Professor awarded damages after being sanctioned for not using the "correct" pronouns. Bravo!!!

[The Old Soul]

Boo hoo.

How far will you go in tolerating this crap? When someone demands you address them as "God" or "Master"?

I know a guy who demands I address him as "Jesus." It's not intolerable crap...

It's sad that right wingers just refuse to see the harm this sort of thing causes.

Very true, and the sadder part is these right wingers (the name of choice) not only refuse to see the harm they cause, many want to actually harm LGBT people. I've read many posts where LGBTophobes want to meet a trans or gay in a dark alley to teach them how vile a pervert they are, and many news stories where they've actually done it.

 

[GummyVitamins]

False. After being misgendered, the student politely asked for the professor to use her preferred pronouns in the future. Using those pronouns would be the most respectful way.

He agreed to never misgender her or call her by an unwanted pronoun. He agreed to call by her name. What are you complaining about? You can't force someone to use a pronoun. What kind of authoritarian nonsense is this?

 

[Argent]

False. After being misgendered, the student politely asked for the professor to use her preferred pronouns in the future. Using those pronouns would be the most respectful way.

You are ignoring the primary driver. The professor claimed religious belief as the reason for not using the requested pronoun. The university is legally compelled to find an accommodation. The professor used an accommodation to address an immediate issue. The professor could have adjourned the class or asked the student to leave and then implemented some sort of accommodation request that would have inconvenienced everyone and likely resulted in implementation of the professor's use of the student's name. Another outcome may have included reassigning the student to a different class. There is an existing law governing religious accommodation. There is not yet a law governing use of pronouns.

"Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices unless the accommodation would impose an undue hardship (more than a minimal burden on operation of the business). A religious practice may be sincerely held by an individual even if newly adopted, not consistently observed, or different from the commonly followed tenets of the individual's religion."

What You Should Know: Workplace Religious Accommodation

Notice Concerning the Undue Hardship Standard in Title VII Religious Accommodation Cases.This document was issued prior to the Supreme Court’s decision in Groff v. DeJoy, 143 S. Ct. 2279 (2023).

www.eeoc.gov

 

[Craig234]

BOO HOO.

No one who has to deal with a large group of people every day should have to play "Guess What Gender I Am Today" with all of them.

If a person is so fracking fragile that THEY consider being "misgendered" as an insult, then maybe that person should consider regular visits to a damn shrink.

So, you promote ignorance, AND rudeness, AND abuse of power, AND bigotry, AND dishonesty. No one has to 'play' anything. A professor has to not deny people's transgender status and not impose their wrong view of the student's gender on them. You're the one who needs a BOO HOO whining about people required to follow some basic science and manners. How much of your people's politics boils down to being mad you can't yell the N word? 90%?

 

[Argent]

If a person is so fracking fragile that THEY consider being "misgendered" as an insult, then maybe that person should consider regular visits to a damn shrink.

Good on you for not being insulted if someone calls you gay or miss or madam. Wish everyone was as enlightened as you.

 

[VanceMack]

After the recent "woman gets 2 women pregnant in prison" ridiculousness, you would think the idiot left would just finally admit how stupid they are about gender and pronouns.

But they wont.

 

[Craig234]

You are ignoring the primary driver. The professor claimed religious belief as the reason for not using the requested pronoun. The university is legally compelled to find an accommodation. The professor used an accommodation to address an immediate issue. The professor could have adjourned the class or asked the student to leave and then implemented some sort of accommodation request that would have inconvenienced everyone and likely resulted in implementation of the professor's use of the student's name. Another outcome may have included reassigning the student to a different class. There is an existing law governing religious accommodation. There is not yet a law governing use of pronouns.

"Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices unless the accommodation would impose an undue hardship (more than a minimal burden on operation of the business). A religious practice may be sincerely held by an individual even if newly adopted, not consistently observed, or different from the commonly followed tenets of the individual's religion."

What You Should Know: Workplace Religious Accommodation

Notice Concerning the Undue Hardship Standard in Title VII Religious Accommodation Cases.This document was issued prior to the Supreme Court’s decision in Groff v. DeJoy, 143 S. Ct. 2279 (2023).

www.eeoc.gov

Or call the student by their first name. Pronouns are not required and not using one is an easy 'accommodation'.

That's if such an 'accommodation' is even needed for the professor. Is 'I need to have sex with students' acceptable as a religious position? I suspect they'd be hard pressed to find an accepted religion dictating pronouns to use. This demand might raise questions about the competency and character of the professor.

 

[Argent]

Or call the student by their first name. Pronouns are not required and not using one is an easy 'accommodation'.

That is what I've advocated throughout this discussion. It wouldn't have risen to an accommodation issue had the student accepted the compromise and had the university not botched its response to the situation. I understand the student's interest in wanting to be acknowledged and validated via a pronoun. I think the student's request should have been respected and the prof should have used the student's preferred pronoun.

That's if such an 'accommodation' is even needed for the professor. Is 'I need to have sex with students' acceptable as a religious position? I suspect they'd be hard pressed to find an accepted religion dictating pronouns to use. This demand might raise questions about the competency and character of the professor.

It's not merely about the pronoun; it's about what the pronoun represents. There are religions that consider anything outside of binary cis gender to be a sin. That's why bakers don't have to bake wedding cakes for LGBTQ's and why so many other professions can deny services to them. I'll state it again -- I think this is religion run amok. I'm opposed to this type of freedom of religion. I'm opposed to religion. I'm a retired HR professional who dealt with similar issues and following the law in these situations is (self-censored so I don't violate any forum rules).

 

[Phys251]

Life's too damn short to worry about what some sad sack wants to be called.

Boo hoo.

How far will you go in tolerating this crap? When someone demands you address them as "God" or "Master"?

BOO HOO.

No one who has to deal with a large group of people every day should have to play "Guess What Gender I Am Today" with all of them.

If a person is so fracking fragile that THEY consider being "misgendered" as an insult, then maybe that person should consider regular visits to a damn shrink.

Because the student is another invented victim in an already-crowded victimized society.

You seem very upset.

 

[Phys251]

I know a guy who demands I address him as "Jesus." It's not intolerable crap...

Very true, and the sadder part is these right wingers (the name of choice) not only refuse to see the harm they cause, many want to actually harm LGBT people.

Bingo.

Transphobes deliberately misgender trans people not just in spite of the fact that it hurts them, but because it hurts them. They have a pathological need to punch down.

I've read many posts where LGBTophobes want to meet a trans or gay in a dark alley to teach them how vile a pervert they are, and many news stories where they've actually done it.

And it happens. And the transphobes deliberately look the other way.

 

[Lovebug]

From the article this question could be asked.
Who “effectively created a hostile environment”?
You all know my personal conviction that
a I think of people as the gender of their birth
b I also argue mutual respect
This issue should have been discussed among parties involved, in a calm sit down. The fact that the young man threatened to have the teacher fired wasn't a good start, neither was his refusal to compromise. Talk it out, don't threaten. That, thus far, reads like I am defending the professor. Right?
Here is another way of looking at this. Husband and I, t/o our career in healthcare, dealt with people compassionately and respectfully, no exceptions, regardless of our personal beliefs. Iow, be professional and leave your personal feelings at home.

 

[vanceen]

You dodged my point, so I'll repeat it. Lets pretend that a University Professor would like to refer to some of his students as "useless ****ing morons" to their faces and in public. Do you agree that HR might choose to "compel" a more respectful kind of speech while that professor is performing his job? Do you think HR is abusing authority by demanding a certain amount of professionalism from staff?

There is a critical difference between insisting on ordinary courtesy and compelling speech.

Not calling students insulting names is ordinary courtesy, and an organization is within its rights to insist on it. However, it is not within its rights in insisting that a professor say "Student 'X' is a genius" if the professor thinks that's untrue.

The former is professional courtesy. The latter is compelled speech.

 

[Deuce]

At the heart of everything is an issue of does one person’s rights trump those of another person.

No, the heart of this issue is common human decency and respect, and right wingers simply don't have it.

 

[Elmo]

There is a critical difference between insisting on ordinary courtesy and compelling speech.

Not calling students insulting names is ordinary courtesy, and an organization is within its rights to insist on it. However, it is not within its rights in insisting that a professor say "Student 'X' is a genius" if the professor thinks that's untrue.

The former is professional courtesy. The latter is compelled speech.

Using preferred pronouns IS ordinary courtesy. It is just that simple. Deliberately calling someone by the wrong pronoun is an insult in EXACTLY the same way that calling someone a moron is an insult. The severity of the insult is going to vary from person to person, but that is a difference in degree rather than kind. In a professional setting, petty insults of all kinds are generally frowned upon.

A professor might think a trans woman is a man, or he might think fat people are lazy, or he might think women make terrible engineers, or any number of other horrible things. It doesn't matter what the Professor sincerely believes, he has a duty to conduct himself in a professional manner while doing his job. If that means speaking some trivial niceties he doesn't wholeheartedly believe, tough shit. That's a skill everyone should have mastered by the age of 10.

 

[The Mark]

It's sad that right wingers just refuse to see the harm this sort of thing causes.

If it doesn't affect them personally it doesn't matter.

 

[Elmo]

You are ignoring the primary driver. The professor claimed religious belief as the reason for not using the requested pronoun. The university is legally compelled to find an accommodation. The professor used an accommodation to address an immediate issue. The professor could have adjourned the class or asked the student to leave and then implemented some sort of accommodation request that would have inconvenienced everyone and likely resulted in implementation of the professor's use of the student's name. Another outcome may have included reassigning the student to a different class. There is an existing law governing religious accommodation. There is not yet a law governing use of pronouns.

"Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices unless the accommodation would impose an undue hardship (more than a minimal burden on operation of the business). A religious practice may be sincerely held by an individual even if newly adopted, not consistently observed, or different from the commonly followed tenets of the individual's religion."

What You Should Know: Workplace Religious Accommodation

Notice Concerning the Undue Hardship Standard in Title VII Religious Accommodation Cases.This document was issued prior to the Supreme Court’s decision in Groff v. DeJoy, 143 S. Ct. 2279 (2023).

www.eeoc.gov

I don't buy the religion excuse. Somehow I doubt there are any bible verses condemning trans people. Some religion just hate on gay people, and then lump trans people into the same bucket for purely political reasons. I think he's just hiding his politics behind his religion.

But apparently the court disagrees with me, and that is that.

 

[Chillfolks]

No, the heart of this issue is common human decency and respect, and right wingers simply don't have it.

You are simply wrong and misguided in that thought.

 

[Elmo]

He agreed to never misgender her or call her by an unwanted pronoun. He agreed to call by her name. What are you complaining about? You can't force someone to use a pronoun. What kind of authoritarian nonsense is this?

I think I've been pretty clear in my posts in this thread. Feel free to re-read. Have a nice day.

 

[VanceMack]

The leftists have pushed for this prog lunacy....



****ing retards and lunatics...thats what the leftists have created. That is their legacy.

 

[GummyVitamins]

I think I've been pretty clear in my posts in this thread. Feel free to re-read. Have a nice day.

Yes, you want to force people to call someone a pronoun instead of their first name. That's authoritarian and strange.

 

[Argent]

Yes, you want to force people to call someone a pronoun instead of their first name. That's authoritarian and strange.

You're suggesting that calling someone by their legal name is wrong? I might have to clutch my pearls and retire to the fainting couch (or sofa depending on where one lives because we can't require someone to faint on a sofa if they think it's a couch and vice versa especially those who think sofas or couches aren't even furniture).

 

[GummyVitamins]

You're suggesting that calling someone by their legal name is wrong? I might have to clutch my pearls and retire to the fainting couch (or sofa depending on where one lives because we can't require someone to faint on a sofa if they think it's a couch and vice versa especially those who think sofas or couches aren't even furniture).

Not even her legal name. The professor said they'd call her whatever name she wanted. I don't understand the level of control people think they should have over others. It's strange.

 

[Argent]

It's strange.

People are strange, and now I can't get the darn song out of my head, ear worm alert.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Am I crazy (and more ignorant than usual), or are both sides misunderstanding this ruling?

 

[Metric Mouse]

Bingo.

Transphobes deliberately misgender trans people not just in spite of the fact that it hurts them, but because it hurts them. They have a pathological need to punch down.



And it happens. And the transphobes deliberately look the other way.

Thankfully, the professor in this instance never intentionally misgendered their student.