Post Conception Opt-Out? Good Idea or Bad?

[What if...?]

I see lots of support here


You dont have to like it

It’s a set of arguments I e never understood.

I’ve seen lots of kids wrecked by parents who didn’t want them. Lots of suffering. Men trapped in poverty by women who live off of child support and welfare. And one who got trapped outright by a woman who told him she couldn’t get pregnant but was really after the meal ticket.

And more than one man whose heart was broken by his child being aborted against his wishes. No different than a man forcing a woman to have an abortion would break hers.

It’s a complicated issue, and the financial burden on society is the only one that resonates at all.

 

[trouble13]

He can simply disappear. There is no legal requirement for him to stick around, be able to be easily found.

The law tracks those people down and threatens them with jail if they don't pay mommy support.

There is a legal consequence attached to what you are suggesting.

 

[BirdinHand]

this retarded flase narrative failed the first time you posted and it looks even more stupid now LMAO

Looks just fine from where I’m sitting.

A bunch of guys are bitching about the topic of child support. And how it’s “not fair”

Shocking.


Meanwhile, in reality we have how many single mothers in this country? How many deadbeat losers that are behind on child support? How many kids going without?

Yeah…like I said…cry me a river.

 

[mrjurrs]

Wow, can this really be true? In Sweden, maternal mortality in 2014 was about 4 per 100,000 births

And America's is about 17.4 per 100,000.

Thank you employer-based healthcare coverage. #sad

 

[vegas giants]

Because she has more consequences from pregnancy than he does. Pregnancy is still a consequence to her, even if she eventually gets an abortion, which is just another outcome.

Men who suffer the "loss" of pregnancy are not the ones we are discussing here though. Those men would not be signing contracts to take no responsibility.

The issue here is men that want to opt out of a responsibility for a child. They are upset because women have a larger say in the one part of the process that affects them completely unequally compared to men, the pregnancy.

And you believe women can not decide for themselves if they should sign a contract or not

 

[Bodi]

The entire premise of this argument is stupid. If a child is born, then it has the right to financial support from both of its parents. You want an "opt-out" for men? Too bad, you don't get to abandon your child, and that goes equally for men and women.

Straw Man. There is no child in my argument.

 

[roguenuke]

I'm not arguing that men and women biology is the same. That's your strawman.

I am arguing that men and women should both be legally free to opt out of the responsibility of parenthood

The basis for the legal reasoning of why women get that "opt out" that men don't is biology. You can't separate that fact. It isn't because someone just spun some random legal wheel and said "let's give women an extra say in parenting right here". All such laws are based on biology. The laws concerning child support are based on financially supporting the child, not who gets what opt outs, when or why.

 

[AGENT J]

I'm not arguing that men and women biology is the same. That's your strawman.

yes you are if you are equating banning abortion to making it equal
you said you want abortion banned to make it equal, it factually doesnt
your inability to see tha reality is the whole reason you false claim is so monumentally stupid and why they have been destroyed every time
since ONLY ONE gets pregnant thats not equal

read that as many times as it takes to sink in

or keep making your false claim for it for it to be mocked and destroyed every single time e
the best part is, either way facts win and your cliams have already been proven wrong

 

[mrjurrs]

The law tracks those people down and threatens them with jail if they don't pay mommy support

All rainbows and unicorns in your world?

 

[roguenuke]

And you believe women can not decide for themselves if they should sign a contract or not

I believe that those that would be convinced to sign it would be prey for men hunting for vulnerable women, exploiting their loneliness, extorting a signature for a chance at a relationship. There is no other reason for a woman to sign a contract so unfair to them. There is no obligation for that "rich guy" to provide anything you claimed he would earlier in thread, so why in the hell would anyone but a really stupid or vulnerable woman agree to that?

 

[Bodi]

No. Good Lord, it's not "holding men hostage" it's about being a grownup and facing the consequences of choices.

You know how men avoid this? Legs closed, pants up, sex after marriage, keep the swimmers in a balled up hankie in the trash can till he's ready to be a parent with the woman.

No crying!

You are not addressing my argument. Did you even read it or did you stop at that poll option?

 

[Bodi]

Parents can't just walk away from their child. Especially the father, who has the minor role in the fetal development process.

there is no child. Why do people keep misrepresenting the argument?

 

[vegas giants]

I believe that those that would be convinced to sign it would be prey for men hunting for vulnerable women, exploiting their loneliness, extorting a signature for a chance at a relationship. There is no other reason for a woman to sign a contract so unfair to them. There is no obligation for that "rich guy" to provide anything you claimed he would earlier in thread, so why in the hell would anyone but a really stupid or vulnerable woman agree to that?

Women do that every day with marriage


Have you ever dated a wealthy man?

 

[roguenuke]

Straw Man. There is no child in my argument.

Yes there is, just as much as there is if someone puts away a savings account for a "future child" of say their child. That child may only be hypothetical, but the potential child, once born, would then exist. That child still needs support.

 

[AGENT J]

Looks just fine from where I’m sitting.

LMAO we have no doubts thats what makes it even more funn you trying to equate the two iis what makes it factually inaccurate
hence why your post looks so stupid as usual

A bunch of guys are bitching about the topic of child support. And how it’s “not fair”

false, the topic is about the law in onw regarded being factually unequal
just fine with child support, i paid it willingly and gave MORE than the court-ordered and then later i had full custody and didnt ask for anything . . OOOOPS theres goes your failed strawman LMAO

Meanwhile, in reality we have how many single mothers in this country? How many deadbeat losers that are behind on child support? How many kids going without?

Yeah…like I said…cry me a river.

meaningless to anything said
thanks for proving me right again!

 

[roguenuke]

Women do that every day with marriage


Have you ever dated a wealthy man?

No, they don't do that every day with marriage. Marriage comes with benefits for both men and women.

 

[Bodi]

Sadly your opinion leaves out the possible child. Doesn't he/she have the right to support from both parents? If a father decides to give up his rights what difference does that make? He is still equally responsible for the child isn't he? Procreation is a privilege and it should cost something.

There is no child in my argument.

 

[vegas giants]

No, they don't do that every day with marriage. Marriage comes with benefits for both men and women.

So does dating a wealthy man. Lol

 

[Bodi]

False. Both the man and woman can be held financially accountable for a mistake they both made.

Since it is only the woman whose body is being used and abused by the fetus only she can decide whether to keep it, but both are held financially responsible for the child.

This is no different than a car accident. If you rear-end another person's car, and that person is injured to the point of losing a lot of blood the government cannot force you to donate your own blood to save that person's life. Even if the accident is 100% your fault they cannot force you to do something as simple as donate a pint of blood which is incredibly safe and takes 20 minutes.
However, the government can force you to compensate that person financially for any medical bills or other damages you have caused. The government can hold you financially responsible, but not physically responsible.

You are ignoring the argument and just making a speech.

 

[Bodi]

There won’t be “equality” unless men start giving birth.

Sorry. Oh well. That’s reality. Too bad, so sad.

This is an argument about the post conception choice to be a parent or not. It is not equal.

If you do not understand how simple this is after that I can't help you.

 

[BirdinHand]

This is an argument about the post conception choice to be a parent or not. It is not equal.

If you do not understand how simple this is after that I can't help you.

Men had the choice as to whether or not they wanted to potentially become a parent before they had penis in vagina sex with a woman.

Not sure why that’s so complicated to understand for anyone.

 

[vegas giants]

Men had the choice as to whether or not they wanted to potentially become a parent before they had penis in vagina sex with a woman.

Not sure why that’s so complicated to understand for anyone.

That is the argument to outlaw abortion

 

[Bodi]

Men had the choice as to whether or not they wanted to potentially become a parent before they had penis in vagina sex with a woman.

Not sure why that’s so complicated to understand for anyone.

You are not addressing the argument. Lame and indicative or being incapable of debating accurately or honestly.

 

[Lursa]

I advocate for each person to decide what is in their best interest and be free to exercise that decision. I don't believe men should be able to force women to become mothers or women to be able to force men to be fathers.

And women cant force men to do anything. The state does. So it seems your misogyny is showing. Or lack of knowledge?

If a woman applies for any public assistance, the state/county demands the father's name. And they'll withhold it until she can prove she doesnt know, if she tries to hide it. And then the state goes to the non-custodial parent, whichever it is, to demand they pay their 50% of the responsibility. They are very open to father's getting joint custody, more time with their kids, etc. It's not all about $.

And again, this is all based on 'the child's rights', post 4, not some grudge or greediness from women.

 

[vegas giants]

And women cant force men to do anything. The state does. So it seems your misogyny is showing. Or lack of knowledge?

If a woman applies for any public assistance, the state/county demands the father's name. And they'll withhold it until she can prove she doesnt know, if she tries to hide it. And then the state goes to the non-custodial parent, whichever it is, to demand they pay their 50% of the responsibility. They are very open to father's getting joint custody, more time with their kids, etc. It's not all about $.

And again, this is all based on 'the child's rights', post 4, not some grudge or greediness from women.

It would be based on a lie if they had a contract