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Police shooting. Justified? Really?

Excon

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Police shooting. Justified? Really?


I was made aware of this shooting the other day and I was just wondering what others thought.


Now I do understand the need for Police to shoot and take down a threat. Especially when one wields a knife.
And the fact remains that the officer was cleared. DA: Shooting

But from my observation, the guy was faced to the side and not a threat to the Officer at the time of shooting. And that the number of times he shot the guy was obsessive, especially after falling to the ground.

What are your thoughts.




Better quality here.

LiveLeak.com - Manteca California police execute Parolee Ernest Duenez.(full video)
 

The initial shooting was justified. If a cop pulls up behind you, pulls out his gun, and is approaching your car, you do not jump out with a knife in your hand. I do think however that the cop shot a few too many times. He kept shooting while the guy was on the ground.
 

Ok.

I have to disagree with you.

You shoot to eliminate the threat. The guy was faced sideways and was not even facing or approaching the officer. That is not an actual threat.

But I am only trying to get a feel of what others think, so sorry for being oppositional.
 
Excon said:
Ok.

I have to disagree with you.

You shoot to eliminate the threat. The guy was faced sideways and was not even facing or approaching the officer. That is not an actual threat.
Click to expand...
I can agree, but I tend to give police and military a little leeway when it comes to situations where they felt they were in danger. He was pretty close to him, in about half a second he could've turned and thrown the knife, or lunged and stabbed him with it.

Fact is, he saw the cop approach with a gun, so he jumped out with a knife in hand. That's asking to get shot, and according to the article, this wasn't this guy's first rodeo. He definitely knew better.
 

I have to agree

initially shooting definitely justified

the amount of shots seems aggressive (personally watching on video and not being in the situation)

the very last shot seems like a little much to me (personally watching on video and not being in the situation)

now even though i feel that way i would also call the shooting justified because the elapse time for the justified shots is very small

but what seals the deal for me is anybody that jumps out of a truck with a knife after seeing an officer approach with a gun drawn and is also told to put the knife down is not trust worthy at all! In my opinion they can understandably be deemed a serious threat and or high or insane.

Nothing should happen to this officer expect some additional situational training to rehash grey areas
 
Rules to learn in life.

You don't tease a pit bull.

You don't jump out of a car with a knife pulled after a cop has asked you to exit.
 
My take is that the "parolee" is, in fact, armed, dangerous and making a threat so the shooting is justified. You do not shoot to wound/warn, you shoot to kill. The threat is not eliminated otherwise. The perp exited from the passenger side, was there a driver as well?
 

I've watched this several times. What I found odd was that the officer had his gun drawn initially, and holstered it. That's odd. Why would he have holstered his gun right in the beginning? Strange. Since the guy had a knife in his hand, I think it was justified. (Forensic analysis of the video proved he did.)

It's pretty obvious the officer's adrenalin was pumping like crazy...it's a miracle he didn't shoot the girl.
 
Some initial observations and my opinion after seeing this video.

The officer had pulled up behind the subject with his vehicle in an appropriate position, but the subject came out the passenger side of his vehicle requiring the officer to go between the vehicles. The officer was giving loud verbal commands while the subject was in and exiting the car.

The officer pulled his weapon as he was giving verbal commands, and starts holstering the weapon until he sees the subject with a knife, and draws the gun a second time. After shooting the subject firing his weapon 14 times, two potential threats exit the house, and one approaches the subject.

The officer could not keep the apparently unarmed girl away from the subject. A second girl, with a bag or purse goes back in the house and could be the one that was looking thru a window later.

Back-up officers get there in about 20 seconds from his first call of shots fired.
The officer called the subject by his first name, and many more facts have been determined that are covered in the article below.

This officer was obviously under an extremely high level of stress. It appears that he fired too many shots with some late ones, but to keep shooting until, in his mind the threat is neutralized, is the correct course of action. And, those shots were fired in an extremely short period of time. When a fellow officer "asked him how many shots did you fire?", he answered 6. This is an a very common event in deadly force situations.

In spite of that, he tactically handled himself well, and was even able to perceive and address potential additional threats that developed during the incident. If a secondary threat materialized, he probably only had a couple of rounds left in his weapon. The way this officer handled himself in this situation, I’m certain he would have tactically dealt with it.

This officer is obviously experienced, well trained, and in my opinion clearly justified in using deadly force.


DA: Shooting

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Do you mean excessive instead of obsessive?....then yes..... but I think it has a lot to do with the level of control *said shooter* has over the weapon. Some dudes with good technique will put the rounds very close together. While others, less skilled, get rounds all over. How many rounds fired is also a factor. 2 rounds is not much spread. 4-6 can get real sloppy if the shooter doesn't let the sight settle. Better training will produce better results.
 

What he said.
 

Apparently you didn't read so correctly. They found a knife in the vehicle, not in his hand.

Not to mention if he even did have a knife that doesn't justify cops shooting him 11 times - the cop was only 15 feet from him with cover.

As usual the police are held to no standards whatsoever...

That cop murdered that man!
 
From the article:


Reading is hard.
 
Crosscheck said:
Rules to learn in life.

You don't tease a pit bull.

You don't jump out of a car with a knife pulled after a cop has asked you to exit.
Click to expand...

Cops are vile pieces of crap. I'm sure the guy went home and shared with his kids how he murdered a "bad guy."

Oh yeah, the guy didn't exit the car with a knife - the cops found a knife in the car (as if owning a knife or having one in your car is odd), as if him owning a knife somehow justifies this homicide.

That cop belongs in prison. The deceased didn't proposition the cops aggressively and there was no knife.

Those cops went for "kill shots" they didn't even make an attempt to disable him.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Cops are vile pieces of crap. I'm sure the guy went home and shared with his kids how he murdered a "bad guy."
Click to expand...

You haven't known many cops if you think that.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
From the article:





Reading is hard.
Click to expand...

Really? then why the hell is the cop wasting his time asking for a knife if the deceased reportedly had one that was laying next to him while he was dying?

Also, even if he did have a knife in his hand (which he didn't) that would hardly justify 11 kill shots with four LEO's on the scene. They could have tased him or even shot his legs out - instead they decided to KILL HIM!

If I killed someone like that and even if it was on camera I would be charged with second degree murder, but somehow the law is different for the boys in blue?
 
I know the policy in many departments, at least a decade ago, was that once you start firing, you don't stop until your weapon is empty.
 
clownboy said:
You haven't known many cops if you think that.
Click to expand...

Lets just say one of my family members has their own Liveleak fame with cops... I'll swear on my soul that the cops lied over 100 times on the stand contradicting the video evidence that is on Liveleak (that was presented as evidence) and almost every viral video site out there that carries the video my family is in.

Cops are liars. Cops don't represent justice they represent their own "band of brothers" and agenda. When cops screw up they lie to protect themselves and their "brothers."

Cops are gangbangers...
 
When did the cop ask for a knife? He can be heard in the video to have shouted "drop the knife" several times. And, as I pointed out, professional video analysts have declared that he did in fact have a knife in his hand in the video. I suppose you know better than them?

The perp was reported to be armed with a "throwing knife" prior to the officer arriving on scene. The officer knew approaching him that it was a throwing knife. That is equally as deadly as a firearm.

I've already stated that 11 shots was excessive, but it was a heat of the moment thing. When a police officer pulls up behind you, gets out, draws his gun, and starts shouting for you to drop your knife or he will shoot you, you should probably drop the knife.

Trust me, in this day and age, if there were any reason to prosecute him, they would do it. They never miss a beat when they get an opportunity to charge a police officer with misconduct.

I'm glad he took the perp out before we had to have a 21 gun salute.
 
clownboy said:
I know the policy in many departments, at least a decade ago, was that once you start firing, you don't stop until your weapon is empty.
Click to expand...

That'd be my policy, that's for sure.
 

Aha! So now we have it. You have a personal beef with cops. I was wondering why you were reacting so emotional and irrational.
 

Then it is fair to assume your family member was found not guilty? Or is the conspiracy even wider than you suggest. "Let's ignore the video evidence, and find this guy guilty anyway."
 

Watch the full 21 minute Liveleak video. The cop who shot the deceased had to cut the deceased shirt off and the cop asked for a knife several times to do so.

Also there was nothing "heat of the moment" about that situation. The guy was obviously going to run from the cops. The cops made it clear they already knew who the guy was - they didn't have to kill him.

A couple shots in the leg would have been excessive but they executed this man. It's quite clear they enjoyed doing is as well.
 
Yeah, yeah, haters gonna hate. He's not going to jail, and you seem to be the only person who thinks he should. *shrugs* Guess you'll have to take the cop hatin' else where.
 
MaggieD said:
Then it is fair to assume your family member was found not guilty? Or is the conspiracy even wider than you suggest. "Let's ignore the video evidence, and find this guy guilty anyway."
Click to expand...

It's a long story with my family. At the time we had video that contradicted absolutely everything the LEO's claimed happened but it was against the law to use the tape under "wire tapping laws" so the video with audio couldn't be used.

If you really have an interest you can watch the documentary my family made, instead of explaining the entire story to you.

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