like floods?
If so, then it would seem pretty foolish to be saying religion is useless.
If not, then it obviously wasn't the fault of a religion that those people died.
i once tried to beat someone to death with an idea, all it did was give me a headache.
Have bad things been done in the name of religion? Of course, but to blame religion misses the point. Religion has been such a dominant part of society in human history, so it's bound to be the most convenient excuse. Atheists do pretty bad things as well. Trying determine which world, a believing one or a non-believing one, would lead to more murder, torture, conquest, suffering, and man's inhumanity's to his fellow man is pointless. Both people are capable of being complete dicks. Get off your damn high horses.
Have bad things been done in the name of religion? Of course, but to blame religion misses the point. Religion has been such a dominant part of society in human history, so it's bound to be the most convenient excuse. Atheists do pretty bad things as well. Trying determine which world, a believing one or a non-believing one, would lead to more murder, torture, conquest, suffering, and man's inhumanity's to his fellow man is pointless. Both people are capable of being complete dicks. Get off your damn high horses.
No - I don't believe the Children's War would have happened without Religion.
Nor would the Spanish Inquisition and the Great Crusades. What about the face off between Middle Eastern Countries? Would much of that be going on right now? What about 9/11 - would that have happened? What about Cults - all in the name of a twisted 'god' belief and worhsip? Would we be defending Israel so much if we weren't a "Christian nation" (according to many people's beliefs - not mine).
Sure - wars happen - right now people are beign tortured and killed and religion and God doesn't factor it. But that's doesn't mean that *countless* people have met their end because someone was on a religious-trip and trying to spread the good word through their proclaimed Jihad.
Religious people believe it happened (I don't)
And they worship the God/Gods who did such attrocities and accept it - and even defend said beliefs and actions.
You know why God killed all the children in the flood? (I asked this in another forum years back) - the Defendors of God said "Because they were *really really bad people*"
Mmmmhmm.
Religion breeds stupidity, that's for damn sure. . . and Foster's an acceptance of "kill all" as long as "God does it it's ok!" - which is why it's so dangerous.
Of course crap would happened without religion - of course it would. But you cannot deny that people all too often *use* religion as support, a reason, an excuse and as their 'purpose' far too often - even if it's just a bunch of bull**** to them, personally.
Well since that will never happen anytime soon... I guess we'll never know.
Funny - I see it the opposite. . . I see that the world is wretched because it's pocked full of 'my God vs your God' issues. . . and would like the god factor to be removed.
Why do you think that a beliefless place would bring more harm into the equation?
Why do you equate peace and morality *with* religious beliefs? (here's where we (religious and non-religious people) differ - Some non-believers see that people can live peacefully and be moral without God, many religious people dont').
Pretend that there was no such thing as religion. Do you actually think that none of those things would have happened?
The fact that wars and atrocities were committed in the name of religion doesn't mean that they would never have happened in the absence of religion.
But they were committed int hte name of religion, and that is the point of the thread. If there was no religion then the issue would be moot, right?
My point is that even in the absence of religion, they would have been committed in the name of "honor" or "tribe" or "nation" or "culture" or something else.
My point is that even in the absence of religion, they would have been committed in the name of "honor" or "tribe" or "nation" or "culture" or something else.
Some things - purely and only - happened because of one's (or many's) belief in their God - and that God sent them to do it (or whatever). Many - many many - attrocious acts have been committed ONLY because of religion - and nothing else. With "God's message" quite a few things wouldn't have occured - it's just that simple.
To the OP...
Religion doesn't harm people, humans harm people.
If people actually followed the basic tenets of their faith, we probably wouldn't have so much violence, greed, and abuse in the world.
But people are hypocrites.
unless their religion called for certain punishments to certain crimes, like killing children who hit their parents, in whoch case, some of the tenets are best left ignored.
The only good I see from religion is charitable work and that is about it, I mean they have certainly made a difference with their work though. However we don't draw our morals from religion, I'm pretty sure most of the stuff we know is wrong is just from social and natural standards. Speaking in a Darwin sense it isn't beneficiary to our species to kill people so naturally we shun murder.
Does your church house homeless people or spend 24 hours a day counseling suicidal people?
As far as pastoral work goes, it's a good gig for someone who can find a gullible herd to support him/her. Most of the pastors in my area, with a decent-sized congregation, make far more money than I do.
For the record: I'd have similar problems with a teen center whose building was only used 10% of the time.
Such as?
I just don't know how you could possibly know this. Again, if some psycho murders his entire family because he believed that Jesus wanted him to, the same thing would be likely to happen even in some alternate universe without religion.
The Children's Crusade would not have happened. The Spanish Inquisition et al would not have happened (torturing and condemning to death people for not converting to Catholicism). . . .9/11 happened purely because of people's religious issues. The Catholic/Protestant conflicts wouldn't have happened. israel and Iran might not hate eachother so deeply. And people wouldn't be rioting and having hissy fits - and killing others in the process - just because an image of Mohammad was depicted in a magazine :shrug:
If you want to believe that these things would have happened without their religions then that's you're opinion - I see that religion was a the hardcore reason and pure center of the issue.
And what things would happen if people didn't have a God to compel them to be moral?
I do not know about that....Do we have a direct tie-in with religion and violence?I'll agree with that.
I will also say that most of these people would have their hearts in the right place even without religion. If there were no religion in the world, nice people would still be nice people.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?