Racist Paedophile ring [W:348 & 389]

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

zoetherat said:

these people know they can commit mass rape against children right in front of everyone's noses .

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It's pretty damn absurd when the very people who prattle on with their idiotic dogma in a witch hunt against thought crimes go on and on about "Islamophobia" when they are the very ones who are actually exhibiting the phobic reactions. Phobia is a fearful reaction, and people living in fear do not confront a problem, they cower before it.

It's bad enough that their cowardice allows the rape of their children to be conducted so brazenly. That their deference has led them to something akin to that of the sufferers of Stockholm syndrome where they actually identify with those waging war upon them and defend those who are doing so is downright pathetic.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

lizzie said:

I personally have serious doubts that "leaving it to the community" would accomplish anything at all. When a problem is systemic to a culture, it won't easily be changed by intellectual means.

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In fact doing nothing can often reinforce those cultural and religious beliefs.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Let me tell you, if I was a father and someone raped my daughter and the police wouldn't or couldn't do anything about it, I'd hunt down the rapist and do things to them that would make them wish they were dead. ANY community has the power to stop this sort of thing from happening so blatantly. If a few rapists get the snot beat out of them by a mob that knows where they live, that alone will make the rest become a whole lot more circumspect. Yet, the Pakistani community seems content to sit on their hands. The whites aren't going to do it because they've been taught not to act with that kind of sectarian solidarity, and they've been taught to let police handle such matters. The real mistake was in letting muslims immigrate in the first place. If you let a group immigrate and then you then have to "change their attitudes" to keep them from raping your children, then you should never have let them immigrate. And yeah, I'm sure most Pakistanis are upstanding citizens, but that's beside the point. You grant immigration to the groups that won't bring serious problems into your society.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Grant said:

In fact doing nothing can often reinforce those cultural and religious beliefs.

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I wouldn't say that Andy, Infinite, Manc and others are doing nothing. They are really quite active in providing the sorts of rhetoric that enables it by providing such a dense wall of rhetoric attacking any that do want to get at the root of the problem, that few are willing to cut through it.

They are like the offensive line in American football whose job it is to protect the quarterback and open up holes for the running backs. They do not score directly, themselves, but they sure do protect those who are on the offensive.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Gardener said:

It goes beyond deference as it is so aggressively enabling as to be almost more of a problem than the Islamism, since it runs interference for it. It denies there is even a problem to begin with, downplays that problem, minimizes it, ignores it, and attacks anybody who is honest enough to acknowledge the problem.

A woman is beheaded in her backyard in Edmonton by a recent Muslim convert and the press takes incredible care to suppress the information about the assailant. He is just referred to as an anonymous crazy man doing random crazy things, but nobody is even the least bit interested in the telltale manner of the attack, itself.

Why is nobody intelligent enough to ask the most basic question "what the hell is being taught in Mosques in Britain?" In an era when those who behead journalists with such glee are talking with a British accent, I would think a few more people would be asking that question instead of indulging in nothing but conditioned responses.

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This is interesting. Syria crisis: British jihadists becoming disillusioned at fighting rival rebels and want to come home - Middle East - World - The Independent

Why do British Muslims actually have to leave Britain to discover the truth of what's going on in the ME? Some of these Jihadists, such as those on the beheading videos, seem to have adapted well, but what's going on in the mosques and schools that would plant these ideas in the first place?

Had they respect for the White members of their communities they may not have gone all Jihaddy, but when Christian/Jewish/Atheist members of their communities are silent on rapes and 'grooming' I can see where their lack of respect would take hold.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

zoetherat said:

Among most communities, pedos are constrained by the fact that everyone thinks they're the lowest of the low. They can't just go out and form a local rapist gang and start mass raping children and have everyone know about it to boot. If pedos in the Pakistani muslim community can do that, it shows that the normal constraints found in every other society in Britain don't exist in parts of that community. Even if the cops were actually doing their job, I'm not sure they'd be all that successful in stopping these rapes since they can't put people in jail for grooming, they'd need victims to be brave enough to testify, and the rape gangs would threaten the girl's families if they did testify. In most communities in the world, rapists would face vigilante action if the police were incapable or unwilling to stop the rapists themselves, but these people know they can commit mass rape against children right in front of everyone's noses and the worst anyone will do is talk about how we need to "change attitudes". When attitudes of mysogeny and superiority are based not only in a difference of culture, but one of religion and dress, they're going to be hard to change. I'm especially pessimistic when people talk about "changing attitudes" as a solution for stopping rape when it seems to me more likely to be the other way around- changing attitudes is contingent on stopping rape. You can't make something socially unacceptable when it's happening all the time.

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Spot on! Behaviors are a heck of a lot easier to change than attitudes. The fact that the behavior is rape almost demands you attempt to change the behavior first anyways. If you see someone raping a kid and want to stop it (I hope you would), would you take immediate action to stop the behavior or take immediate action to change their mind about it?

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Gardener said:

I wouldn't say that Andy, Infinite, Manc and others are doing nothing. They are really quite active in providing the sorts of rhetoric that enables it by providing such a dense wall of rhetoric attacking any that do want to get at the root of the problem, that few are willing to cut through it. They are like the offensive line in American football whose job it is to protect the quarterback and open up holes for the running backs. They do not score directly, themselves, but they sure do protect those who are on the offensive.

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And I can certainly understand the disrespect Muslims have for their host communities when members of these communities try to defend rape, grooming, riots, etc. I doubt most Muslims would approve of these crimes but when the left are defending and denying them I can see where they'd become just as offended and frustrated as most non Muslims. It seems, like these young girls, that they can't expect much justice from their host communities either.

By downplaying these crimes it is the left who are giving all Muslims a bad name, as though they are incapable of telling right from wrong, and must be treated differently from 'normal' human beings.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

CycloneWanderer said:

If you see someone raping a kid and want to stop it (I hope you would), would you take immediate action to stop the behavior or take immediate action to change their mind about it?

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A normal, decent person would.

As we have seen, though, many people would rather ignore the reasons for the behavior and continue with their little witch hunts for thought crime, instead. They receive rewards for doing so in the form of approval from their peers, whereas talking the actual problem would receive only condemnation. They can be quite aggressive by way of ensuring the status quo continues.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Gardener said:

I wouldn't say that Andy, Infinite, Manc and others are doing nothing. They are really quite active in providing the sorts of rhetoric that enables it by providing such a dense wall of rhetoric attacking any that do want to get at the root of the problem, that few are willing to cut through it.

They are like the offensive line in American football whose job it is to protect the quarterback and open up holes for the running backs. They do not score directly, themselves, but they sure do protect those who are on the offensive.

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I'll give you this - you can lie consistently and continuously despite losing the debate.

You failed on the rape jihad lie and are still trying to make out that British people's attitudes in general have anything to do with paedophiles success or not in getting victims.

you've failed miserably on all questions but I will ask another two - also, any of your brave supporters can have a go as I think you need help in more ways than one.

1) what work were the majority of the Pakistani Muslims employed in so that they came into contact with so many victims?

2) where did the grooming occur?

3a) what authority did Alexis jay's report state clearly disbelieved the figures and thus allow the paedophile gangs to become braver and expand on their actions?

3b) In light of continued efforts to lie and pretend British DP posters have anything to do with above - where are Andy, Manc Skipper or myself mentioned in Alexis Jay's reports and what role did we play in events?

Be prepared for me to copy paste ad infinitum while you lie and posture to your audience of fawning unquestioning posters.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

gunner said:

-- Many commentators have referred to the 'PC' aspect of the case. I don't think considering the amount agencies who undoubtedly turned a 'blind eye', that it is even contestable. Having a fear of taking 'action', does not condone the resultant 'inaction' --

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Paul, the report is clear (as were the other reports). The original report placed in front of senior police was disbelieved. Plain and simple.

The "PC" element came afterwards where top-down instructions were given to staff to be wary of race. 3 reports clearly mentioned race but the last two were brushed aside because of "PC" - whereas critically, the first report was brushed aside by policemen.

Alexis Jay's report clearly states that many staff were aware of the race element but had to downplay it. That is specific and clear - the lies our American and Canadian cousins are pushing repeatedly is that this was a widespread British cultural issue.

To me, fault can clearly be pinned on those decision-makers directly responsible. All else is just fantasy posting.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

I'll give you this - you can lie consistently and continuously despite losing the debate.

You failed on the rape jihad lie and are still trying to make out that British people's attitudes in general have anything to do with paedophiles success or not in getting victims.

you've failed miserably on all questions but I will ask another two - also, any of your brave supporters can have a go as I think you need help in more ways than one.

1) what work were the majority of the Pakistani Muslims employed in so that they came into contact with so many victims?

2) where did the grooming occur?

3a) what authority did Alexis jay's report state clearly disbelieved the figures and thus allow the paedophile gangs to become braver and expand on their actions?

3b) In light of continued efforts to lie and pretend British DP posters have anything to do with above - where are Andy, Manc Skipper or myself mentioned in Alexis Jay's reports and what role did we play in events?

Be prepared for me to copy paste ad infinitum while you lie and posture to your audience of fawning unquestioning posters.

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Speaking of being aggressive to ensure the status quo continues.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

Paul, the report is clear (as were the other reports). The original report placed in front of senior police was disbelieved. Plain and simple.

The "PC" element came afterwards where top-down instructions were given to staff to be wary of race. 3 reports clearly mentioned race but the last two were brushed aside because of "PC" - whereas critically, the first report was brushed aside by policemen.

Alexis Jay's report clearly states that many staff were aware of the race element but had to downplay it. That is specific and clear - the lies our American and Canadian cousins are pushing repeatedly is that this was a widespread British cultural issue.

To me, fault can clearly be pinned on those decision-makers directly responsible. All else is just fantasy posting.

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I disagree.

One brave Victim testimony states: "I was in a state of undress as was the Asian man. The Police officer came in and we locked eyes, he turned to his colleague and said NOTHING to see here, and left"

Members of the public reported "The Asian men used to wait outside the school gates, and young girls would get in and then drive away"

This was backed up by "Teachers reporting the issue to authorities"

These are just some of the instances of the most grotesque forms of PC imaginable. IC, there is absolutely NO other way of interpreting the inaction, other than to say, the 'culture of fear' in those that were in positions of authority was so ingrained, that they failed to act in any meaningful way. All the above are widely reported facts. I'm really clueless as to what it is you are defending?

http://www.southyorkshiretimes.co.u...-victims-police-knew-but-didn-t-act-1-6811215

She said she was groomed from the age of 11, and suffered dozens of attacks over five years at the hands of a gang of Asian men.

She said: “They felt they were fearless and untouchable. They laughed and said they would never be punished.

“The police said I was ‘asking for it’ and that I didn’t do myself any favours by hanging around with these men.

“I was taken in by social services half a dozen times and had an assigned social worker who was very much aware of what was happening. I was being viciously groomed and locked in strange homes with dirty, filthy men. I had no voice to speak. No-one listened.”




Paul

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

gunner said:

I'm really clueless as to what it is you are defending?

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His culture, people or religion is my guess.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Gardener said:

His culture, people or religion is my guess.

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Gardener said:

Speaking of being aggressive to ensure the status quo continues.

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How's the fantasy rape jihad going?

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

I'll give you this - you can lie consistently and continuously despite losing the debate.

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I''m afraid he's got you there, Gardener!

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

gunner said:

I disagree.

One brave Victim testimony states: "I was in a state of undress as was the Asian man. The Police officer came in and we locked eyes, he turned to his colleague and said NOTHING to see here, and left"

Members of the public reported "The Asian men used to wait outside the school gates, and young girls would get in and then drive away"

This was backed up by "Teachers reporting the issue to authorities"

These are just some of the instances of the most grotesque forms of PC imaginable. IC, there is absolutely NO other way of interpreting the inaction, other than to say, the 'culture of fear' in those that were in positions of authority was so ingrained, that they failed to act in any meaningful way. All the above are widely reported facts. I'm really clueless as to what it is you are defending?

Rotherham scandal victims:

She said she was groomed from the age of 11, and suffered dozens of attacks over five years at the hands of a gang of Asian men.

She said: “They felt they were fearless and untouchable. They laughed and said they would never be punished.

“The police said I was ‘asking for it’ and that I didn’t do myself any favours by hanging around with these men.

“I was taken in by social services half a dozen times and had an assigned social worker who was very much aware of what was happening. I was being viciously groomed and locked in strange homes with dirty, filthy men. I had no voice to speak. No-one listened.”

Paul

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What you're describing is the police attitude which at the top was disbelief and from the officers was the attitude that these girls were somehow asking for trouble or even deliberately seeking the company of men.

If we can ignore ignorant comments from elsewhere and speak honestly - you can google these reports and articles in the UK from honest websites and news sources. This was not "PC" but a specific and appalling attitude among police officers. There have been documentaries here on British TV where you see policemen trying to deal with young girls on the street and the serious "attitude" the officers have to deal with.

You are honest enough to know I am not condoning the police attitude but you cannot call it "PC." You know just as well as I do that several judges have caused outrage by speaking of children as if they were sexually promiscuous adults.

For the American audience - this is not condoning or ignoring islam / muslims / green spotted aliens / rape jihads in Sweden / the muslim on the moon etc etc etc.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

How's the fantasy rape jihad going?

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You have a lot of those fantasy rapes?

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Grant said:

I''m afraid he's got you there, Gardener!

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You two are like zombies, no matter how many times your lies are exposed, you keep coming back with the same dishonest lies and attitude as if nothing had happened.

Grant said:

You have a lot of those fantasy rapes?

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Yes, I seem to remember you claiming that muslims were responsible for 92% f sexual abuse and rape against children.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

You two are like zombies, no matter how many times your lies are exposed, you keep coming back with the same dishonest lies and attitude as if nothing had happened.

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Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should take your posts more seriously and respond more promptly.

Just kidding!

Yes, I seem to remember you claiming that muslims were responsible for 92% f sexual abuse and rape against children.

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I can't be held responsible for your memories.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Grant said:

-- I can't be held responsible for your memories.

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Let me remind you of your dishonesty - http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...way-another-w-28-306-a-15.html#post1063704840

I expect that to be like water off a duck's back - dishonesty off an islamophobe's back.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

an islamophobe.

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Yes, that is EXACTLY the word people fear so much there in your adopted country that they allow their children to be raped.

Thank you for being so direct about it this time.

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

Let me remind you of your dishonesty - http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...way-another-w-28-306-a-15.html#post1063704840

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Where is my dishonesty? Are you having those same fantasies again?

I expect that to be like water off a duck's back - dishonesty off an islamophobe's back.

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Oh,No! Not an Islamophobe!! That really stings!

re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Moderator's Warning:

Gardener, Grant, and Infinite Chaos. Cease the personal crap now or you'll be booted from the thread.

Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

I'm finished here anyway - facts are the one true remaining feature of the thread:

1) Senior figures in the police failed the victims in 2002 - not politicians, not "political correctness"

2) No posters on this forum were in any way responsible or involved in events at Rotherham, Rochedale or any of the other places in the world were rape gangs have operated.

3) The Pakistani muslim rape gangs did not just target white girls.

4) Pakistani muslim rape gangs are not responsible for any more than 10% of the child sex or adult rapes that are recorded in this country.

5) There is no "rape jihad" except in people's minds.

6) The Pakistani muslim rape gangs were paedophiles first and foremost and like all paedophiles depended on opportunity and vulnerable victims.

7) If the facts don't support you - be dishonest and attack other posters.

8) And finally, claims of "racism" are very interesting because the only people who have even mentioned or recognised that there were muslim / Pakistani girls targeted were myself, Andy and Manc (in his report).

I will remember that when the next thread starts up claiming concern for brown girls in burkas and niqabs as younger, more vulnerable brown girls have not been mentioned or shown any concern about.

Goodbye from this thread. Here is the report once again

Re: Racist Paedophile ring [W:348]

Infinite Chaos said:

I'm finished here anyway - facts are the one true remaining feature of the thread:

1) Senior figures in the police failed the victims in 2002 - not politicians, not "political correctness"

2) No posters on this forum were in any way responsible or involved in events at Rotherham, Rochedale or any of the other places in the world were rape gangs have operated.

3) The Pakistani muslim rape gangs did not just target white girls.

4) Pakistani muslim rape gangs are not responsible for any more than 10% of the child sex or adult rapes that are recorded in this country.

5) There is no "rape jihad" except in people's minds.

6) The Pakistani muslim rape gangs were paedophiles first and foremost and like all paedophiles depended on opportunity and vulnerable victims.

7) If the facts don't support you - be dishonest and attack other posters.

8) And finally, claims of "racism" are very interesting because the only people who have even mentioned or recognised that there were muslim / Pakistani girls targeted were myself, Andy and Manc (in his report).

I will remember that when the next thread starts up claiming concern for brown girls in burkas and niqabs as younger, more vulnerable brown girls have not been mentioned or shown any concern about.

Goodbye from this thread. Here is the report once again

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A shame you feel that way IC.

From the report:

"In the broader organisational context, however, there was a widespread perception that messages conveyed by some senior people in the Council and also the Police, were to 'downplay' the ethnic dimensions of CSE. Unsurprisingly, frontline staff appeared to be confused as to what they were supposed to say and do and what would be interpreted as 'racist'. From a political perspective, the approach of avoiding public discussion of the issues was ill judged."

"There was too much reliance by agencies on traditional community leaders such as elected members and imams as being the primary conduit of communication with the Pakistani-heritage community. The Inquiry spoke to several Pakistani-heritage women who felt disenfranchised by this and thought it was a barrier to people coming forward to talk about CSE. Others believed there was wholesale denial of the problem in the Pakistani-heritage community in the same way that other forms of abuse were ignored. Representatives of women's groups were frustrated that interpretations of the Borough's problems with CSE were often based on an assumption that similar abuse did not take place in their own community and therefore concentrated mainly on young white girls."

"Both women and men from the community voiced strong concern that other than two meetings in 2011, there had been no direct engagement with them about CSE over the past 15 years, and this needed to be addressed urgently, rather than 'tiptoeing' around the issue."

"She also reported in 2006 that young people in Rotherham believed at that time that the Police dared not act against Asian youths for fear of allegations of racism. This perception was echoed at the present time by some young people we met during the Inquiry, but was not supported by specific examples."

"Several people interviewed expressed the general view that ethnic considerations had influenced the policy response of the Council and the Police, rather than in individual cases. One example was given by the Risky Business project Manager (1997- 2012) who reported that she was told not to refer to the ethnic origins of perpetrators when carrying out training. Other staff in children’s social care said that when writing reports on CSE cases, they were advised by their managers to be cautious about referring to the ethnicity of the perpetrators."

Don't take this the wrong way, but If you cannot draw out the portions of 'PC fear' from the above, it is good that you leave the thread. It doesn't matter where the message came from, it was still central to the failings of those in positions of authority.

Paul