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You seem oblivious to a lot of Facts, but I believe you have outdone yourself here, congratulations, sorta...Trump's affect on Covid deaths can't be quantified. Trump expected the expertise of epidemiologists who depended on false models based on false or incomplete world Covid data and, therefore, epidemiologists were more concerned with preserving hospital resources than preserving lives. Count on it, epidemiologists thought hospital resources would expire from this pandemic. Count on it, epidemiologists thought a choice would have to be made between saving lives and saving hospital resources. Trump counted on experts who weren't expert. The experts used methods like social distancing that didn't preserve lives as much as hospital resources.
The high rate of deaths from Covid isn't in spite of social distancing but because of social distancing.
The last time social distancing was used to fight a pandemic was the Spanish Flu in the 1920s, or so. Lots of deaths, then, too. I'd think epidemiologists would understand that using social distancing means lots of death.You seem oblivious to a lot of Facts, but I believe you have outdone yourself here, congratulations, sorta...
I am not going dignify another bloody foreigner until said foreigner offers a poll to show culpability of the Dem scum like Cuomo and others in the Dem states, which, btw, lead in the china virus death rates.A spot poll on Pres. Trump's culpability in COVID-related deaths, to get a feel for where DP sentiment is at.
Some notes:
- Select the answer that most closely matches your view. If no option is suitable, please select "the answer can't presently be quantified" and explain in-thread.
- The option "None - Pres. Trump's Actions Would Have No Predictable, Provable Effect on the Numbers" should be the choice for any members who: i) believe Pres. Trump's actions would have no predictable, provable effect on the numbers in the long term, ii) believe the COVID figures are so highly inflated that any delta in the "real" numbers is necessarily insignificant, or iii) do not consider the deaths of sick or infirm people via COVID as a comorbidity rather than the direct cause of death to be legitimately "COVID-related" due to the underlying age and health issues.
- "Justified" in options 3-8 refers to moral rather than legal justification. "The long term" refers to the period > 10 years in the future, once the full human consequences due to the virus and the lockdown have been mostly/fully manifest. Those wishing to explain their position on justification are invited to do so.
- Answers should reflect only the number of American deaths among the ~200K reported COVID deaths thus far. This means that members who i) believe Pres. Trump's policies have only forward-shifted deaths (moved deaths ahead in time), not necessarily caused more, ii) believe Pres. Trump will be responsible for many more COVID-related deaths in future, and/or ii) believe the number of COVID-related deaths will ultimately be offset (or even negated) by a large number of lives saved due to economic ramifications of Pres. Trump's policies should not take these factors into consideration when selecting a percentage. However, any or all of these factors can of course count for or against justifiability.
I'm not trying to suggest Pres. Trump is or isn't to blame. Just like I'm not trying to suggest Gov. Cuomo is or isn't to blame.I am not going dignify another bloody foreigner until said foreigner offers a poll to show culpability of the Dem scum like Cuomo and others in the Dem states, which, btw, lead in the china virus death rates.
A spot poll on Pres. Trump's culpability in COVID-related deaths, to get a feel for where DP sentiment is at.
Some notes:
- Select the answer that most closely matches your view. If no option is suitable, please select "the answer can't presently be quantified" and explain in-thread.
- The option "None - Pres. Trump's Actions Would Have No Predictable, Provable Effect on the Numbers" should be the choice for any members who: i) believe Pres. Trump's actions would have no predictable, provable effect on the numbers in the long term, ii) believe the COVID figures are so highly inflated that any delta in the "real" numbers is necessarily insignificant, or iii) do not consider the deaths of sick or infirm people via COVID as a comorbidity rather than the direct cause of death to be legitimately "COVID-related" due to the underlying age and health issues.
- "Justified" in options 3-8 refers to moral rather than legal justification. "The long term" refers to the period > 10 years in the future, once the full human consequences due to the virus and the lockdown have been mostly/fully manifest. Those wishing to explain their position on justification are invited to do so.
- Answers should reflect only the number of American deaths among the ~200K reported COVID deaths thus far. This means that members who i) believe Pres. Trump's policies have only forward-shifted deaths (moved deaths ahead in time), not necessarily caused more, ii) believe Pres. Trump will be responsible for many more COVID-related deaths in future, and/or ii) believe the number of COVID-related deaths will ultimately be offset (or even negated) by a large number of lives saved due to economic ramifications of Pres. Trump's policies should not take these factors into consideration when selecting a percentage. However, any or all of these factors can of course count for or against justifiability.
How many times do I have to repeat this?
I have to refer to the facts on the website: https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku
As of 09/23/20 there have only been 14,316 deaths among cases aged 54 and under.
There were 148,737 in ages 65 and older.
The people MOST affected were the elderly in Nursing and Retirement homes, and that was mainly due to STATE GOVERNORS like Cuomo who ordered cases to be housed and treated in "old folks homes."
That's 149,000 out of the 200,000 referred to. Even today, they are still the group at highest risk, yet despite the increased cases we are seeing a slower and lower death rate as we properly segregate the most at-risk age groups.
Essentially, had those governors followed standard quarantine and medical treatment procedures, using (in NYC for example) the resources provided by Trump in those early days, those "death" numbers would be significantly lower. More like we see elsewhere around the world.
So Trump's "culpability" is almost non-existent IMHO.
Trump should only be measured by his own metrics.
By that he is 100% culpable for every COVID-19 death.
It is his "disaster" and his complete fault that “people died unnecessarily and through incompetence” from his personal Pandemic, it is his his incompetence, thus in his own words where he has blamed 100% of all deaths in a previous Pandemic to that President, so it is not my opinion, it is ersatz president Donald Trump's OWN JUDGEMENT that condemns him.
It isn't my opinion...
Actually, as shown in my post #12 above, it IS your opinion.
An opinion shored by those same groups of people and media organizations who have been denigrating his Presidency since his election.
You are entitled to believe anything you wish. But as I also repeat over and over, FACTS matter.
We had a choice to make, save people or have economic ruin that would have made the 1930's look like a boom. Trump chose operation warp speed and not economic ruin. Sure, Trump could have locked the country down to greatly decrease the virus deaths but the results would have been a 90% drop in GDP and 90% unemployment. All of those European countries the left brags about spent all of this time fighting the virus to have better numbers than the US and now as they open up they are seeing surges all over again. In other words, what they did didn't work. Trump was smart enough to know that months ago.A spot poll on Pres. Trump's culpability in COVID-related deaths, to get a feel for where DP sentiment is at.
Some notes:
- Select the answer that most closely matches your view. If no option is suitable, please select "the answer can't presently be quantified" and explain in-thread.
- The option "None - Pres. Trump's Actions Would Have No Predictable, Provable Effect on the Numbers" should be the choice for any members who: i) believe Pres. Trump's actions would have no predictable, provable effect on the numbers in the long term, ii) believe the COVID figures are so highly inflated that any delta in the "real" numbers is necessarily insignificant, or iii) do not consider the deaths of sick or infirm people via COVID as a comorbidity rather than the direct cause of death to be legitimately "COVID-related" due to the underlying age and health issues.
- "Justified" in options 3-8 refers to moral rather than legal justification. "The long term" refers to the period > 10 years in the future, once the full human consequences due to the virus and the lockdown have been mostly/fully manifest. Those wishing to explain their position on justification are invited to do so.
- Answers should reflect only the number of American deaths among the ~200K reported COVID deaths thus far. This means that members who i) believe Pres. Trump's policies have only forward-shifted deaths (moved deaths ahead in time), not necessarily caused more, ii) believe Pres. Trump will be responsible for many more COVID-related deaths in future, and/or ii) believe the number of COVID-related deaths will ultimately be offset (or even negated) by a large number of lives saved due to economic ramifications of Pres. Trump's policies should not take these factors into consideration when selecting a percentage. However, any or all of these factors can of course count for or against justifiability.
IMHO, blame (for specific POTUS actions/inactions) is impossible to quantify.
We had a choice to make, save people or have economic ruin that would have made the 1930's look like a boom. Trump chose operation warp speed and not economic ruin. Sure, Trump could have locked the country down to greatly decrease the virus deaths but the results would have been a 90% drop in GDP and 90% unemployment. All of those European countries the left brags about spent all of this time fighting the virus to have better numbers than the US and now as they open up they are seeing surges all over again. In other words, what they did didn't work. Trump was smart enough to know that months ago.
Well thought out poll. I applaud you. However I’m having trouble accepting any of your options. I’m leaning towards 1&2. One seems a bit facetious. The government is tasked with protecting our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But that shouldn’t lean towards “nannism”.A spot poll on Pres. Trump's culpability in COVID-related deaths, to get a feel for where DP sentiment is at.
Some notes:
- Select the answer that most closely matches your view. If no option is suitable, please select "the answer can't presently be quantified" and explain in-thread.
- The option "None - Pres. Trump's Actions Would Have No Predictable, Provable Effect on the Numbers" should be the choice for any members who: i) believe Pres. Trump's actions would have no predictable, provable effect on the numbers in the long term, ii) believe the COVID figures are so highly inflated that any delta in the "real" numbers is necessarily insignificant, or iii) do not consider the deaths of sick or infirm people via COVID as a comorbidity rather than the direct cause of death to be legitimately "COVID-related" due to the underlying age and health issues.
- "Justified" in options 3-8 refers to moral rather than legal justification. "The long term" refers to the period > 10 years in the future, once the full human consequences due to the virus and the lockdown have been mostly/fully manifest. Those wishing to explain their position on justification are invited to do so.
- Answers should reflect only the number of American deaths among the ~200K reported COVID deaths thus far. This means that members who i) believe Pres. Trump's policies have only forward-shifted deaths (moved deaths ahead in time), not necessarily caused more, ii) believe Pres. Trump will be responsible for many more COVID-related deaths in future, and/or ii) believe the number of COVID-related deaths will ultimately be offset (or even negated) by a large number of lives saved due to economic ramifications of Pres. Trump's policies should not take these factors into consideration when selecting a percentage. However, any or all of these factors can of course count for or against justifiability.
Which is why he gets all of it. When a team underperforms, the coach gets fired.
There have been packed rallies against the ruling of the Taylor incident. You against those unprotected protests, for example?We heard rhe Woodward tapes. He’s been holding packed rallies.
What would it look like for him NOT to be culpable.
The protests against the Taylor ruling and in Portland, for example, spread the disease.
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