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Post Conception Opt-Out? Good Idea or Bad?

Should women be allowed to hold men hostage to their choice or should a man be able to legally opt o

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roguenuke said:
Fair is relative, subjective. You think it can be made fairer. I and many others disagree.
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Seems to be a fair amount of support on this thread for my position

You said I would get little support
 
trouble13 said:
I can understand where you are coming from but you don't hold women to that same standard. That disparity is the problem.
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I don't hold women to that standard because they are 'forced' to pay for that mistake already. If you were concerned about disparity you would be calling for greater consequences for males that father children. The women's consequences can lead to her death (almost 1 in every 5,000 pregnancies result in the death of the mother in the US)
 
vegas giants said:
Seems to be a fair amount of support on this thread for my position

You said I would get little support
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There is no nearly as much support as you seem to think. There are less than a dozen people really participating in this thread, and about half or more do not support you.
 
AGENT J said:
since men cant get pregnant, no matter how many times your make the claim its factually not true and will be the one fact that always makes your claims complete fail and look like the nonsense they are

again banning abortion would not making woman and men equal and its pure vile dishonesty to claim it would.
it would treat women as lessers . . nothing more than human incubators and 2nd class citizens

again no thanks, theres a reason the vast majority of first world countries with governments based on rights and freedoms have laws that lean prochoice and that reason is because women have equal, human, civil and legal rights
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Your words are no less false now than they were the first time you said them.

Men deserve the same right to choose not be fathers as we give women not to be mothers
 
trouble13 said:
I voted other. It's not really a question of if it's bad or good. It's a question of whether or not men deserve to be granted rights that are equal to women's.
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What right doesnt a man have that a woman does? You are imagining things (like the OP) if you think there are any reproductive or other rights involved here.

The only right women have is to an abortion...and guess what? Now "legal men" have that right too. So it's equal.

There are no other rights involved. Just choices. And men have them too...if they want to risk 18 years of child support or more hopefully, being a father...then they MAKE that choice before they have sex.

Are you claiming men arent capable of making such decisions in their own best interests? I give men more credit than that.

So then what you are claiming is that men should still be entitled to sex without consequences. Right? Well, women are not and never have been so guess what? That's equal now too.
 
roguenuke said:
There is no nearly as much support as you seem to think. There are less than a dozen people really participating in this thread, and about half or more do not support you.
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Shall we count off? Lol
 
roguenuke said:
The choice he made was having sex. That can lead to him being responsible for a kid. Her choice regarding the pregnancy is separate from that because it is based on the pregnancy affecting her health, her body, not on whether or not she no longer has to care for a kid after the pregnancy. It doesn't matter if that affect to her health, body, finances, job, whatever is minimal or barely significant (most aren't), but that biology makes things different in why there. His choice is to not have sex or make sure he can't get her pregnant if he does. That's his options. It is as fair as it can get.
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But she also gets to just not want to have a kid and the responsibilities that go with it.
 
Lursa said:
What right doesnt a man have that a woman does? You are imagining things (like the OP) if you think there are any reproductive or other rights involved here.

The only right women have is to an abortion...and guess what? Now "legal men" have that right too. So it's equal.

There are no other rights involved. Just choices. And men have them too...if they want to risk 18 years of child support or more hopefully, being a father...then they MAKE that choice before they have sex.

Are you claiming men arent capable of making such decisions in their own best interests? I give men more credit than that.

So then what you are claiming is that men should still be entitled to sex without consequences. Right? Well, women are not and never have been so guess what? That's equal now too.
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Men have never had sex without consequences
 
Irredentist said:
The entire premise of this argument is stupid. If a child is born, then it has the right to financial support from both of its parents. You want an "opt-out" for men? Too bad, you don't get to abandon your child, and that goes equally for men and women.
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Post 4 quotes and links to the child's rights...and the OP and a couple of others wont even address it. They pretend it doesnt exist because then their desire for men's "opt-out" fails.

They want to blame women...and the laws are clearly based on the child's rights. And women are held equally accountable for the child.
 
mrjurrs said:
I don't hold women to that standard because they are 'forced' to pay for that mistake already. If you were concerned about disparity you would be calling for greater consequences for males that father children. The women's consequences can lead to her death (almost 1 in every 5,000 pregnancies result in the death of the mother in the US)
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Wow, can this really be true? In Sweden, maternal mortality in 2014 was about 4 per 100,000 births
 
roguenuke said:
Actually, safe haven laws allow legal abandonment of children within a certain timeframe of birth. And you can also legally give up all rights to your child as well.
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There's at least one state that allows it for any minor. One state had a 17 yr old turned over.
 
Irredentist said:
The question should be, does a child deserve the right to financial support from both of their parents? The answer is yes.
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Yup. That's actually the law. Post 4.
 
Lursa said:
Post 4 quotes and links to the child's rights...and the OP and a couple of others wont even address it. They pretend it doesnt exist because then their desire for men's "opt-out" fails.

They want to blame women...and the laws are clearly based on the child's rights. And women are held equally accountable for the child.
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You want to grant rights to a child that does not exist


Pro lifers. Lol
 
What if...? said:
But she also gets to just not want to have a kid and the responsibilities that go with it.
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No. She still had a responsibility if a pregnancy occurred. And she has to still provide half (at least) of the financial support alone for that kid (not counting government assistance). In many cases, especially with a man who would have rather have opted out, she is going to have to also provide the vast majority of other than financial support as well, at least until/unless she finds someone else to help her.
 
Lursa said:
And the man knows this before he decides to have sex with her, right?

What is the reason he doesnt then act in his own best interests? If he chooses the risk, then why shouldnt he be held accountable for it?



Correct but he does have the option of taking the child. And if he does, then he can get child support from her. Men identified on birth certificates must be informed before a child is put up for adoption and in at least some states, before using Safe Haven laws (I dont know if it's all, I hope so)



It's not fair to the taxpayers. Do you have another solution that does not add to the taxpayer burden, already paying for ~400,000 kids in foster care? For hundreds of thousands receiving public assistance?

Let's not be hypocritical here...if it's not fair to the man, how could it possibly be fair to put it on the taxpayers? We didnt knowingly risk creating a kid. And as well all know...life isnt fair. That's not news.



He is welcome to request joint custody...I think that's great. That means less $$ and more involvement with the child. And the family courts are favoring father's rights much much more, finally. The laws are equal but arent always applied equally...but OTOH, most judges are still men, so? Who's making the calls here?
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You still reject the option women enjoy. The right to wait til a better time in their lives when they can provide for the child better. Or not have a child at all.

Why doesn’t she make sure she can’t get pregnant? Why is the onus ALL on the man? Why does she get to pass on the whole thing but he does not?
 
roguenuke said:
No. She still had a responsibility if a pregnancy occurred. And she has to still provide half (at least) of the financial support alone for that kid (not counting government assistance). In many cases, especially with a man who would have rather have opted out, she is going to have to also provide the vast majority of other than financial support as well, at least until/unless she finds someone else to help her.
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She knew this before she had sex and agreed to it
 
roguenuke said:
No. The rights come at birth, since that's when they would start tallying child support. Child support begins after birth.
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If a woman says she does not want a chikd in writing and then changes her mind that's on her
 
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