Raise or lower taxes and on who?

[distraff]

Here are the effective taxes (not just income tax) each group of Americans are paying:
http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/02/img/te07chart2.jpg

Basically actual tax paid are:
Poor (0-35,000): 6.5%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 13.5%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): ~18.5%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 21%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): ~20%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): ~19%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 16%

What would your effective federal tax rates be for these income groups whether you support the income tax, a flat tax, or a national sales tax.

Mine would be:
Poor (0-35,000): 5%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 10%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): 13%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 20%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): 25%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): 30%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 35%

Taxes are too high in general and many poor and middle class are struggling and that is why I am lowering taxes for most Americans. The incomes of the rich have grown a lot which is why they are getting a tax hike.

Give me your general idea of what effective federal tax rates would be for these income groups.

 

[fmw]

I would eliminate income tax altogether. I would replace it with much higher duties on imported products and then size the government to fit that revenue stream. That would provide an incentive for businesses to bring manufacturing back home and hire people to do the manufacturing. It would allow people to keep more of their income. It would be a process with duties replacing income tax over time while the government worked its way into a more effective and efficient size. That's what I call tax reform.

 

[cpwill]

Lower Taxes on Everyone.

Except car salesmen who do their own commercials. Special Skyrocket Punitive Rates for them.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

What would your effective federal tax rates be for these income groups whether you support the income tax, a flat tax, or a national sales tax.

Mine would be:
Poor (0-35,000): 5%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 10%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): 13%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 20%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): 25%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): 30%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 35%

Taxes are too high in general and many poor and middle class are struggling and that is why I am lowering taxes for most Americans. The incomes of the rich have grown a lot which is why they are getting a tax hike.

Give me your general idea of what effective federal tax rates would be for these income groups.

We need to be clear, here.

When you say, for example, that the "working class" get a 10% rate, do they still pay 5% on their first $35,000 and 10% on the amount they earn above $35,000 and up to $50,000?

For those who don't know, THAT's what a "progressive" tax actually is.

 

[gdgyva]

Lower Taxes on Everyone.

Except car salesmen who do their own commercials. Special Skyrocket Punitive Rates for them.

hey now

leave my business alone

we already have enough issues

only lawyers have a worse reputation....

and everyday i try to change the hearts and minds of our customers

 

[pdog]

I would end corporate, excise, and sales taxes. It doesnt make any economic sense to tax production or consumption. The replacement would be marginally progressive on income alone with no deductions. Tax forms would be the size of a postit note.

The rate should be 0 all the way to the poverty line and beyond and ramping slowly thru the middle class - basically following marginal propensity to consume. The rate could also go negative as a function of the unemployment rate.

The rate could progress to 99% but for "marketing" purposes a cap between 50 and 70 is probably better. Although equally effective marketing could be lower taxes for the upper middle and lower upper classes. In any case the idea would be to better utilize dollars destined to turning into investment sector inflation.

 

[distraff]

We need to be clear, here.

When you say, for example, that the "working class" get a 10% rate, do they still pay 5% on their first $35,000 and 10% on the amount they earn above $35,000 and up to $50,000?

For those who don't know, THAT's what a "progressive" tax actually is.

I am talking about total effective federal taxes not just the income tax. Total effective federal taxes have nothing to do with tax brackets.

 

[distraff]

I would eliminate income tax altogether. I would replace it with much higher duties on imported products and then size the government to fit that revenue stream. That would provide an incentive for businesses to bring manufacturing back home and hire people to do the manufacturing. It would allow people to keep more of their income. It would be a process with duties replacing income tax over time while the government worked its way into a more effective and efficient size. That's what I call tax reform.

How much revenue can duties take in. If duties are going to be high enough to take in more than a trillion a year, they need to be very high maybe even making imported goods far more expensive than local ones. This will result in far fewer imports, higher prices, and far less tax revenue. The higher the duties, the lower the imports, and this can lower revenues.

Also, duties are effectively a regressive (tax poor people at a higher rate than rich people) tax since they will result in higher taxes on products and the poorer you are the higher percent of your income you will have to spend to buy things.

 

[distraff]

I would end corporate, excise, and sales taxes. It doesnt make any economic sense to tax production or consumption. The replacement would be marginally progressive on income alone with no deductions. Tax forms would be the size of a postit note.

The rate should be 0 all the way to the poverty line and beyond and ramping slowly thru the middle class - basically following marginal propensity to consume. The rate could also go negative as a function of the unemployment rate.

The rate could progress to 99% but for "marketing" purposes a cap between 50 and 70 is probably better. Although equally effective marketing could be lower taxes for the upper middle and lower upper classes. In any case the idea would be to better utilize dollars destined to turning into investment sector inflation.

I tried to create an estimate of how much taxes would be under your tax system:
Poor (0-35,000): -3%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 5%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): 10%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 15%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): 20%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): 40%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 60%

Is this accurate?

 

[distraff]

Lower Taxes on Everyone.

Except car salesmen who do their own commercials. Special Skyrocket Punitive Rates for them.

How much?

 

[Neomalthusian]

Here are the effective taxes (not just income tax) each group of Americans are paying:
http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/02/img/te07chart2.jpg

Basically actual tax paid are:
Poor (0-35,000): 6.5%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 13.5%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): ~18.5%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 21%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): ~20%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): ~19%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 16%

What would your effective federal tax rates be for these income groups whether you support the income tax, a flat tax, or a national sales tax.

Mine would be:
Poor (0-35,000): 5%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 10%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): 13%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 20%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): 25%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): 30%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 35%

Taxes are too high in general and many poor and middle class are struggling and that is why I am lowering taxes for most Americans. The incomes of the rich have grown a lot which is why they are getting a tax hike.

Give me your general idea of what effective federal tax rates would be for these income groups.

The graphic admits to using a different measure altogether for the top 400 but sticking that bar on the graph nonetheless. I wonder why they would do that?

If you're going to look at the extreme margins (top 0.0001%) you have to be honest about what's going on. Their tax rate is not lower than those who earn less than them. What's different is that these folks are so rich that their earnings are entirely (or almost entirely) capital gains. You might as well look at the poorest/worst-off 400 individuals too, which let's just say are likely to be homeless alcoholics, who because of high excise taxes on alcohol end up paying a higher rate than ANYONE! OMG can you believe that?! We're taxing the poor regressively!

Only if you insist on comparing apples to oranges. Apples to apples doesn't help support the rhetoric does it? Gotta apply some spin to make it interesting and pull together a story that supports the mission you had set your mind to in the first place...

 

[cpwill]

Lower Taxes on Everyone.

Except car salesmen who do their own commercials. Special Skyrocket Punitive Rates for them.

How much?

I don't know. Maybe an extra 5% of Gross for every joke, pun, or humorous gimmick that does not actually make anyone laugh?

 

[JayDubya]

Flatten taxes so that everyone pays the same percentage on whatever is being taxed.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I would end corporate, excise, and sales taxes. It doesnt make any economic sense to tax production or consumption. The replacement would be marginally progressive on income alone with no deductions. Tax forms would be the size of a postit note.

The rate should be 0 all the way to the poverty line and beyond and ramping slowly thru the middle class - basically following marginal propensity to consume. The rate could also go negative as a function of the unemployment rate.

The rate could progress to 99% but for "marketing" purposes a cap between 50 and 70 is probably better. Although equally effective marketing could be lower taxes for the upper middle and lower upper classes. In any case the idea would be to better utilize dollars destined to turning into investment sector inflation.

Really? We should not tax consumption yet should base income tax rates on the perceived ability to consume?

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I understand effective tax rates, but I have no idea how it is being proposed to be implemented. Since it is more than just income tax, how would I even calculate what I'm paying across all the Federal taxes paid?

This feels like one of those academic discussions without regard to how it would be implemented.

 

[fmw]

How much revenue can duties take in. If duties are going to be high enough to take in more than a trillion a year, they need to be very high maybe even making imported goods far more expensive than local ones. This will result in far fewer imports, higher prices, and far less tax revenue. The higher the duties, the lower the imports, and this can lower revenues.

Who said anything about a trillion per year. You missed the part about resizing government.

Also, duties are effectively a regressive (tax poor people at a higher rate than rich people) tax since they will result in higher taxes on products and the poorer you are the higher percent of your income you will have to spend to buy things.

It "taxes" everyone at the same rate but the tax is optional. You only pay it when you choose to buy an import. Also you missed the part about the incentive for manufacturers to bring manufacturing back home and create manufacturing jobs. Your argument is political. Mine is practical.

 

[distraff]

Who said anything about a trillion per year. You missed the part about resizing government.



It "taxes" everyone at the same rate but the tax is optional. You only pay it when you choose to buy an import. Also you missed the part about the incentive for manufacturers to bring manufacturing back home and create manufacturing jobs. Your argument is political. Mine is practical.

If your argument is practical then tell me how high would these taxes will these taxes be?

 

[distraff]

Flatten taxes so that everyone pays the same percentage on whatever is being taxed.

What percent would everyone pay?

 

[fmw]

They aren't taxes, they are import duties. They don't apply to domestically manufactured products. How much they should be depends on how big or small we want government to be.

 

[distraff]

I understand effective tax rates, but I have no idea how it is being proposed to be implemented. Since it is more than just income tax, how would I even calculate what I'm paying across all the Federal taxes paid?

This feels like one of those academic discussions without regard to how it would be implemented.

The problem with many proposals that discuss implementation is that not enough weight is given to the actual difference in tax rate on Americans and the actual difference in the rate on different income groups. This is an academic discussion but it is important for seeing how high people want taxes to be and how progressive they should be.

 

[distraff]

They aren't taxes, they are import duties. They don't apply to domestically manufactured products. How much they should be depends on how big or small we want government to be.

You said you wanted a practical discussion but you won't even give me a number. The rate of your tax will determine how much imports will be discouraged and how much your tax will reduce them. It will also determine how much revenue the government gets and how much it will have to cut from its budget. Lets be practical here. Give me a number.

 

[fmw]

You said you wanted a practical discussion but you won't even give me a number. The rate of your tax will determine how much imports will be discouraged and how much your tax will reduce them. It will also determine how much revenue the government gets and how much it will have to cut from its budget. Lets be practical here. Give me a number.

25%. What's your number?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The problem with many proposals that discuss implementation is that not enough weight is given to the actual difference in tax rate on Americans and the actual difference in the rate on different income groups. This is an academic discussion but it is important for seeing how high people want taxes to be and how progressive they should be.

Then your whole "academic" exercise focusing on fed taxes is pointless, that is not the only tax on all US taxpayers. You could go and create some magical flat rate at a fed level, but you would still have lower quintiles paying a greater share of their incomes at state/local levels.

 

[Winchester]

Flatten taxes so that everyone pays the same percentage on whatever is being taxed.

If one believes the percentages in the OP, How much flatter can you realistic get with the exception of bringing the Rich, Very Rich and Super Rich up to the level of the Well Off crowd?

 

[TurtleDude]

I tried to create an estimate of how much taxes would be under your tax system:
Poor (0-35,000): -3%
Working Class (35,000-50,000): 5%
Middle Class (50,000-100,000): 10%
Well Off Americans (100,000-350,000): 15%
Rich Americans (350,000-1,000,000): 20%
Very Rich Americans (1 million on): 40%
Super Rich (Several hundred thousand): 60%

Is this accurate?

I would end income tax altogether since it encourages the pimps in office to pander to the many with promises only the top brackets will pay more

no one should pay more than 1/5 of their next dollar to the government if you must have an income tax

since the rich pay more ACTUAL Dollars they should pay lower rates

and most of the middle class doesn't get proper feedback as to the cost of the nanny government they want

they need to pay more so as to create a bad taste as to too much government