Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

[jaeger19]

do you know what very preliminary means? You buy predictions and the question is why? Why would you want to give bureaucrats more money and take it from the people who earned it? That isn't conservative at all

There are no trillion dollar additional deficits until they happened, Obama added 9.3 trillion and what the predictions want to ignore are the jobs that will be created and the new taxpayers generated along with economic activity. Absolutely stunning how the left has indoctrinated you

Yep.. I understand preliminary. Do YOU understand "predictions"... you have predicted that this tax cut is going to "pay for itself".. even though that theory has been disproved time and time again.

Wow.. there are no deficits until they happen? That's your "conservative view"? So okay.. lets reduce taxes to zero and increase spending by 100% because Conservative here says deficits don't happen until they happen!!! Sheesh.. the lengths you will go to prove that you aren;t a conservative, but a right wing liberal.

 

[Conservative]

Yep.. I understand preliminary. Do YOU understand "predictions"... you have predicted that this tax cut is going to "pay for itself".. even though that theory has been disproved time and time again.

Wow.. there are no deficits until they happen? That's your "conservative view"? So okay.. lets reduce taxes to zero and increase spending by 100% because Conservative here says deficits don't happen until they happen!!! Sheesh.. the lengths you will go to prove that you aren;t a conservative, but a right wing liberal.

Since tax cuts aren't an expense there is nothing to pay for. The leftwing radicals and bureaucrats have an incredible way of indoctrinating people into believing that keeping more of what you earn is an expense and has to be paid for

What has been destroyed over time is the FACT that both the Reagan and Bush Tax cuts GREW FIT REVENUE and when you have more revenue than without the cuts there cannot be any contribution to the debt. All the left wing radicals and yes even Republican bureaucrats crying about the people keeping more of what they earn know that this is a nail in the coffin of the bureaucracy meaning that people with more spendable income need less govt. bureaucracy and thus are unable to buy votes to secure their power.

My conservative view is the American taxpayer deserves to keep more of what they earn and that spending causes debt not people keeping more of what they earn.

 

[Conservative]

Bush's Oil War was the reason for the huge debt built by Obama, mostly in the first two years. And then, as you can see from the graph, the deficit started dropping drastically. Your deception is only exceeded by the Republican lies.

View attachment 67226456

LOL, sure it was, you see Bush's recession in 2001 had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it was Clinton's policies in place and that no Bush economic plan had been passed just like it was Bush's worst recovery from a recession in US history in 2009 with a Democratic Congress, an Obama stimulus, an Obama budget and no spending authority? Yes, liberal logic and the liberal inability to admit they are wrong on any subject even when proven wrong. What is it about liberalism that creates people like you who buys rhetoric and ignores actual data and results.

Now here is reality, Obama took office with 142 million Americans employed, signed an 842 BILLION dollar stimulus for shovel ready jobs in February 2009 and took Employment down 4 million the first year and 3 million the next year all costing the Treasury tax revenue along with 842 BILLION dollars. Had nothing to do with the wars as the wars were part of the debt that Obama inherited.

 

[Conservative]

Yep.. I understand preliminary. Do YOU understand "predictions"... you have predicted that this tax cut is going to "pay for itself".. even though that theory has been disproved time and time again.

Wow.. there are no deficits until they happen? That's your "conservative view"? So okay.. lets reduce taxes to zero and increase spending by 100% because Conservative here says deficits don't happen until they happen!!! Sheesh.. the lengths you will go to prove that you aren;t a conservative, but a right wing liberal.

Here is what you and the radical left want to ignore as you buy rhetoric and ignore data

Table 3.2. Federal Government Current Receipts and Expenditures
[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: November 29, 2017 - Next Release Date December 21, 2017

Line 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008
Line
1 Current receipts 533.7 621.1 618.7 644.8 711.2 775.7 817.9 899.5 962.4 2068.2 2031.8 1870.6 1895.1 2027.4 2303.5 2537.7 2667.2 2579.5
2Current tax receipts 356.2 408.3 387 393.7 425.7 460.7 479.8 544.2 567.2 1313.9 1253.9 1077.7 1075.5 1158.7 1389.3 1563.4 1642.4 1520.7
3 Personal current taxes1 250.6 291.2 295.6 286.8 301.9 336.5 350.6 393 403.8 999.8 996.3 832.8 778.5 803.2 936.8 1054.6 1169.7 1174.3

So let's see if I have this right, Reagan took over Personal FIT taxes of 250.6 billion dollars, cut FIT taxes three years in a row and saw FIT grow to 403.8 billion and that is what caused the deficits? People keeping more of what they earn according to this TREASURY DATA??

Bush then takes over FIT at 999.8 trillion has his tax cut fully implemented in 2003, ends up with 1174 and that is a cut in revenue in that liberal universe?? You people just have to get over your obsession with people keeping more of what they earn because those tax cuts DID NOT REDUCE REVENUE OR CAUSE THE DEFICIT

 

[Conservative]

It gives me great joy and satisfaction today to Wish each of you leftwing radicals, atheists, anti American socialists a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS and thank you so much for showing the American people your true colors thus giving us Donald Trump as President of the United States. The silent majority spoke and now as a result working Americans will get to keep more of what they earn and we have a President who put Christ back into Christmas. Thank you President Trump and God Bless

 

[j-mac]

Yes, revenues did increase under Reagan and Bush2, but not due to tax cuts. I say this because, during the eight years of budgets set under the last four presidents, revenues went up 60% under Obama, 13.5% under Bush2, 58% under Clinton and 50% under Reagan. You made a misleading statement if you knew these facts, or you’re just ignorant of the facts:

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

That's a different argument. Did the President's following tax cut revenue increases reap the rewards of those cuts? sure. Usually immediately followed by increase killing spending on both sides of the isle.

 

[Conservative]

That's a different argument. Did the President's following tax cut revenue increases reap the rewards of those cuts? sure. Usually immediately followed by increase killing spending on both sides of the isle.

This is a hard concept for the left to accept even when data is posted that shows revenue increasing .So how does a tax revenue increase have to be paid for??

 

[j-mac]

This is a hard concept for the left to accept even when data is posted that shows revenue increasing .So how does a tax revenue increase have to be paid for??

Well, not being even close to an expert in the field, I would say that tax cuts should be tied to a balanced budget, and an overhaul of entitlement programs.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Come on, Republicans. You have a golden opportunity to pass a bill that simplifies the tax code and gives permanent tax relief to the people you most need to get on your side - the middle class. You need to live up to your promise to reduce the deficit. You need to at least put forth the appearance of not wanting to help the wealthy and the corporations.

But you didn't. This bill is bad, and will negatively impact you for a very long time. This is history repeating itself. Look at what the ACA did to the Democrats.

It's depressing.

With the House of Representatives likely to take up the Republican tax reform bill Tuesday, the plan faces growing opposition and a widespread perception that it will benefit the wealthy more than the middle class, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS.

Opposition to the bill has grown 10 points since early November, and 55% now oppose it. Just 33% say they favor the GOP's proposals to reform the nation's tax code.

Related: Full poll results

Two-thirds see the bill as doing more to benefit the wealthy than the middle class (66%, vs. 27% who say it'll do more to benefit the middle class) and almost four in 10 (37%) say that if the bill becomes law, their own family will be worse off. That's grown five points since early November. Just 21% say they'll be better off if the bill becomes law.

President Donald Trump, the bill's salesperson-in-chief, lands at an overall 35% approval rating in this poll, his worst mark yet in CNN polling by one point. Trump's approval ratings continue to be the lowest for any modern president at this point in his presidency. As of December of their first year in office, all first-time elected presidents back to Eisenhower have approval ratings of 49% or higher except for Trump.

More than six in 10 (63%) see the tax bill as leaving the President and his family better off. Just 5% think it harms the Trump clan. And disapproval of the President's handling of taxes has risen six points in the last month, to 57%.


More here:

Public opposition to tax bill grows as vote approaches

Well, the GOP DID pass a major piece of legislation. Unless you're in the .1% or someone who believes in the trickle-down fairy, the bill is a major turd. I guess they couldn't find a pig to put lipstick on...

 

[apdst]

Well, the GOP DID pass a major piece of legislation. Unless you're in the .1% or someone who believes in the trickle-down fairy, the bill is a major turd. I guess they couldn't find a pig to put lipstick on...

Is the tax bill going to hurt you?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Well, not being even close to an expert in the field, I would say that tax cuts should be tied to a balanced budget, and an overhaul of entitlement programs.

The way it should work - they get a budget surplus, set aside some "rainy-day" funds, and then think about how much they can get away with reducing revenue by lowering taxes. OR, you can restructure the tax system in a revenue neutral way.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Is the tax bill going to hurt you?

Not until they start looking for ways to make up the lost revenue. You need the ability to think a few moves ahead to understand the ramifications of these things.

 

[apdst]

Not until they start looking for ways to make up the lost revenue. You need the ability to think a few moves ahead to understand the ramifications of these things.

Since it insn't going to hurt you; what's the problem? Just partisan hackery?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Since it insn't going to hurt you; what's the problem? Just partisan hackery?

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sorry.:2wave:

 

[j-mac]

Well, the GOP DID pass a major piece of legislation. Unless you're in the .1% or someone who believes in the trickle-down fairy, the bill is a major turd. I guess they couldn't find a pig to put lipstick on...

"We've been caught in a blizzard of misinformation claiming that this bill hurts the middle class. But even the Republican-hostile Tax Policy Center couldn't escape the empirical conclusion that 80 percent of all Americans will see their taxes reduced under the bill"

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...uts-taxes-for80-percent-of-americans-n2424201

So, with a hostile group saying that 80% of American's will receive a tax cut, I guess your analysis of the bill being a "major turd" is just sour grapes that average American's will get to keep more of their earned money...That's a winning strategy for 2018...Run with that.

 

[j-mac]

The way it should work - they get a budget surplus, set aside some "rainy-day" funds, and then think about how much they can get away with reducing revenue by lowering taxes. OR, you can restructure the tax system in a revenue neutral way.

Except that lowering taxes increases revenue.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Except that lowering taxes increases revenue.

Right. The major revenue source of the federal government is tax receipts, so lowering revenue will raise revenue...

Trickle-down fairy-nomics magic in that equation somewhere, but I don't believe in magic. It doesn't add up - projections are for a 1 trillion or more loss, not an increase.

 

[j-mac]

Right. The major revenue source of the federal government is tax receipts, so lowering revenue will raise revenue...

Trickle-down fairy-nomics magic in that equation somewhere, but I don't believe in magic. It doesn't add up - projections are for a 1 trillion or more loss, not an increase.

I've already documented where this happened, so have others...I would advise you look those posts up.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

I've already documented where this happened, so have others...I would advise you look those posts up.

Every attempt to do that I've seen has been a weak attempt at post hoc ergo propter hoc. Do you have anything more fact based?

 

[j-mac]

Every attempt to do that I've seen has been a weak attempt at post hoc ergo propter hoc. Do you have anything more fact based?

It's right there in the BLS....take a look

 

[upsideguy]

Since it insn't going to hurt you; what's the problem? Just partisan hackery?

Other than it will raise my taxes by 10% AND will likely put upward pressure on my healthcare expense AND now there is no money for infrastructure re-investment, so we are all at risk

You think you are safe in the sky?
https://www.economist.com/news/scie...ontrol-system-hindering-safety-sky-navigating

Hope you can swim?
The Ten States With the Worst Bridges | The Fiscal Times

Yes, all for it. I am more than happy to just give 30% of $1T to foreigners and receive nothing in return.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-tax-plan-winner-foreign-investors/

PLUS, the Republicans will suddenly decide deficits matter and start citing the need to cut costs.

Yes, this deal makes a ton of sense to Republicans who are either very wealthy or sufficiently under-educated such that they don't see they have been fleeced by the same man that fleeced thousands in Trump University

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think

 

[RamFel]

What is bad about the bill?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Not a dang thing!

 

[j-mac]

Other than it will raise my taxes by 10% AND will likely put upward pressure on my healthcare expense AND now there is no money for infrastructure re-investment, so we are all at risk

You think you are safe in the sky?
https://www.economist.com/news/scie...ontrol-system-hindering-safety-sky-navigating

Hope you can swim?
The Ten States With the Worst Bridges | The Fiscal Times

Yes, all for it. I am more than happy to just give 30% of $1T to foreigners and receive nothing in return.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-tax-plan-winner-foreign-investors/

PLUS, the Republicans will suddenly decide deficits matter and start citing the need to cut costs.

Yes, this deal makes a ton of sense to Republicans who are either very wealthy or sufficiently under-educated such that they don't see they have been fleeced by the same man that fleeced thousands in Trump University

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/trump-university-its-worse-than-you-think

I know it's only been two days since this was announced but....

"Vice President Mike Pence said the Trump administration will move “vigorously” on an infrastructure package and welfare reform now that Congress has passed a tax reform bill.

Mike Pence: Trump administration will move 'vigorously' on welfare reform and infrastructure

 

[upsideguy]

Except that lowering taxes increases revenue.

Except that it resulted in a fall of nearly 20% in income tax revenue after the 2001-03 tax cuts (because the implemented the plan that was designed to cut revenues)

The Economic Impact of President Bush's Tax Relief Plan | The Heritage Foundation

The biggest mis-calculation in human history...

The $12 Trillion Misunderstanding | RealClearPolitics

AND reduced federal revenues by almost 10% after the 1981 tax cuts (the response to which was to raise taxes in 1982.)

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/12/08/what-we-learned-from-reagans-tax-cuts/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Recovery_Tax_Act_of_1981


Sorry pal, but the idea that tax cuts necessarily raise revenue is a complete myth. Tax cuts most certainly reduce revenue in the short-run. When an economy needs stimulation (which is not the case now), tax cuts CAN be stimulative, but usually when they are in the form of payroll tax reductions (as 100% of the tax cuts are returned to the economy) as we experienced in 2009 as opposed to tax cuts for the wealthy (30% of which leave the country).

Did The Bush Tax Cuts Reduce Federal Tax Revenue ?

http://wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html

Feel free to look at the actual numbers in the federal budget. They can be found on Table 2.1 per the link below.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

 

[upsideguy]

I know it's only been two days since this was announced but....

"Vice President Mike Pence said the Trump administration will move “vigorously” on an infrastructure package and welfare reform now that Congress has passed a tax reform bill.

Mike Pence: Trump administration will move 'vigorously' on welfare reform and infrastructure

...and how are they going to spend $1T after just cutting taxes when we are running a deficit AND while working through an open conflict with Korea, which could result in war?

Cutting taxes and starting two un-funded wars worked out so great for the America and the Bush Administration 15 years ago. The took a shallacking in 2006 (probably would be paled in comparison to what they will experience in 2018) will America still hasn't closed the deficits that double-header created.