Politics be damned: Electric cars aren't really so polarizing

[PoS]

First off, it won't get 140 miles. Even new EV vehicles typically charge to only 90% of their rating. Load up that taxi and watch it go down. Add in hilly terrain and watch it go down. Toss in hot or cold weather and reduce that by about 30-40%. As it ages more loss.

Yup. The world is at least a couple of scientific breakthroughs away from making electric vehicles equal to that of fossil fuel ones. The science isnt there yet, so now is not the time for widespread implementation and replacement of older tech.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Anybody that has started up a gasoline-powered vehicle in 10-below-ZERO knows that they take a while to warm up, and struggle when first started. A catalytic convertor needs at least 550 deg F, and is optimum at 800 deg F. That can take quite some time. Meanwhile pollutants are being discharged into the atmosphere. Also, many cars are not maintained properly, and the catalytic convertors don't function properly.

Point-of-source pollution is not an issue with EVs.

Modern vehicles use computer controlled fuel injection thus catalyst failures are WAY WAY down these days.
A catalyst pretty fails ONE way, it CLOGS.
A clogged cat means a car that simply will not run well enough to drive in most cases, because it blocks the exhaust flow.

Which brings me to another point, in the form of a question:

Are people expecting cars to be zero maintenance? I ask because this thread seems to be leaning in a direction that suggests that people are pointing at examples of failures which occur when vehicles do not receive proper maintenance.

Sorry America, there's no such thing as a vehicle that doesn't need maintenance.
And if you mistreat your vehicle that way, you get whatever's coming to you and you deserve it.

 

[Waddy]

So you're saying that automotive electronics aren't a durable item?
That's an interesting POV to take, except that the MTBF on a Prius center console screen is, apparently "almost forever" because original first generation 1997 Prius center console display screens are apparently mostly still in working order.

That's twenty-two years and counting, which for a crummy little consumer economy car, is indeed almost forever.
My 1992 Astro van still had a perfectly functioning ECU computer when I sold it in 2009, with 241 thousand miles on it.

Prius taxicabs routinely rack up two and three hundred thousand miles with the original batteries still functioning at 85 to 90 percent capacity.
So where are all these reports of failed electronics?

One WIRE at a time? Really? You means cars in the old days didn't have "wires" that shorted out?
You sure about that?

Electronics wear out. Usually one at a time. Modern cars, especially EV's, aren't worth a major collision repair. The junk yards will be full of them in a few years. And yes, old cares had wires that shorted out. But any competent DIYer could track it down and fix it. Modern cars with hundreds of sensors and miles of wiring, everything dependent on everything else, makes repair a nightmare. As they age not worth it. Hence the advent of disposable cars. That's the real future.

 

[Waddy]

Yup. The world is at least a couple of scientific breakthroughs away from making electric vehicles equal to that of fossil fuel ones. The science isnt there yet, so now is not the time for widespread implementation and replacement of older tech.

To me it's a matter of time. Eventually cars will be as disposable as your cell phone, and for the same reasons. They will also be much more efficient during their life cycle. Just like your cell phone is better than your old rotary phone. And they will need to get much cheaper.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Electronics wear out. Usually one at a time. Modern cars, especially EV's, aren't worth a major collision repair. The junk yards will be full of them in a few years. And yes, old cares had wires that shorted out. But any competent DIYer could track it down and fix it. Modern cars with hundreds of sensors and miles of wiring, everything dependent on everything else, makes repair a nightmare. As they age not worth it. Hence the advent of disposable cars. That's the real future.

Sorry but that's a woefully uninformed opinion. If there was any truth to it we'd already be seeing this so called tsunami of spoiled disposable cars filling up our junkyards now. And they're just not, it's not happening.

You're going to have to back up your opinion with something other than just saying it with something that sounds like conviction.

And right now, to me, you sound like all those old editors that retired early when they switched from videotape editing to computer editing, or worse, the old film editors who refused to edit on anything but a flatbed or a Moviola, or the Directors of Photography who refused to stop shooting on film.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Wow, I am sixty-three years old and yet the forty year olds in this thread sound decades older than I do.
Absolutely amazing.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yup. The world is at least a couple of scientific breakthroughs away from making electric vehicles equal to that of fossil fuel ones. The science isnt there yet, so now is not the time for widespread implementation and replacement of older tech.

Yeah just remember that in tech, every year is a decade.

 

[JMaximus]

Looks like folks from all political ideologies are enjoying electric cars in the US. In 15 to 20 years, gasoline cars will go the direction of the flip-top phone.

EVs account for less than half a percent of motor vehicles on the road today and even as a percentage of sales, EVs are around 2%.

What revolution do you predict (technological, social, etc.) that will get EVs to near 100% of vehicles in just a couple decades?

Please be specific.

 

[PoS]

Yeah just remember that in tech, every year is a decade.

Ever heard of the S Curve? We're pretty much at the physical storage limits for electrochemical batteries- they cant store any more than what we've got. Future energy storage will have to be completely different if we are to make them more reliable.

When will the limitations of the battery be surmounted? While the computing power of devices grows exponentially, battery capacity does not. When will this change? - Quora

 

[Renae]

So you stop and do a Level 2 or Level 3 charge for twenty minutes and that gets you another 80-90 miles or so.
So called "Super Chargers" will top off a depleted battery in a matter of minutes for another 50-65% of charge.

That assumes there is such facilities along the way. We also drive to Abilene to see my parents, wichita to see my daughter... The widespread infrastructure for such driving by such cars doesn't exist. So for a long trip you'd go about an hour or so, and then have to stop for 30 min. Wichita is, on a GOOD DAY 10 hours by car, generally with 2 gas stops. Using that EV Car would make it a 2 day drive.

 

[Renae]

Wow, I am sixty-three years old and yet the forty year olds in this thread sound decades older than I do.
Absolutely amazing.

No, we're being practical. For city driving, EV cars are great. Even SA has lots of charging stations. Inside the 410 loop... I live outside the 1604 loop (Yes, go look at a map, look at how spread out the city is...) I've looked at EV cars, we rejected a pure EV for reasons. Wanted a hybrid but the cost was more than at that time we wanted to spend.

 

[dixon01767]

Politics be damned: Electric cars aren't really so polarizing

Looks like folks from all political ideologies are enjoying electric cars in the US. In 15 to 20 years, gasoline cars will go the direction of the flip-top phone.
In these days when the political dividing lines can seem insurmountable, Democrats, Republicans, and Independents have something in common: Regardless of their political affiliation, a majority say that they view electric vehicles positively.
A new survey from Climate Nexus has found that 77 percent—a strong majority—views EVs positively. That’s true across demographic groups, and includes 84 percent of Democrats, 75 percent of Independents, and 70 percent of Republicans.

95% view coffee pots favorably.

 

[Media_Truth]

EVs account for less than half a percent of motor vehicles on the road today and even as a percentage of sales, EVs are around 2%.

What revolution do you predict (technological, social, etc.) that will get EVs to near 100% of vehicles in just a couple decades?

Please be specific.

Main Item - Customer satisfaction. Other items outlined in original thread post.

Norway has gone head-over-heels for electric --->


Overall --->

 

[Renae]

Main Item - Customer satisfaction. Other items outlined in original thread post.

Norway has gone head-over-heels for electric --->
View attachment 67257545

Overall --->
View attachment 67257546

The number of electric vehicles increased at breakneck speed
The number of electric vehicles is increasing rapidly. In 2016, there were 41 per cent more electric cars on the roads than the previous year, but this vehicle group still only accounted for 3.7 per cent of the passenger car population at the end of last year. In 2016, electric vehicles’ total mileage was estimated at 1.7 billion kilometres. This gives an average annual mileage of 16 905 kilometres. For electric cars, the average mileage is estimated to be 16 840 kilometres.

Car numbers and mileage up - SSB
Almost 4% of all cars in Norway are EV, breathtaking...

 

[Media_Truth]

Car numbers and mileage up - SSB
Almost 4% of all cars in Norway are EV, breathtaking...

Your article is outdated. Read further --->

Electric Cars in Norway - Life in Norway

One of the few things the international media seem to cover relentlessly about Norway is the proliferation of electric car use across the country. And they're quite right. Norway has more electric cars on its road than any other country, on a per capita basis.

In the first three months of 2016, Norway registered 11,124 pure electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), representing 24.4 percent of all new vehicles.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Your article is outdated. Read further --->

Electric Cars in Norway - Life in Norway

One of the few things the international media seem to cover relentlessly about Norway is the proliferation of electric car use across the country. And they're quite right. Norway has more electric cars on its road than any other country, on a per capita basis.

In the first three months of 2016, Norway registered 11,124 pure electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), representing 24.4 percent of all new vehicles.

Yep, and if 1 out of 6 Norwegians bought a new car that would be about 4% of total vehicles. Put another way, over 75% of Norwegians buying new cars still preferred not to buy EVs or plug-in hybrids.

 

[wellwisher]

The problem with electric cars is practical. They have limitations in range, recharging, and are more expensive that other options. Side by side, with gasoline power, they are not ready for the big dance, just yet.

Where politics comes in, is using big government to cheat the free market, by forcing a less practical choice down everyone's throat, by hock or crook. This is no different from Government wanting everyone to have lobster once a week, and then supplementing the lobster industry and offering tax incentives so lobster goes down to $1.99 pound after all tax deductions. This looks good on paper, but it impacts self sufficient industries; catfish, that do not get to cheat. This no different from the way that Chinese government subsidizes it producers, to slant a level free market playing field in their favor.

The electric car industry needs to lose big Government and invest in R&D. If and when they develop a way to be competitive in the free market, the consumer will freely move, since consumer choice in the free market, is based on the best for less. A Big Government subsidy and forced compliance illusion is not the same thing, as real innovation and free consumer choices. If anything, if you can donate to politicians and get government to subsidize a second string option, why invest in R&D?

 

[Renae]

Your article is outdated. Read further --->

Electric Cars in Norway - Life in Norway

One of the few things the international media seem to cover relentlessly about Norway is the proliferation of electric car use across the country. And they're quite right. Norway has more electric cars on its road than any other country, on a per capita basis.

In the first three months of 2016, Norway registered 11,124 pure electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), representing 24.4 percent of all new vehicles.

Aces for them! EV have a market, and for those they meet they are good. I wouldn't buy one at this time.

 

[ludin]

Three words: Range, range, range. From my home in San Diego I can't make it to Las Vegas on a single charge; my ten-year old beater can make it there and back on one tank.

When EV's complete on a par with fuel vehicles, get back to me.

range is expensive.
it is the number 1 draw back.

currently anything with any decent size at 300 miles per charge
is in the 80-90k range.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The problem with electric cars is practical. They have limitations in range, recharging, and are more expensive that other options. Side by side, with gasoline power, they are not ready for the big dance, just yet.

Where politics comes in, is using big government to cheat the free market, by forcing a less practical choice down everyone's throat, by hock or crook. This is no different from Government wanting everyone to have lobster once a week, and then supplementing the lobster industry and offering tax incentives so lobster goes down to $1.99 pound after all tax deductions. This looks good on paper, but it impacts self sufficient industries; catfish, that do not get to cheat. This no different from the way that Chinese government subsidizes it producers, to slant a level free market playing field in their favor.

The electric car industry needs to lose big Government and invest in R&D. If and when they develop a way to be competitive in the free market, the consumer will freely move, since consumer choice in the free market, is based on the best for less. A Big Government subsidy and forced compliance illusion is not the same thing, as real innovation and free consumer choices. If anything, if you can donate to politicians and get government to subsidize a second string option, why invest in R&D?

That (bolded above) was likely said about the first "horseless carriages" too, since gas stations were few and far between. With anything new there will be a lag between the new thing and any required supporting services (e.g. recharging facilities).

I am able to extend the range (run time) of my battery powered tools by having spare batteries (pre-charged) to get me through the workday. When working at a remote site (which lacks electrical power) I take the discharged batteries home with me at the end of that workday and re-charge them for the next workday. For most work sites (which have electrical power) I simply re-charge them as they are swapped using the chargers mounted in my work trailer.

 

[Media_Truth]

The problem with electric cars is practical. They have limitations in range, recharging, and are more expensive that other options. Side by side, with gasoline power, they are not ready for the big dance, just yet.

Where politics comes in, is using big government to cheat the free market, by forcing a less practical choice down everyone's throat, by hock or crook. This is no different from Government wanting everyone to have lobster once a week, and then supplementing the lobster industry and offering tax incentives so lobster goes down to $1.99 pound after all tax deductions. This looks good on paper, but it impacts self sufficient industries; catfish, that do not get to cheat. This no different from the way that Chinese government subsidizes it producers, to slant a level free market playing field in their favor.

The electric car industry needs to lose big Government and invest in R&D. If and when they develop a way to be competitive in the free market, the consumer will freely move, since consumer choice in the free market, is based on the best for less. A Big Government subsidy and forced compliance illusion is not the same thing, as real innovation and free consumer choices. If anything, if you can donate to politicians and get government to subsidize a second string option, why invest in R&D?

Worth reposting #30...

You don't like the fact that they've incentivized electric vehicles? You have to realize that it is the government who is responsible for EPA out-of-compliance air quality. Penalty fees come out of their budget.
Electric vehicles have ZERO point-of-source pollution. It's a very reasonable solution. Here's a list of the most polluted cities in the US. It may surprise you. Most of the big cities of the US are on the list.

Most Polluted Cities | State of the Air | American Lung Association

 

[Media_Truth]

range is expensive.
it is the number 1 draw back.

currently anything with any decent size at 300 miles per charge
is in the 80-90k range.

A 238-mile range easily meets the needs of most people. Chevy Bolt MSRP --- $36,620...

2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV

Order ahead of time though. When I looked, everyone was sold before they even shipped to the dealer.

 

[jmotivator]

There is a HUGE chasm between seeing electric cars "positively" and thinking the government should spill billions into promoting them.

 

[Mason66]

You shouldn’t. many conservatives have knee jerk hate because anything environmentally friendly is an enemy.

You didn't just call an electric car environmentally friendly, did you?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I should also mention that, in 2019, there is still a $7500 federal tax rebate on electric vehicles. Many states also have tax rebates and other incentives. Colorado has a $5000 state tax rebate.

The 7500 rebate no long applies to Tesla, which I believe is now at 3750. It is dependent on the number of cars each manufacture has sold (EVs). By 2021 Tesla will likely not have any federal rebate