rape

[cpwill]

I'm a Christian conservative or a "Christofascist" using your terms. Show me where I've ever expressed anything about how rape is the victims fault, in fact I've said the exact opposite but I guess what I say doesn't matter as much as what my lean is.

because if there is one description that fits CC, it's "christofascist."

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

because if there is one description that fits CC, it's "christofascist."

Stop using my name in vain. :2razz:

 

[molten_dragon]

Yeah, women are just that impressionable, they follow any "attitude" out there, and if you don't tell them that they are partly to blame if/when they get raped, then they won't "learn" about safe behavior. Seriously, do you spend time around women at all?

Yes, I do. In fact, my assertion that that kind of attitude can lead to women not learning from their mistakes the first time around is based on personal experience.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, I do. In fact, my assertion that that kind of attitude can lead to women not learning from their mistakes the first time around is based on personal experience.

What mistakes?

 

[Tucker Case]

That's exactly blaming the victim. That he chose to believe she won't repeat the crime doesn't make him in any way responsible for the crime. You are basically saying that the victim should avoid all actions that trigger the aggressive behavior. That situation happens in abusive households all the time: according to the aggressor, the victim is always the faulty party for acting in some way to trigger the aggression. It's called blaming the victim.

Blaming the victim is saying they did something to warrant being victimized not saying they made poor decisions that put themselves in a position where victimization was more likely.

I was quite clear in noting that full responsibility for the aggression lies with the victimizer, not the victim. People trying to paint that as blaming the victim ignore a major respopnsibility the victim has to themselves: the victim, and the victim only, is responsible for their own choices with regard to personal safety. People shouldn't sit back and say "Well, since I have a right to do something, I shouldn't have to not do it simply because doing it is very likely to put me in a very dangerous situation".

Adults are responsible for the choices they make regarding their own safety. If the person makes a choice where they have a reasonable expectation of safety, then they have exercised good judgement. But if they make choices where they can reasonable expect to be unsafe, they exercised very poor judgement.

The analogy I provided showed a man exercising very poor judgement in three ways. 1. Knowingly marrying a person who murdered their first spouse. 2. Engaging in certain specific behaviors that they know will increase their chance for becoming a victim. 3. thinking that what happened to others couldn't happen to him.

People need to be aware of things that can increase the likelihood of victimization so that they can make the informed choices for self-preservation.

The victims do not have any responsibility with regard to the crime that was committed. Full responsibility for the crime lies with the perpetrator of the crime.

Victims do have full responsibility over the choices they make as they pertain to their safety. If they exercise poor judgement (and by that I mean doing things where one can reasonably expect to become the victim of a crime), then they need to know this so that they can become empowered to exercise better judgement in the future.

Empowerment involves knowing what one can do to minimize victimization. There are factors which increase the likelihood of victimization. People need to be aware of those factors in order to avoid them.

And if anyone think that the crime should receive less punishment because of the behaviour of the victim, as has been done and argued with rape cases, that is also excusing the rapists.

Of course. But what the hell does that have to do with anything I have actually said?

 

[lpast]

what if she was going to meet her man who was well armed

most cases of forcible rape aren't instigated based on "attractiveness"

If you did a photo lineup of rape victims I doubt you'd confuse it for the dallas cheerleaders' tryouts

Most would be stunned at the senior women some in their 80s that are raped in the big cities and its not just a couple...I guess the rapist was just over come with lust seeing the 80 yr old topless and in her thong, rapes about POWER and male mental illness ...there may be some rapes out of pure lust but there are the miniority by far

 

[TurtleDude]

Most would be stunned at the senior women some in their 80s that are raped in the big cities and its not just a couple...I guess the rapist was just over come with lust seeing the 80 yr old topless and in her thong, rapes about POWER and male mental illness ...there may be some rapes out of pure lust but there are the miniority by far

YOu are absolutely right. Its about power and many victims-as you noted (and small children) are not what any NORMAL person would label as "hot"

 

[ChrisL]

Most would be stunned at the senior women some in their 80s that are raped in the big cities and its not just a couple...I guess the rapist was just over come with lust seeing the 80 yr old topless and in her thong, rapes about POWER and male mental illness ...there may be some rapes out of pure lust but there are the miniority by far

I think rape is far more about humiliation, control and a hatred for women than it is about the sex. I think rapists hate women.

 

[lpast]

I think rape is far more about humiliation, control and a hatred for women than it is about the sex. I think rapists hate women.

That too Im sure...look im no trained psychologist...based on my experience rape isnt about the gal that walks down the street in shortshorts and has the perfect body....sure that gets male sensual and mental awareness working...but that doesnt translate into dragging her into an alley.
Let me ask all you guy a question...could you get an erection and maintain it while brutalizing and overpowering a woman who is trying to fight you off crying and screaming...could YOU ??...Ill be damned if i could even as a young man only a sick sucker could find that sexually exciting.

 

[ChrisL]

That too Im sure...look im no trained psychologist...based on my experience rape isnt about the gal that walks down the street in shortshorts and has the perfect body....sure that gets male sensual and mental awareness working...but that doesnt translate into dragging her into an alley.
Let me ask all you guy a question...could you get an erection and maintain it while brutalizing and overpowering a woman who is trying to fight you off crying and screaming...could YOU ??...Ill be damned if i could even as a young man only a sick sucker could find that sexually exciting.

LOL, well I'm not a guy, but apparently some guys must like it.

 

[Slartibartfast]

LOL, well I'm not a guy, but apparently some guys must like it.

What is interesting, and kind of creepy, is that a lot of women have fantasies about being overpowered and "taken"

So its something that both sides may share.

 

[lpast]

Yes, I do. In fact, my assertion that that kind of attitude can lead to women not learning from their mistakes the first time around is based on personal experience.

MD..I am not attacking you here ok there are exceptions to everything...but what most are trying to say here is that the behavior of women is not the cause or the catalyst for men that rape....a man climbing in a window that presents an opportunity and raping a woman in her own bed isnt the womans fault and that happens far to often...Your assuming that men that rape recieve some stimulus from the women they are about to rape...and somehow if a woman doesnt provide it...she wont get raped or lessens the chance....I dont agree with that...too many old ladies and totally unattractive women get raped for that to be true....like I said there may be an exception or two to that.....just my view

 

[ChrisL]

What is interesting, and kind of creepy, is that a lot of women have fantasies about being overpowered and "taken"

So its something that both sides may share.

Sure they do, about a good-looking guy that they like; not some sweaty gross disgusting stranger. Big difference between fantasy and reality.

 

[lpast]

LOL, well I'm not a guy, but apparently some guys must like it.

I know your not chris I saw the pink whatchacallit...I posed the question to all you guys ? not intentionally insinuating you were a guy

 

[ChrisL]

MD..I am not attacking you here ok there are exceptions to everything...but what most are trying to say here is that the behavior of women is not the cause or the catalyst for men that rape....a man climbing in a window that presents an opportunity and raping a woman in her own bed isnt the womans fault and that happens far to often...Your assuming that men that rape recieve some stimulus from the women they are about to rape...and somehow if a woman doesnt provide it...she wont get raped or lessens the chance....I dont agree with that...too many old ladies and totally unattractive women get raped for that to be true....like I said there may be an exception or two to that.....just my view

I think you are describing the "serial" rapist. In cases of date rape, it is a little different.

 

[lpast]

I think you are describing the "serial" rapist. In cases of date rape, it is a little different.

Date rape is the guy having a sense of entitlement and thinking he has a right to take some...those guys need to get a beating that causes them to be in traction for a few weeks and intensive care...thats my opinion as a dad with 6 daughters

 

[Graffias]

Sure they do, about a good-looking guy that they like; not some sweaty gross disgusting stranger. Big difference between fantasy and reality.

And what if they're not sweaty, gross, and disgusting?

 

[ChrisL]

And what if they're not sweaty, gross, and disgusting?

LOL! No comment.

 

[Graffias]

You can't be serious. That is just effing insane. You need to get control over your "woman hating."

I don't see how posting statistics about false rape allegations is "woman hating".

 

[ChrisL]

I don't see how posting statistics about false rape allegations is "woman hating".

Well, from the posts of your's that I've read, you seem to not like women very much.

 

[molten_dragon]

MD..I am not attacking you here ok there are exceptions to everything...but what most are trying to say here is that the behavior of women is not the cause or the catalyst for men that rape....a man climbing in a window that presents an opportunity and raping a woman in her own bed isnt the womans fault and that happens far to often...Your assuming that men that rape recieve some stimulus from the women they are about to rape...and somehow if a woman doesnt provide it...she wont get raped or lessens the chance....I dont agree with that...too many old ladies and totally unattractive women get raped for that to be true....like I said there may be an exception or two to that.....just my view

I'm not trying to give the impression that I think every woman that gets raped did something to cause it or make it easier. I realize that in many cases the woman involved did nothing that increased her risk.

What I'm trying to get across is that in the cases where the woman DID engage in risky behavior, it should be okay to acknowledge that. Is it painful? Yes. Is it brutally honest? Yes. But I don't think it's a good idea to try to hide people from the fact that choices have consequences. And I feel like, despite being very well-intentioned, that's what we're doing when we say things like "The victim is never at fault" and "She didn't do anything to cause it". We're trying to protect her by lessening the impact that her choices had in what happened.

Again, I'm not saying anyone else has bad intentions, or that rape is okay, or rapists shouldn't be punished.

 

[molten_dragon]

What mistakes?

Mistakes like choosing to go to a party alone and get drunk around people she doesn't know.

 

[lpast]

I'm not trying to give the impression that I think every woman that gets raped did something to cause it or make it easier. I realize that in many cases the woman involved did nothing that increased her risk.

What I'm trying to get across is that in the cases where the woman DID engage in risky behavior, it should be okay to acknowledge that. Is it painful? Yes. Is it brutally honest? Yes. But I don't think it's a good idea to try to hide people from the fact that choices have consequences. And I feel like, despite being very well-intentioned, that's what we're doing when we say things like "The victim is never at fault" and "She didn't do anything to cause it". We're trying to protect her by lessening the impact that her choices had in what happened.

Again, I'm not saying anyone else has bad intentions, or that rape is okay, or rapists shouldn't be punished.

Ok if your saying there are cases where a gal intentionally teases a guy and he over reacts Ok...but its never a NORMAL situation even for a guy thats been teased to the point of sexual frustration to take the step to forcible rape...thats a whole other category of sickness...

 

[mac]

Mistakes like choosing to go to a party alone and get drunk around people she doesn't know.

What about if it were a guy that went to a party alone, got drunk around people he didn't know, and was raped?

I should be able to take a qualude, lay face down in the middle of a club, butt naked, and not have to worry about getting raped. The same should be said about females.

 

[Tucker Case]

I should be able to take a qualude, lay face down in the middle of a club, butt naked, and not have to worry about getting raped.

Sadly, what should be and what actually is are often two very different things. Anyone who does that is doing something phenomenally stupid and putting themselves in a position to be victimized. That's the reality of things.