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Private payrolls declined in September by 32,000 in key ADP report coming amid shutdown data blackout

You need to realize you are dealing with a MAGA Fanboy. If Gas was $5 a gallon he would stubbornly say that was a fair price for the American Oil Companies to charge to protect American Jobs. It doesn't have anything to do with reality. It's always the same. The Left is awful. The Right is awesome, and anyone who says otherwise, even with statistics or facts, is a liar.

The weird thing is nothing about MAGA has anything to do with “The Right”. A least not the classic conservatism I grew up with up with. Spending like drunken sailors, corporatism and disrespect of our natural resources aren’t my kind of conservative action.
 
OK, then subsidies for inelastic goods/services (aka needs?) like food, housing and medical care don’t fit your “demand creates its own supply” concept.
Food is overly abundant to the point where the sheer levels of substitutes / availability in the U.S. make it quite elastic. In Gaza, food is perfectly inelastic. Food subsidies undoubtedly fuel greater production / consumption.

Housing and Medical markets are simply not competitive, and therefore a substantial amount of market failure will persist. Private builders don't make as much money constructing lower income housing units. Furthermore, we have reached the point where companies cannot overproduce without cannibalizing their bottom lines in the future, and so another instance of market failure has emerged as builders seek margins over total profit.
 
Hmm… I thought you supported employers paying a “living wage”.
I do.
I'm not MAGA who believe that tariffs and paying people more money to pick vegetables will lower prices.
MAGA are easily hoodwinked.
 
Food is overly abundant to the point where the sheer levels of substitutes / availability in the U.S. make it quite elastic. In Gaza, food is perfectly inelastic. Food subsidies undoubtedly fuel greater production / consumption.

Housing and Medical markets are simply not competitive, and therefore a substantial amount of market failure will persist. Private builders don't make as much money constructing lower income housing units. Furthermore, we have reached the point where companies cannot overproduce without cannibalizing their bottom lines in the future, and so another instance of market failure has emerged as builders seek margins over total profit.

Grocery store profit margins are very low (compared to home builders or medical care providers) despite high demand. I agree this is likely due to more competition.
 
I do.
I'm not MAGA who believe that tariffs and paying people more money to pick vegetables will lower prices.
MAGA are easily hoodwinked.

You seemed fine with farm workers’ pay being low for decades, since it keeps your grocery prices down.
 
I am generally against foreign aid. But Argentina is in trouble due to left wing policies and if Milei loses, Argentina, now an ally of ours will sink back into the Marxist ideology of people like Harris, Hakeem, AOC and sink into ruin. What is happening there proves that once humans get free stuff, they don't want to let go. That free stuff is what caused the problems they now have, but like Democrats here, the tribal chieftains on the other side, don't want the sheep to know that. Proof of which is they are denying that what they want is free health care for all and that means Cadillac care for illegals, green card holders and those here on that stupid TPS program (over a million). The mantra is that the "rich" can pay more but they won't say the price tag is a trillion and if you took all of the money from the rick it wouldn't touch what the Dems want.

The ACA was set to expire but once the Dems got used to that gravy train that brought in more illegals to their states, they don't want to let go. When you feed a lion, he won't hunt.

Every piper needs to be paid eventually. Argentinians paid for decades of socialist Peronism with serial sovereign debt defaults, austerity, hyperinflation, and a reduction in Argentinian living standards to the point of penury. You know things are bad when working-class peasants elect a capitalist economist from the libertarian Austrian school to be their president.

So what does this have to do with us? Well, when we compare what a typical American family earned fifty years ago to what one earns today, it’s clear that incomes have not kept pace with the cost of living. Working-class Americans, like Argentinians before them, are getting poorer thanks to government policies that favor consumption, spending, and debt over capital savings and investment. At least Trump is attempting to address this imbalance with his tariff, tax, and regulatory policies. But some day soon we’ll need to face the elephant in the room: the roughy $68 trillion in unfunded Social Security and Medicare liabilities. Few members of either party seem willing to addrsss it, because it’s a loser as a political issue. But their trust funds are set to run dry in less than a decade, so we’ll have our crisis moment, too. I’d rather hand these blue states that depend on these federal subsidies to fund their budgets at least some of their share now instead of later.
 
Since Trump's government won't be reporting the jobs numbers this Friday unless the shutdown ends, we must rely on private sector for data. ADP really hasn't been that far off, and they can still provide trends if nothing else.

As if any needed to guess, the economy is not doing so well. If idiots didn't want a troll president who is economically illiterate, we'd probably be OK right now, but alas, must own the libz.

Not surprised. My husband, who normally has 0 problems finding IT contract work and normally makes upwards of $150K per year, has not gotten a contract in 6 months. We are struggling financially for sure. Really sucks right now.
 
I like how Trump's trade war is really hurting farmers (almost all of which voted for Trump) because they don't have a market for the soybeans and rice, so the solution the Republicans and the Trump Admin is pushing is to bail them out with money from the tariffs (the cause of their problem). Thus, the American people get to pay a sales tax on everything imported, which gets funneled into a bailout for farmers - that voted for the very policies that are hurting them...

If this shit is ever going to end, people need to get what they voted for and feel the pain from it.
It just sucks the rest of us who didn't vote for it, are feeling the pain, too.
 
Pretty much the whole Biden term so.....
You guys are too funny. A recession is right around the corner. How many times have we heard that? Well, since the definition of a recession mostly revolves around two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth, and we haven't even had one month yet, then your best case scenario is still a long way away.
 
If they took the jobs away from Americans then Americans should be filling those jobs now. But according to the numbers, they aren’t.
So you keep changing your argument to things like AI.
Again, which jobs that AI is now taking were being down by those who were deported?
Roofing?
Busboys?
Picking crops?
would you get off this stupid "ai" kick? As I recall, I didn't say ai took roofing or busboy jobs, did I?
 
"Look, the Biden yeas are over of getting cheap labor from Haiti, Venezuela, Honduras, Mexico."

Thus you think cheap labor started under Biden.
It EXPLODED under Biden. Can you tell me what was the date that Schumer said "We need more immigrants (wouldn't dare use the right term of ILLEGAL immigrants) because white America is not replenishing the population and Mexicans have more babies.", or very similar words to that effect?
 
Farmers have been using cheap labor for decades. Only way to keep food prices low.
And when MAGA start filling those jobs and demand $30/hr plus full benefits, the prices at the grocery stores will increase significantly.
And MAGA will blame Biden
Now we get the Ole "Who will pick our crops BS.

Mexicans work in ALL the trades now.
 
Not surprised. My husband, who normally has 0 problems finding IT contract work and normally makes upwards of $150K per year, has not gotten a contract in 6 months. We are struggling financially for sure. Really sucks right now.
That can't be right! I've been told in this thread that all of the job losses are for illegal immigrants.
 
Nonsense. CNN just reported it. Trump’s own administration is the source of the figure.
CNN is the source of lying about the figures. I wouldn't read CNN if it was the only thing left to read in the entire world.
 
Every piper needs to be paid eventually. Argentinians paid for decades of socialist Peronism with serial sovereign debt defaults, austerity, hyperinflation, and a reduction in Argentinian living standards to the point of penury. You know things are bad when working-class peasants elect a capitalist economist from the libertarian Austrian school to be their president.

So what does this have to do with us? Well, when we compare what a typical American family earned fifty years ago to what one earns today, it’s clear that incomes have not kept pace with the cost of living. Working-class Americans, like Argentinians before them, are getting poorer thanks to government policies that favor consumption, spending, and debt over capital savings and investment. At least Trump is attempting to address this imbalance with his tariff, tax, and regulatory policies. But some day soon we’ll need to face the elephant in the room: the roughy $68 trillion in unfunded Social Security and Medicare liabilities. Few members of either party seem willing to addrsss it, because it’s a loser as a political issue. But their trust funds are set to run dry in less than a decade, so we’ll have our crisis moment, too. I’d rather hand these blue states that depend on these federal subsidies to fund their budgets at least some of their share now instead of later.
I agree. Americans are living much longer today by fr and that means if it isn't changed to a retirement at 70 it will go broke. Any mention of that though gets screams from the left that "Trump will take away your social security." proving once again, if any proof is needed, that it is nearly impossible to change the benefits that humans get. This is what the argument over health care is all about. They lied that the ACA would expire at a certain date to get it passed and now that we see it is a disaster and costs trillions, the Dems are kicking and screaming that "Trump is taking away your health care."
 
Interest on the national debt now exceeds $1 trillion per year. There aren’t enough rich people in this country to pay for our $37 trillion national debt. The only way to pay for it will be to debase the dollar. You think working-class people are screaming about the cost of living now? Just wait. Gold, a hard asset and historic measure of value of a currency, is hitting records and now pushing almost $4,000 per ounce. Its price has doubled in two years. Central banks are dumping our debt and buying it. The last major credit rating agency to give the U.S. a AAA rating removed it. These are all warnings that we need to get our fiscal house in order.
I’ve been reading that for decades.

Anyone that is serious about the debt, then they should be talking about not cutting taxes, or they really don’t know what you’re talking about. Republicans moan about debt then slash taxes that pay the debt.

Even people like me, who are usually relaxed about debt, would really like to see a serious effort to slow the rate at which debt is rising. And under current conditions we could rein in the growth in debt without doing major economic damage if politicians — especially Republicans — were willing to act responsibly.

To the extent that we do worry about the level of debt, we should always be clear that what matters is the level relative to the government’s tax base, which in modern nations is basically the whole economy. That is, to the extent that the level of the debt matters, what really matters is debt as a percentage of GDP.

Since GDP normally grows over time, this in turn implies that governments never have to pay off their debts; at most they need to keep their borrowing low enough that debt grows more slowly than GDP. That is, governments need to maintain a sustainable debt path. How did America pay off its debts from World War II? It didn’t.

Debt in dollars at the end of the Eisenhower administration was larger than it had been in 1946. However, debt as a percentage of GDP, fell steadily thanks to a combination of real growth and moderate inflation.

So we never paid off our WWII debt. We did, however, run small enough budget deficits that debt came way down as a percentage of GDP, and remained at non-alarming levels up through 2007.

Since then, however, we’ve run big deficits and driven the debt/GDP ratio back to a level typically associated with the aftermath of war. Why? Because we had a financial crisis in 2007 and a pandemic in 2020. Both required large influxes of government spending. Now would be a good time, with low unemployment, to raise taxes.

The G.O.P. now controls all three branches of government, and is dead set against any tax increases other than tariffs, which won’t yield much revenue. In fact, Republicans are determined to give wealthy Americans another big tax cut, which will supposedly be offset with spending cuts — and no, laying off critical federal workers, including the people at the IRS responsible for going after tax cheats, won’t do the trick.

Remember, the federal government is basically an insurance company with an army: defense, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid account for the bulk of noninterest spending. Everyone considers cuts to Social Security and Medicare politically off-limits, so Republicans are proposing savage cuts to Medicaid. They’re about to find out that making deep cuts to a program that insures 70 million Americans isn’t that easy, either.

So where we are now is that for the first time since 2007 the economic situation really would allow us to make a serious effort to reduce deficits and maybe even the ratio of debt to GDP. But given the political situation, that’s a fantasy.
 
I agree. Americans are living much longer today by fr and that means if it isn't changed to a retirement at 70 it will go broke. Any mention of that though gets screams from the left that "Trump will take away your social security." proving once again, if any proof is needed, that it is nearly impossible to change the benefits that humans get. This is what the argument over health care is all about. They lied that the ACA would expire at a certain date to get it passed and now that we see it is a disaster and costs trillions, the Dems are kicking and screaming that "Trump is taking away your health care."
Higher income Americans are living longer. Everyone else is not. So, you want to raise the retirement age of FedEx drivers because lawyers are living longer.
 
Higher income Americans are living longer. Everyone else is not. So, you want to raise the retirement age of FedEx drivers because lawyers are living longer.
Maybe we should do away with publik skools so people won't need to be a FedEx driver, and do away with welfare which promotes bad lifestyles.
 
MAGA continuing to win more and more.
My wife's old employer was a huge medical device company that got crushed by the tariffs and have had to lay off a bunch of people she worked with prior because of it.
So not only will a bunch of people not have jobs all the IVs, solutions, etc will now be even more expensive for everyone around the country as they were one of the biggest in the country.
 
would you get off this stupid "ai" kick? As I recall, I didn't say ai took roofing or busboy jobs, did I?
That was one of the reasons you claim that Americans aren’t taking the jobs that those who were deported did.
I asked you which jobs AI is doing that those people had been doing.
You refused to answer.
 
Fake? How so? You own a restaurant, car wash, machine shop, auto plant or Congress and want to staff it with uneducated dummies who work for peanuts. Millions of those people are deported. They now have one of two choices. Buckle up and do with fewer people, possibly with AI, or hire a citizen who will get benefits, health care and the market rate salary.

What is the result of the above?

Look, the Biden yeas are over of getting cheap labor from Haiti, Venezuela, Honduras, Mexico. We all have to get used to AMERICANS taking the jobs that Mexicans used to do. Soon enough, teachers will have to be laid off, welfare workers, hospital; employees, judges, probation officers etc. I know they'll stick around because of tenure, but this is a new world now.
“Millions of those people are deported.”

Show proof.
 
I’ve been reading that for decades.

Anyone that is serious about the debt, then they should be talking about not cutting taxes, or they really don’t know what you’re talking about. Republicans moan about debt then slash taxes that pay the debt.

Even people like me, who are usually relaxed about debt, would really like to see a serious effort to slow the rate at which debt is rising. And under current conditions we could rein in the growth in debt without doing major economic damage if politicians — especially Republicans — were willing to act responsibly.

To the extent that we do worry about the level of debt, we should always be clear that what matters is the level relative to the government’s tax base, which in modern nations is basically the whole economy. That is, to the extent that the level of the debt matters, what really matters is debt as a percentage of GDP.

Since GDP normally grows over time, this in turn implies that governments never have to pay off their debts; at most they need to keep their borrowing low enough that debt grows more slowly than GDP. That is, governments need to maintain a sustainable debt path. How did America pay off its debts from World War II? It didn’t.

Debt in dollars at the end of the Eisenhower administration was larger than it had been in 1946. However, debt as a percentage of GDP, fell steadily thanks to a combination of real growth and moderate inflation.

So we never paid off our WWII debt. We did, however, run small enough budget deficits that debt came way down as a percentage of GDP, and remained at non-alarming levels up through 2007.

Since then, however, we’ve run big deficits and driven the debt/GDP ratio back to a level typically associated with the aftermath of war. Why? Because we had a financial crisis in 2007 and a pandemic in 2020. Both required large influxes of government spending. Now would be a good time, with low unemployment, to raise taxes.

The G.O.P. now controls all three branches of government, and is dead set against any tax increases other than tariffs, which won’t yield much revenue. In fact, Republicans are determined to give wealthy Americans another big tax cut, which will supposedly be offset with spending cuts — and no, laying off critical federal workers, including the people at the IRS responsible for going after tax cheats, won’t do the trick.

Remember, the federal government is basically an insurance company with an army: defense, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid account for the bulk of noninterest spending. Everyone considers cuts to Social Security and Medicare politically off-limits, so Republicans are proposing savage cuts to Medicaid. They’re about to find out that making deep cuts to a program that insures 70 million Americans isn’t that easy, either.

So where we are now is that for the first time since 2007 the economic situation really would allow us to make a serious effort to reduce deficits and maybe even the ratio of debt to GDP. But given the political situation, that’s a fantasy.
And just this week Trump said the tariff money will be used to subsidize the farmers.
Because they have been destroyed by his economic policies, otherwise known as tariffs.
So there will be no gain at all from the tariffs collected from American importers.
 
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