Religion and World Peace

[stevecanuck]

1 John 4:7-8
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Qur'an 3:32 - God does not love infidels.
Qur'an 2:98 - God is the enemy of infidels.

In Islam, God is only love to Muslims. To the rest of us, he is an enemy (God's words - not mine). I would call that a night and day difference between the two religions, mish kidda?

 

[stevecanuck]

There is no hellfire...

Correct. Also no heaven.

 

[Quaestio]

So I think atheists ought to think more carefully. About this, and about everything else. You tend to be very careless in your thinking.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Logician Man]

Premise of the OP putting the onus on religions being the hang up for world piece:



Two which I respond:



...because we'll never have it because that's how people are, religious or not.



Now he's putting the onus back on religion, as if it's unique. I smash that narrative with facts:



He responds in a way that tries to soft-peddle what he was initially implying, virtually running away from his own OP.



And there you go.

revisit post #11

 

[Omega Man]

There were many things Jesus talked about that the apostles and other believers did not fully understand at the time, especially about the kingdom...

But fortunately the words attributed to him in Matthew made it all clear, in no uncertain terms. Unless of course you are suggesting that the author of Matthew got it wrong, and was therefore not inspired by God?


OM
.

 

[Omega Man]

proper interpretation of the Bible.

Translation: Only those who believe may interpret as they have been instructed to interpret


OM

 

[Logicman]

Precisely true.

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." -Matthew 16:28

....These were predictions made at certain time in history, and those assurances directed towards a certain community of believers who were being oppressed, and who possessed a conviction that their chosen "spiritual savior" would deliver them, and enact revenge upon their oppressors. It simply didn't happen. It is at a later point that the believers began reading into the scriptures, rather than simply reading them.

Once again, you haven't done your homework. It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures.

Response:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." -Matthew 16:28

Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

First, what is the Kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 answers that: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

It is also Jesus being seen in a Kingdom appearance (more on that later).

When did it come with power? In Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
So, the power would come by virtue of the Holy Spirit. When did that happen?

It (the power) happened in Acts chapter two, verses 1-4: "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
After that, Act 5:12 notes the miracles and power of the disciples: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people."

But when did some of the disciples see Jesus coming in his kingdom?

"It is that Jesus’ Transfiguration occurs next in the synoptists’ accounts (Mt 17.1-8; Mk 9.2-8; Lk 9.28-36a). Jesus took Peter, James, and John “up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (Mt 17.1-3). From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die." Did Jesus? Disciples See ?the Son of Man Coming in his Kingdom?? | Kermit Zarley

 

[jmotivator]

With all of the differing religious theologies, some of which direct their followers to go forth and convert all to believe as they do, some even using physical force, is there any scenario in which it is conceivable world wide peace can ever be achieved ?

Religion has little to do with it. We war with or without religion.

 

[Logician Man]

Once again, you haven't done your homework. It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures.

Response:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." -Matthew 16:28

Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

First, what is the Kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 answers that: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

It is also Jesus being seen in a Kingdom appearance (more on that later).

When did it come with power? In Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
So, the power would come by virtue of the Holy Spirit. When did that happen?

It (the power) happened in Acts chapter two, verses 1-4: "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
After that, Act 5:12 notes the miracles and power of the disciples: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people."

But when did some of the disciples see Jesus coming in his kingdom?

"It is that Jesus’ Transfiguration occurs next in the synoptists’ accounts (Mt 17.1-8; Mk 9.2-8; Lk 9.28-36a). Jesus took Peter, James, and John “up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (Mt 17.1-3). From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die." Did Jesus? Disciples See ?the Son of Man Coming in his Kingdom?? | Kermit Zarley

/// It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures. //// Fitting choice of terms when one considers all of the butchering in the scriptures...especially in the O.T.

 

[Logicman]

/// It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures. //// Fitting choice of terms when one considers all of the butchering in the scriptures...especially in the O.T.

You're another one who is clueless about the scriptures. Even after laying it all out for you in Post # 132 you still haven't learned a thing. Astonishing, willful blindness.

 

[Daisy]

But fortunately the words attributed to him in Matthew made it all clear, in no uncertain terms. Unless of course you are suggesting that the author of Matthew got it wrong, and was therefore not inspired by God?


OM
.

Yes, very clear...the execution of God’s judgment on Jerusalem in 70 CE was not the greatest tribulation up to that time, nor has it been the last...Jesus’ words at Matthew 24:21, 22 in their full-scale fulfillment is yet to come...

“For then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.”

Jesus’ prophecy at Matthew 24:23–25:46 indicates the global scale of the conclusion of this world as we know it...the climax during that period of distress will cause Jesus as God’s enthroned king to execute judgment on Satan’s world, “all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation”...that will include all of mankind that rejects Jesus’ kingship...it is not a judgment involving just one nation and its city, but a worldwide day of reckoning....

"Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24:30

 

[Logician Man]

You're another one who is clueless about the scriptures. Even after laying it all out to you in Post # 132 you still haven't learned a thing. Astonishing blindness.

So you're denying there is a lot of 'butchering' in the O.T. scriptures. You sure you want to go with that ? What about the 30 million killed by the O.T. God per biblical scripture? babies, unborns, children, pregnant women ?

 

[Idiometer]

Premise of the OP putting the onus on religions being the hang up for world piece:



Two which I respond:



...because we'll never have it because that's how people are, religious or not.



Now he's putting the onus back on religion, as if it's unique. I smash that narrative with facts:



He responds in a way that tries to soft-peddle what he was initially implying, virtually running away from his own OP.



And there you go.

While it is true that war is usually fought over wealth and territory, it is also true that leaders, rulers, generals, emperors, and other warlords used the religious beliefs of their own people to both vilify the enemy and motivate their own soldiers. That is still true today.

 

[Logicman]

So you're denying there is a lot of 'butchering' in the O.T. scriptures. You sure you want to go with that ? What about the 30 million killed by the O.T. God per biblical scripture? babies, unborns, children, pregnant women ?

I've got a flash for you. According to the Bible, evil and ignorant people who continue to mock God and Jesus' salvation will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 21:8).

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[Omega Man]

Once again, you haven't done your homework. It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures.

Response:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." -Matthew 16:28

Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

First, what is the Kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 answers that: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

It is also Jesus being seen in a Kingdom appearance (more on that later).

When did it come with power? In Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
So, the power would come by virtue of the Holy Spirit. When did that happen?

It (the power) happened in Acts chapter two, verses 1-4: "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
After that, Act 5:12 notes the miracles and power of the disciples: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people."

But when did some of the disciples see Jesus coming in his kingdom?

"It is that Jesus’ Transfiguration occurs next in the synoptists’ accounts (Mt 17.1-8; Mk 9.2-8; Lk 9.28-36a). Jesus took Peter, James, and John “up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (Mt 17.1-3). From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die." Did Jesus? Disciples See ?the Son of Man Coming in his Kingdom?? | Kermit Zarley

Didn't butcher whatsoever; read it exactly for what it says. Amazing however how you decided to completely bypass all those other books and verses.


OM

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Once again, you haven't done your homework. It's amazing how you butcher the scriptures.

Response:

"I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." -Matthew 16:28

Mark 9:1 notes, "Until they have seen the kingdom of God come with power;"

First, what is the Kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 answers that: "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

It is also Jesus being seen in a Kingdom appearance (more on that later).

When did it come with power? In Acts 1:8: “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
So, the power would come by virtue of the Holy Spirit. When did that happen?

It (the power) happened in Acts chapter two, verses 1-4: "When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
After that, Act 5:12 notes the miracles and power of the disciples: "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people."

But when did some of the disciples see Jesus coming in his kingdom?

"It is that Jesus’ Transfiguration occurs next in the synoptists’ accounts (Mt 17.1-8; Mk 9.2-8; Lk 9.28-36a). Jesus took Peter, James, and John “up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white. Suddenly there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him” (Mt 17.1-3). From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand that Jesus referred to his upcoming Transfiguration when he said some disciples would see him coming in his kingdom before they die." Did Jesus? Disciples See ?the Son of Man Coming in his Kingdom?? | Kermit Zarley

From a literary perspective, it seems pretty obvious that all three synoptists intended for their readers to understand...

In other words, ignore what it says and believe what I tell you it's intended to mean. Apologetics involves poetic licence.

 

[Daisy]

In other words, ignore what it says and believe what I tell you it's intended to mean. Apologetics involves poetic licence.

Doxy, in spite of what some people believe, God's kingdom is a real, tangible government ruled by Jesus Christ...it is not something within us, some intangible state of mind...it is what we pray for, for God's kingdom to come and rule over the earth in Matthew 6:10...

Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth."

 

[Logician Man]

I've got a flash for you. According to the Bible, evil and ignorant people who continue to mock God and Jesus' salvation will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 21:8).

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Mocking ?. I'm posting what is in the biblical scriptures. You can easily google the numbers killed, verse by verse in 2 minutes. As for the expected personal stuff, as usual, summarily dismissed as I understand you get your jollies telling others they are doomed. :screwy

 

[Logicman]

Didn't butcher whatsoever; read it exactly for what it says. Amazing however how you decided to completely bypass all those other books and verses.


OM

You didn't read enough. My previous response shows you what and why you didn't read enough of.

 

[Logicman]

In other words, ignore what it says and believe what I tell you it's intended to mean. Apologetics involves poetic licence.

You're ignoring what I presented in Post #132, so you're your own worst enemy when it comes to understanding scripture.

 

[Fishking]

While it is true that war is usually fought over wealth and territory, it is also true that leaders, rulers, generals, emperors, and other warlords used the religious beliefs of their own people to both vilify the enemy and motivate their own soldiers. That is still true today.

All those people also breathed air, so obviously breathing air makes it so rules, generals, et al, can vilify other people. That is still true to this day. <---barely a more specious statement.

 

[Fishking]

revisit post #11

You mean this post?

I don't know of any atheist who has ever claimed there would be no wars if there was no religion. Where did you come up with this fallacious assumption ? Do you have a verifiable citation to support your claim ? Is so, please present it. If not, your positive claim can,and will, be summarily dismissed.

Yeah...that was a nice attempt at changing your narrative but let's revisit your OP:

With all of the differing religious theologies, some of which direct their followers to go forth and convert all to believe as they do, some even using physical force, is there any scenario in which it is conceivable world wide peace can ever be achieved ?

Your questions is asking whether it's conceivable for there to be world-wide peace. Now what is the premise of your leadup to your question? You said, "With all of the differing religious theologies, some of which direct their followers to go forth and convert all to believe as they do". That means the thing which is making it not possible is religion, by your own words.

Trying to reinvent your OP after it being demonstrated to be ridiculous doesn't work very well when we can just go back and quote it.

 

[Logician Man]

You mean this post?



Yeah...that was a nice attempt at changing your narrative but let's revisit your OP:




Your questions is asking whether it's conceivable for there to be world-wide peace. Now what is the premise of your leadup to your question? You said, "With all of the differing religious theologies, some of which direct their followers to go forth and convert all to believe as they do". That means the thing which is making it not possible is religion, by your own words.

Trying to reinvent your OP after it being demonstrated to be ridiculous doesn't work very well when we can just go back and quote it.

Actually it is you who is trying to reinvent the OP by making a false assumption about the OP. That's on you and no concern to me FYI.

 

[Fishking]

Actually it is you who is trying to reinvent the OP by making a false assumption about the OP. That's on you and no concern to me FYI.

It's not an assumption. You wrote it out, quite clearly. Once you were given facts to show your premise to be ridiculous, you tried to reinvent it. Maybe you should change your screen name.

 

[Logician Man]

It's not an assumption. You wrote it out, quite clearly. Once you were given facts to show your premise to be ridiculous, you tried to reinvent it. Maybe you should change your screen name.

The OP states some facts, and then poses a question...end of story....