Public Union Demands Should be Made Public?

[MaggieD]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

 

[Connery]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

To keep the public from knowing about what the demands and negotiations are thereby staving off any public opposition. If the taxpayer is interested enough they will compel these negotiations and propositions to be made public.

 

[haymarket]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

This works to the disadvantage of people involved on both sides. Rank and file union members also would like to see what it being done at the bargaining table so that their interests are both properly represented and not sold out.

I suspect that NEITHER of the parties who are doing the actual negotiations what this to be done in the full public spotlight.

 

[Maenad]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

To which public unions do you refer? As best I recall unions are composed of individuals who pay dues, not the general public.

 

[MaggieD]

To which public unions do you refer? As best I recall unions are composed of individuals who pay dues, not the general public.

Public sector union employees are paid for with tax dollars. Taxpayers have a responsibility and a right to see the bargaining positions of both sides.

 

[Diogenes]

To which public unions do you refer? As best I recall unions are composed of individuals who pay dues, not the general public.

At least that's the theory...

 

[Connery]

Public sector union employees are paid for with tax dollars. Taxpayers have a responsibility and a right to see the bargaining positions of both sides.

The following is a case in point. However it was the union that asked the negotiations be made public in the spirit of full disclosure.

The Douglas County Federation of Teachers turned heads last March when it asked the local school board to make their contract negotiations open to the public. Teacher unions typically do their collective bargaining behind closed doors, to keep taxpayers from discovering all the expensive union “goodies” that get slipped in among the legalese. That’s why the DCFT’s request for public talks raised quite a few eyebrows among union friends and foes alike.

Public allowed to monitor contentious contract negotiations in Colorado district -

 

[Gipper]

Can I vote "other" if I feel all unions should be busted with extreme prejudice?

 

[lizzie]

Yes, they should. If we are paying for them, we should know what we are paying for, and the justification for it.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

If the tax paying public was fully aware of the pay and benefits packages public workers receive there would be no way in hell taxes could ever be raised again. There would be riots in the streets demanding public union workers take some cuts before any tax went up. It is imperative the worker bees in this country be kept in the dark, just do your jobs, pay your taxes and STFU.

 

[Wiseone]

Public sector union employees are paid for with tax dollars. Taxpayers have a responsibility and a right to see the bargaining positions of both sides.

Can I vote "other" if I feel all unions should be busted with extreme prejudice?

Unions are protected under the 1st Amendment, there is no legal reason to bust them up. But I do agree that because the union's members are paid with taxpayer dollars that people have a right to see what is being demanded of the government.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Why are everyone's negotiations not open? Everyone should know their colleagues salaries.

 

[Connery]

Why are everyone's negotiations not open? Everyone should know their colleagues salaries.

If you work in the public sector salaries are generally published. One just has to know where to look.

 

[Manc Skipper]

If you work in the public sector salaries are generally published. One just has to know where to look.

I know, but why shouldn't that openness be extended to the private sector too?

 

[Connery]

I know, but why shouldn't that openness be extended to the private sector too?

IMO of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, that depends on the parties and who they wish knowing their business and business practices. In the private sector a business is out to turn a profit and if salaries were made known there would be group demands etc etc etc ... Besides Private Sector is enterprises are generally not under any duty to disclose unless by statute, such as in an annual report to shareholders of a corporation.

§ 620.5 Contents of the annual report to shareholders.

 

[justabubba]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

unless the ground rules for the negotiations prohibit it, there is nothing which prevents the exposure of the union (and employer) proposals
normally, the parties will establish a time and date when the opening positions are exchanged, simultaneously
barring any ground rules to the contrary, there is nothing which prevents the employer from exposing the union's opening position. ditto regarding the union making public the employer's opening proposals

 

[MaggieD]

unless the ground rules for the negotiations prohibit it, there is nothing which prevents the exposure of the union (and employer) proposals
normally, the parties will establish a time and date when the opening positions are exchanged, simultaneously
barring any ground rules to the contrary, there is nothing which prevents the employer from exposing the union's opening position. ditto regarding the union making public the employer's opening proposals

My point is that it should be mandatory that opening positions be disclosed. Not that it be discretionary.

 

[justabubba]

My point is that it should be mandatory that opening positions be disclosed. Not that it be discretionary.

but my point is the negotiator for the employer is in no way prohibited from releasing that information
... unless the negotiator agreed to ground rules preventing such disclosure
so, it would seem your gripe is with the employer's negotiator for not exposing the union's initial proposal
if you are able to make a compelling argument why such disclosure is essential then you have a shot at convincing the government employer to require such disclosure in all negotiations
wish you luck with that

 

[MaggieD]

but my point is the negotiator for the employer is in no way prohibited from releasing that information
... unless the negotiator agreed to ground rules preventing such disclosure
so, it would seem your gripe is with the employer's negotiator for not exposing the union's initial proposal
if you are able to make a compelling argument why such disclosure is essential then you have a shot at convincing the government employer to require such disclosure in all negotiations
wish you luck with that

The "employer" is Rahm Emanuel. Good luck with that is right!! :rofl

 

[justabubba]

The "employer" is Rahm Emanuel. Good luck with that is right!! :rofl

i have tried to get my agency to allow videotaping of the negotiations since '85
very often the employer would agree to specific terms during negotiations only later to insist that it had not. the videotape was sought to document what was agreed
the employer has consistently declined that repeated request for 27 years
so, i would not be surprised if the former israeli army volunteer similarly refused
and i would not be at all surprised if the public union sided with you on this issue ... but i bet such agreement from the union would surprise you

 

[jamesrage]

Why are negotiations with public unions allowed to happen behind closed doors? Why aren't their demands made public?

Any negotiations should be made public.Tax payers are their employers and tax payers pay their bills.Therefore any closed meetings should be banned.

 

[radcen]

Public sector union employees are paid for with tax dollars. Taxpayers have a responsibility and a right to see the bargaining positions of both sides.

This is why I feel the results of the negotiations be made public, but the initial demands not necessarily. It's only the final results which the taxpayers are footing the bill.

 

[justabubba]

This is why I feel the results of the negotiations be made public, but the initial demands not necessarily. It's only the final results which the taxpayers are footing the bill.

by then, once the ink is dry on the final contract, it is too late
the taxpayers must not only live with the terms they are going to pay, they have no recourse to modify it before it is executed on their behalf
sure, they can vote out the scoundrels that were responsible for its terms, but the taxpayers still have to incur the costs of the mistakes (or graft) committed

besides, since the union members and the employer managers must have the contract to be able to implement its terms, the finished contract is always publicly available

 

[MaggieD]

by then, once the ink is dry on the final contract, it is too late
the taxpayers must not only live with the terms they are going to pay, they have no recourse to modify it before it is executed on their behalf
sure, they can vote out the scoundrels that were responsible for its terms, but the taxpayers still have to incur the costs of the mistakes (or graft) committed

besides, since the union members and the employer managers must have the contract to be able to implement its terms, the finished contract is always publicly available

Completely agree. Part of negotiating is "good faith." It would be interesting to see the good faith first-time offers coming from both sides. If either of them are. I think it would cause both sides to be more realistic.

 

[Tigger]

Maggie, do you have any idea how this sort of negotiation actually works? Have you ever been involved in a Union negotiation (public OR private)?

I have been involved in contract negotiations of the worst type.... first contract negotiations. Literally starting from nothing and coming up with a first contract for a newly unionized engineering group in a private company. It took us 16 months to get an agreement, and even then there were people on both sides who were not at all happy with what was agreed to. There is a lot of posturing, gamesmanship, politics, and just unpleasantry that goes on at these negotiations. Very few people realize that many of us would just as soon be sitting at our desks doing our regular work instead of sitting there trying to negotiate an agreement between two sides with totally different viewpoints on how things should work. If you were to make the process totally transparent the only thing that would happen is..... Nobody would ever get a contract agreement signed.