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Profiling Arabs

ANAV

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To those who think it is not politically correct to profile terrorist, consider the post attachment. Now I know that not all terrorists and evil people are Arabs but at some point we have to stop searching 80 year old silver-haired great grandmothers at airports while Arab looking passengers get a free pass because we don't want to offend anybody.
 

Attachments

Arthur Fonzarelli

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ANAV said:
To those who think it is not politically correct to profile terrorist, consider the post attachment. Now I know that not all terrorists and evil people are Arabs but at some point we have to stop searching 80 year old silver-haired great grandmothers at airports while Arab looking passengers get a free pass because we don't want to offend anybody.
It's funny that during the campaign John Kerry claimed that fighting terrorism should be a law enforcement job, but objects to profiling. He obviously doesn't understand law enforcement.
 

LaMidRighter

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This is where the "polite police" really tick me off. Profiling is a useful tool in prevention of crime, when used correctly. I think if we have an area that we know is producing a heavy amount of terrorists(statistically speaking), then we should at least check someone from said area for a few more minutes before allowing them access to something terrorists are known for desiring as an agent/venue for destruction. This is not to say that anyone who is arab or a little darker should be subjected to this, but really, I think our intelligence/homeland agencies know what to look for if we allow them to do their jobs, same as police with crime profiling based on neighborhood and gang colors. Also, most people without something to hide probably would understand.
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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As a former MP at Ft Bragg, NC we used to get a BOLO report at the start of our shift (B-O-L-O- be on the look out). It was a PROFILE on a possible suspect. I personally used it once to catch a high school girl who stole daddy's car to come & see her boyfriend (she drove all the way from Georgia without being caught). Not really the crime of the century but would not have been caught without a PROFILE. Unless, of course, we would have stopped every car as it came on post just to check it out. That would have been a waste of time & money.
 

LaMidRighter

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I agree, and it sounds like catching the girl was a pretty simple matter.......for you guys anyway. :smile:
 

nkgupta80

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And then people who complain about this profiling usually complain about this whole national security deal in airports being a waste of their time.

Well maybe if we actually practiced more profiling, we wouldnt waste so much times on the 80 year old grandmothers or the suburban mom with three kids, and the lines would actually move faster.

Hell, a lotta people say that I look arab or joke about me lookin like a terrorist (I am indian), and I definately wouldn't mind profiling in airports, even if it means that i get picked outta line everytime for 5 extra minutes of investigation or search.
 

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Sorry, I was only talking about profiling in airports (i wasn't addressing your post, haha i hadn't even read it), where national security against terrorists or any criminals is extrememly important. I also think their should be limits to how much the security can act on these suspicions based on profiling.

But yaeh what happened you guys was pretty messed up, and those are the instances that actually worry me.
 

GottaHurt

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Here's a little joke floating around the internet in regard to profiling:

HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened.

Do you remember?

-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of
people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
 

shuamort

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-1995 Oklahoma City Bombing
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
e. white male(s) that would slip through the racial profiling net

-1994 an advertising executive was killed by a mail bomb
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
e. white male(s) that would slip through the racial profiling net
 

Tashah

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A few weeks ago in Chicago, an airline-security/antiterrorism forum was held at the headquarters of the Chicago Police Department. This event was attended by federal agencies and representatives of over 150 police departments in Illinois.

The spotlight here was on a contingent of security experts from Israel (Border Police, Sayeret, Shin Bet etc.) who would dispense advice and answer questions. I attended this forum as a Hebrew/English translator at the behest of the Israeli Consulate in Chicago.

To be blunt, the Israeli's remarked on the inefficiency of security measures at US airports and furthermore... could not comprehend why profiling is considered by the US federal government to be a form of racism and ethnic harassment. During this lengthy all day forum, I learned some interesting and deeply disturbing information...

• The Transportation Security Administration, which is a part of the Department of Homeland Security, refuses to profile airline passengers who fit the terrorist profile of young, male, and Muslim. Like all passengers, they are subject to special screening only if they are randomly selected by computer or they meet criteria that have nothing to do with ethnicity or creed.

• The TSA has slapped numerous airlines with huge fines for removing suspicious Arab and Muslim passengers.

• The federal government has mandated that female Muslim passenger-screeners at airport security checkpoints be allowed to wear Muslim hijab (headscarves) while on the job.

• In the interest of political correctness, the federal government has eviscerated CAPPS (which is the airport computerized security system). Removed from the software-search-program are any references to national origin, ethnicity, religion, age, or gender.

• Airlines have been informed by the federal government that if they have more than three people of the same ethnic origin in line for additional screening, federal discrimination charges will be filed against the airline.

• The federal government has mandated that *all* airline employees attend classes on civil-rights laws and ethnic-sensitivity.

The sad truth is that if the security measures of US air-carriers mirrored those of Israel's air-carrier, the federal government would sue them right out of business. The US government is spending huge sums of money on bomb-scanning and other weapons screening devices rather than profiling passengers. The government seems to be more concerned about Muslim passengers filing discrimination charges than about terrorists once again using airplanes as weapons.

Needless to say, I doubt the Israeli's will put themselves through this sort of nonsense again any time soon. I can only wonder what they were thinking as they flew home on the secure wings of El Al.


 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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shuamort said:
-1995 Oklahoma City Bombing
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
e. white male(s) that would slip through the racial profiling net

-1994 an advertising executive was killed by a mail bomb
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
e. white male(s) that would slip through the racial profiling net
12 to 2...that gives us something like a 84% chance of getting it right with profiling & a 16% chance without profiling. OK, you convinced me...16% sounds so much better.
 

GottaHurt

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Tashah said:

A few weeks ago in Chicago, an airline-security/antiterrorism forum was held at the headquarters of the Chicago Police Department. This event was attended by federal agencies and representatives of over 150 police departments in Illinois.

The spotlight here was on a contingent of security experts from Israel (Border Police, Sayeret, Shin Bet etc.) who would dispense advice and answer questions. I attended this forum as a Hebrew/English translator at the behest of the Israeli Consulate in Chicago.

To be blunt, the Israeli's remarked on the inefficiency of security measures at US airports and furthermore... could not comprehend why profiling is considered by the US federal government to be a form of racism and ethnic harassment. During this lengthy all day forum, I learned some interesting and deeply disturbing information...

• The Transportation Security Administration, which is a part of the Department of Homeland Security, refuses to profile airline passengers who fit the terrorist profile of young, male, and Muslim. Like all passengers, they are subject to special screening only if they are randomly selected by computer or they meet criteria that have nothing to do with ethnicity or creed.

• The TSA has slapped numerous airlines with huge fines for removing suspicious Arab and Muslim passengers.

• The federal government has mandated that female Muslim passenger-screeners at airport security checkpoints be allowed to wear Muslim hijab (headscarves) while on the job.

In the interest of political correctness, the federal government has eviscerated CAPPS (which is the airport computerized security system). Removed from the software-search-program are any references to national origin, ethnicity, religion, age, or gender.

• Airlines have been informed by the federal government that if they have more than three people of the same ethnic origin in line for additional screening, federal discrimination charges will be filed against the airline.

• The federal government has mandated that *all* airline employees attend classes on civil-rights laws and ethnic-sensitivity.

The sad truth is that if the security measures of US air-carriers mirrored those of Israel's air-carrier, the federal government would sue them right out of business. The US government is spending huge sums of money on bomb-scanning and other weapons screening devices rather than profiling passengers. The government seems to be more concerned about Muslim passengers filing discrimination charges than about terrorists once again using airplanes as weapons.

Needless to say, I doubt the Israeli's will put themselves through this sort of nonsense again any time soon. I can only wonder what they were thinking as they flew home on the secure wings of El Al.
Great post. The section I highlighted just boggles my mind.The Political Correctness we're experiencing here in the US is ridiculous.The airlines, last time I checked, aren't owned by the government, and should be allowed to screen whoever they want, to allow onto their planes.
 

LaMidRighter

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galenrox said:
But the issue is whether or not it will be used correctly. I don't know about you, but I've been profiled quite a few times, and there's really nothing more infuriating being in that position, being subjected to abuse at the hands of the police, knowing you've done nothing wrong, and yet knowing that you have no way of defending yourself.
Here's an example. Keep in mind that at the time I had a few tattoos and a green mohawk, along with a few facial piercings.
I was sitting in my buddy's van in Winnetka, which is an extremely affluent suburb of Chicago, waiting for this girl to get home, because we were gonna hang out at her house that night. Also, keep in mind that there's nothing illegal going down in this van.
So anyways, after like 15 minutes of just chilling, some police cars pulled up behind us, and called for everyone to get out of the van. It was below 0, and I didn't have a coat, so I just told my buddies that I haven't done anything wrong, and I'm not about to freeze my ass off voluntarily, so just tell the cops that I'm in the van, but I'd prefer not to get out. About a minute later a cop showed up and the door and dragged me out of the van. They then made us stand there with our hands on the cop car (which they turned off to prevent us getting any warmth from the hood) for 45 minutes until the girl's dad saw that the cops were screwing with us, and came out and berated them until they left. And you want to know their justification for treating us like that? We were in a suspicious vehicle.
So I don't agree with profiling based on the fact that I know cops, and based on the cops I know, and my experiences with the cops, I don't trust cops, and I will especially not trust cops to use their discretion on ANYTHING!
These officers certainly overstepped the boundaries. If it would have been me(not an officer, but speak to many oftern) I may have been suspicious to see a van parked for an extended period in a driveway and maybe just checked to see that everything was alright for everyone(van occupants, home owner, neighborhood). This is just curiosity on my part, but if they would have simply asked your party a few questions and moved on, would you all have been offended, or would you have understood? I just want to see where the line is since we have someone that this happened to on the forum.
 

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GottaHurt said:
Here's a little joke floating around the internet in regard to profiling:

HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice test. The events are actual cuts from past history. They actually happened.

Do you remember?

-1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Lenno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3.During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6.In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7.In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9.In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill' s women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10.On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.Thousands of
people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11.In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Nope, .....I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?

So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winning and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of profiling.

I could make you a list three times long with terrorist attacks by non Muslim men
 

GottaHurt

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vandree said:
I could make you a list three times long with terrorist attacks by non Muslim men
Could've, would've, should've......
 
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