Police Charged After Violent Arrest Taped

[MSgt]

Surely you understand the importance of having something like the UN. Never was their true worth more evident than 1945. How quickly we forget the mistakes we should be learning from.

Yeah, but it's not us that forgot. Just like Europe looked the other way as Hitler's Nazi movement spread to the west, so are they still looking the other way as the Islamic extremists spread their violence and hatred into Africa, southern Europe, and to Asia. Even China is getting nervous in one of their provinces.

 

[MSgt]

Yeah, their were oil scandals involving Russia and I heard France and Germany. However, the question is, is the US in Iraq due to oil interests and was simply competing for influence in this oil rich region with other nations?

Of course, oil is a reason, but I doubt for that reason. There are many others.

 

[TimmyBoy]

Of course, oil is a reason, but I doubt for that reason. There are many others.

What are some of the other reasons in your view? I am a veteran of Bosnia and what I saw of the US was the US ignoring a major catastraphe and negotiating and appeasing the worst war criminals in Europe since World War II. So, now it makes me deeply sucpicious of the US government intentions in Iraq. I also know our country is deeply dependent on Middle East oil. I would have gladly gave my life to save 250,000 Bosnians but the Clinton Adminstration ignored the genocide and rewarded those men who committed genocide. It was the same story in Rwanda too. So when the US finally gets involved in such an oil rich region, the perception is that the US only gets involved based on interests rather than moral priniples. So, you think we are in Iraq due to oil, what are some of the other reasons and what is the biggest reason why are in Iraq in your view?

 

[Binary_Digit]

Yeah, but it's not us that forgot. Just like Europe looked the other way as Hitler's Nazi movement spread to the west, so are they still looking the other way as the Islamic extremists spread their violence and hatred into Africa, southern Europe, and to Asia. Even China is getting nervous in one of their provinces.

True, the UN was/is a corrupt sack of ****. But that's not a good reason to completely disregard all the written standards that govern the UN and its mission, as if the spirit of intent behind those words were equally corrupt. Especially ones that directly pertain to human rights issues, like torture.

 

[Donkey1499]

Pull your head out of your ass. It is common practice for our military to hand over the hardened prisoners that will not talk after our interrogations to a military ally that is not restricted to the "code of higher morality."

For example...In Somalia in 1993, we would hand over a suspected Aideed loyalist to the Belgians. They would then return later with information that was extracted. - Who was the President then?

Ohh ohh... let me guess! It was CARTER... no... umm... Bush Sr.? No dammit.... ah yes! CLINTON!!!
:rofl

 

[Donkey1499]

Hey, I was born and raised in Arkansas, no way we are smarter than 14 other states. Moreover, how is Oklahoma not dead last? It's like a state law that you to leave half your brain at the stateline when you drive through it.:lol:

:rofl I'm from Florida; and according to that list I got a poor edumakashun!

 

[Donkey1499]

That's bullshit. It is not necessary to torture people, unless you want fabricated stories. That's the only consistent "intelligence" to be had from torture. It has never been a reliable means of gaining valuable information for any country at any time in history.

"A decent society never accepts or justifies torture. It dehumanizes both torturer and victim, yet seldom produces reliable intelligence. Torture by rogue American troops or agents puts all Americans at risk, especially our rank-and-file soldiers stationed in dozens of dangerous places around the globe. God forbid terrorists take American soldiers or travelers hostage and torture them as some kind of sick retaliation for Abu Gharib."

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm

I respect you man, like I do all Marines, but you should pull your head out of your ass too.

You've kinda got a point there with the American Hostages that are taken by terrorists.

 

[MSgt]

What are some of the other reasons in your view? I am a veteran of Bosnia and what I saw of the US was the US ignoring a major catastraphe and negotiating and appeasing the worst war criminals in Europe since World War II. So, now it makes me deeply sucpicious of the US government intentions in Iraq. I also know our country is deeply dependent on Middle East oil. I would have gladly gave my life to save 250,000 Bosnians but the Clinton Adminstration ignored the genocide and rewarded those men who committed genocide. It was the same story in Rwanda too. So when the US finally gets involved in such an oil rich region, the perception is that the US only gets involved based on interests rather than moral priniples. So, you think we are in Iraq due to oil, what are some of the other reasons and what is the biggest reason why are in Iraq in your view?

First of all....Clinton appeased, he did not lead. This is why we got yanked out of Somalia after a few moans from our civilians. Bosnia was the same story. Senselessly bombing Iraq a few times and keeping us from doing what we should have done back then also allowed for his maintaining of high polls. A war in Rwanda was also not in the polls. The military and its analysts have been screaming about Islamic fundamentalism for two decades. They were ignored all through the 90's as it spread into Sudan, Southern Europe and Asia. It is still spreading. Of course, the extremists are concerned with Iraq for now.

Good deeds are always mired and twisted in the minds of conspiracy theorists. Sadly, if it sounds good, the global left will latch onto it and ride it into the ground.

Reasons for Iraq (Not in any specific order)...

1) Oil - Currently we get our oil from Saudi Arabia and we are sworn to protect these true lords of terror with our blood because they have us by the balls. Iraq offers us a possible future alternative.

2) Liberation - Before the assault, we were instructed to pull down all American Flags, because we are to be seen as a liberating force, not a conquering force.
"Torture and ill-treatment is systematic and widespread in Iraq, despite its
prohibition under the Iraqi Constitution and under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Anti-government political suspects are especially at risk, and are routinely tortured or ill-treated in custody. Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives. The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape. Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140022001

3) Saddam was a definate financial threat to America and Israel and to the Arab Islamic world he was proof that defying the UN and America is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

4) Stategic location - Iraq offers us strategic advantage. With Afghanistan on the other side, we have Iran surounded and a launch base against Syria.

5) Muslim military - With a successful Iraq, we have a Muslim military that we have trained and equipped to possibly fight along side us or at least not fight against us.

6) Fundamental Islam - Islam is a definate problem in the Middle East. Without democracy, the arabs of the Middle East will continue to live under oppression and be subjective to the hate speech that is preached to them, which is the root of all of this extremists movements. Iraq was as good a place to start as any. Maybe it'll spread. Maybe not.

 

[Donkey1499]

What are some of the other reasons in your view? I am a veteran of Bosnia and what I saw of the US was the US ignoring a major catastraphe and negotiating and appeasing the worst war criminals in Europe since World War II. So, now it makes me deeply sucpicious of the US government intentions in Iraq. I also know our country is deeply dependent on Middle East oil. I would have gladly gave my life to save 250,000 Bosnians but the Clinton Adminstration ignored the genocide and rewarded those men who committed genocide. It was the same story in Rwanda too. So when the US finally gets involved in such an oil rich region, the perception is that the US only gets involved based on interests rather than moral priniples. So, you think we are in Iraq due to oil, what are some of the other reasons and what is the biggest reason why are in Iraq in your view?

I'm not accusing you or anyone else of anything. It's that I feel I need to rant on about this whole "Bush only went to Iraq for the Oil" thing. I'm not denying that the US is there for the oil (Just look at the high presence of Haliburton). But it sounds like to me sometimes that some ppl just don't get it that America is mainly there to give the Iraqi ppl the same democratic freedoms that we take for granted. It also sounds like that those ppl want Saddaam back in power, and I ask myself, "why?" Why should the Iraqis live under the fear and oppression of Hussein's Regime again? Just so that we can leave their oil interests alone?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

First of all....Clinton appeased, he did not lead. This is why we got yanked out of Somalia after a few moans from our civilians. Bosnia was the same story. Senselessly bombing Iraq a few times and keeping us from doing what we should have done back then also allowed for his maintaining of high polls. A war in Rwanda was also not in the polls. The military and its analysts have been screaming about Islamic fundamentalism for two decades. They were ignored all through the 90's as it spread into Sudan, Southern Europe and Asia. It is still spreading. Of course, the extremists are concerned with Iraq for now.

Good deeds are always mired and twisted in the minds of conspiracy theorists. Sadly, if it sounds good, the global left will latch onto it and ride it into the ground.

Reasons for Iraq (Not in any specific order)...

1) Oil - Currently we get our oil from Saudi Arabia and we are sworn to protect these true lords of terror with our blood because they have us by the balls. Iraq offers us a possible future alternative.

2) Liberation - Before the assault, we were instructed to pull down all American Flags, because we are to be seen as a liberating force, not a conquering force.
"Torture and ill-treatment is systematic and widespread in Iraq, despite its
prohibition under the Iraqi Constitution and under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Anti-government political suspects are especially at risk, and are routinely tortured or ill-treated in custody. Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives. The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape. Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140022001

3) Saddam was a definate financial threat to America and Israel and to the Arab Islamic world he was proof that defying the UN and America is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

4) Stategic location - Iraq offers us strategic advantage. With Afghanistan on the other side, we have Iran surounded and a launch base against Syria.

5) Muslim military - With a successful Iraq, we have a Muslim military that we have trained and equipped to possibly fight along side us or at least not fight against us.

6) Fundamental Islam - Islam is a definate problem in the Middle East. Without democracy, the arabs of the Middle East will continue to live under oppression and be subjective to the hate speech that is preached to them, which is the root of all of this extremists movements. Iraq was as good a place to start as any. Maybe it'll spread. Maybe not.

So it is an entirely elective war fought almost purely for ideological reasons. Good to see that even you seem to see that.

The war was sold to the American people as a war for our national security. That Iraq posed an immediate and pressing threat to our security. Of course, that was not the case. You were instructed to pull down the American flags and go in like liberators because that is how they wanted it to look to the Iraqi people. To them we were liberators, however, that is not what this war was sold to the American people as.

Before anyone even starts. I know, I know, in a few obscure speeches before the war, Bush made mention of the oppressed Iraqi people, but to say that the talk of mushroom clouds and huge stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons was not what the Administration hung its hat on to get public support for the war would be intellectually dishonest and as the polls show, few people buy it anymore.

 

[TimmyBoy]

So it is an entirely elective war fought almost purely for ideological reasons. Good to see that even you seem to see that.

The war was sold to the American people as a war for our national security. That Iraq posed an immediate and pressing threat to our security. Of course, that was not the case. You were instructed to pull down the American flags and go in like liberators because that is how they wanted it to look to the Iraqi people. To them we were liberators, however, that is not what this war was sold to the American people as.

Before anyone even starts. I know, I know, in a few obscure speeches before the war, Bush made mention of the oppressed Iraqi people, but to say that the talk of mushroom clouds and huge stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons was not what the Administration hung its hat on to get public support for the war would be intellectually dishonest and as the polls show, few people buy it anymore.

Every war starts with a lie. Truth is the first casualty.

 

[MSgt]

So it is an entirely elective war fought almost purely for ideological reasons. Good to see that even you seem to see that.

You were instructed to pull down the American flags and go in like liberators because that is how they wanted it to look to the Iraqi people. To them we were liberators, however, that is not what this war was sold to the American people as.

1) I see a lot more than you think and have written many commentaries on it. I just don't get hung up on the negatives and I realize that even "oil" is important. As long as it allows you to maintain your current lifestyle and might provide for a better future strategic way of getting that oil without Saudi influence, it's worth it. I would love a future, where Saudi Arabia is no longer an "ally".

2) Taking the flags down had to do with the world perspective also. ...and with all due respect, the American people didn't need much to be sold. Getting rid of Saddam was on everybody's mind. The only question was when.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I'm not accusing you or anyone else of anything. It's that I feel I need to rant on about this whole "Bush only went to Iraq for the Oil" thing. I'm not denying that the US is there for the oil (Just look at the high presence of Haliburton). But it sounds like to me sometimes that some ppl just don't get it that America is mainly there to give the Iraqi ppl the same democratic freedoms that we take for granted. It also sounds like that those ppl want Saddaam back in power, and I ask myself, "why?" Why should the Iraqis live under the fear and oppression of Hussein's Regime again? Just so that we can leave their oil interests alone?

I have to agree with that. To me, it doesn't make sense that we went to war for oil when we're already getting what we need from Saudi Arabia. Not only that, but more often lately, we're looking at alternative fuels like hydrogen. Bush has said in his speeches that we need to end our dependancy on Middle East oil, one of the few things I completely agree with him on.

I think we went to war for the very reasons we were given. Our government concluded that there was an iminent threat of WMDs in Iraq that could end up in the hands of al'Qaeda, to be used against the U.S. and/or our allies. Based on Sadaam Hussein's shady behavior for the past 12 years, the UN's incompetence in dealing with him, and assuming all available evidence of WMD "stockpiles" was accurate, it seemed like a reasonable conclusion at the time.

Some of the WMD "evidence" was completely false, some of the WMD's were probably buried or moved to Syria, and some were probably destroyed in No-Fly-Zone squabbles over the last decade with no documentation of their destruction. So now the main reason we are given is that it was to liberate an oppressed people from a facist Islamic madman.

Nevermind the fact that the liberation of the Iraqi people would not have garnered enough support from Congress OR the American people, had that been the main reason for war to begin with. Bush made a good decision based on bad information. Maybe I'm too gullible, but the reasons Bush has given makes more sense to me than any conspiracy theory I've heard yet.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Hey Gunny, if you guys were told to lower Colors, did the guys who draped her over Hussein's fallen statue get in trouble? Man I was embarrassed when I saw that...

 

[ALiberalModerate]

1) I see a lot more than you think and have written many commentaries on it. I just don't get hung up on the negatives and I realize that even "oil" is important. As long as it allows you to maintain your current lifestyle and might provide for a better future strategic way of getting that oil without Saudi influence, it's worth it. I would love a future, where Saudi Arabia is no longer an "ally".

2) Taking the flags down had to do with the world perspective also. ...and with all due respect, the American people didn't need much to be sold. Getting rid of Saddam was on everybody's mind. The only question was when.

Of course oil is important. Our entire way of life is predicated on cheap energy. With worldwide demand for oil surging as developing economies like China and India ramp up though, I doubt you will ever see a day where Saudi Arabia is no longer an ally until that nation's oil fields dry up.

If you ask me, the best argument in favor of the war is that it was necessary to get rid of Saddam because worldwide demand for oil was soon going to require that Iraq's oil be fully opened up to the world market and that if we did not get rid of Saddam, opening it up would flood him with money and resources. Something that would have made containing Iraq much more difficult.

 

[scottyz]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051011/ap_on_re_us/new_orleans_taped_beating

A retired elementary teacher who was repeatedly punched in the head by police in an incident caught on videotape said Monday he was not drunk, put up no resistance and was baffled by what happened.

Robert Davis said he had returned to New Orleans to check on property his family owns in the storm-ravaged city, and was out looking to buy cigarettes when he was beaten and arrested Saturday night in the French Quarter.

Police have alleged that the 64-year-old Davis was publicly intoxicated, a charge he strongly denied as he stood on the street corner where the incident played out Saturday.

"I haven't had a drink in 25 years," Davis said. He had stitches beneath his left eye, a bandage on his left hand and complained of soreness in his back and aches in his left shoulder.

"This other guy interfered and I said he shouldn't," Davis said. "I started to cross the street and — bam — I got it. ... All I know is this guy attacked me and said, `I will kick your ass,' and they proceeded to do it."

He said he did not know why the punches were thrown.

The confrontation came as the New Orleans Police Department — long plagued by allegations of brutality and corruption — struggles with the aftermath of Katrina.

The APTN tape shows an officer hitting Davis at least four times in the head outside a bar. Davis twisted and flailed as he was dragged to the ground by several officers. Davis's lawyer said his client did not resist.

"I don't think that when a person is getting beat up there's a whole lot of thought. It's survival. You don't have a whole lot of time to think when you're being pummeled," lawyer Joseph Bruno said.

Davis was kneed and pushed to the sidewalk with blood streaming down his arm and into the gutter. The officers accused of striking Davis were identified as Schilling and Evangelist.

Mayor Ray Nagin said, "I don't know what the gentleman did, but whatever he did, he didn't deserve what I saw on tape."

During the arrest, another officer, identified as Smith, ordered APTN producer Rich Matthews and a cameraman to stop recording. When Matthews held up his credentials, the officer grabbed the producer, leaned him backward over a car, jabbed him in the stomach and unleashed a profanity-laced tirade.

I apologize for POSTING ON TOPIC MATERIAL.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Scotty, how dare you post on topic?!?

J/k - according to that maybe Ima Troll was right, he didn't resist arrest. Glad that camera was rolling, I wonder how many other NO citizens get beaten by the police like that without proof to take to court?

 

[MSgt]

Hey Gunny, if you guys were told to lower Colors, did the guys who draped her over Hussein's fallen statue get in trouble? Man I was embarrassed when I saw that...

Hahaha. That was the Wolf Pack (3rd LAR). They were attached to 3rd Battalion Fourth Marines. When that happened, General Mattis (1st Division General) immediately sent word down the chain that the Marines responsible had something to answer to, because he was waiting for heat to come down from higher in the chain. That heat never came. The Marines that did it received no trouble. Marines are Marines. This, of course, was nothing compared to what the National Guard would do later and make us all look bad.

Why were you embarassed? We were thrilled when we heard that they chained the statue and dragged it down with the help of Iraqi citizens. The flag covering was a brief little shot in the arm.

 

[MSgt]

Scotty, how dare you post on topic?!?

J/k - according to that maybe Ima Troll was right, he didn't resist arrest. Glad that camera was rolling, I wonder how many other NO citizens get beaten by the police like that without proof to take to court?

It won't receive barely any media at all. You know why? Because he wasn't black and the race card can't get dragged out. Neither can it be used as political grand standing. I'm sure the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were hopeful as to his color.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Hahaha. That was the Wolf Pack (3rd LAR). They were attached to 3rd Battalion Fourth Marines. When that happened, General Mattis (1st Division General) immediately sent word down the chain that the Marines responsible had something to answer to, because he was waiting for heat to come down from higher in the chain. That heat never came. The Marines that did it received no trouble. Marines are Marines. This, of course, was nothing compared to what the National Guard would do later and make us all look bad.

Why were you embarassed? We were thrilled when we heard that they chained the statue and dragged it down with the help of Iraqi citizens. The flag covering was a brief little shot in the arm.

The flag was there toshow that america is now in power of the situation and that sadaam is truly dethroned. It was a propoganda tool to show all of the world that america once again prevailed. And that it is now superceeded over sadaam.

To show your enemy that you have won you declare and show your presence there which is usually planting your flag there kinda like Iwo Jima remember?

 

[TimmyBoy]

First of all....Clinton appeased, he did not lead. This is why we got yanked out of Somalia after a few moans from our civilians. Bosnia was the same story. Senselessly bombing Iraq a few times and keeping us from doing what we should have done back then also allowed for his maintaining of high polls. A war in Rwanda was also not in the polls. The military and its analysts have been screaming about Islamic fundamentalism for two decades. They were ignored all through the 90's as it spread into Sudan, Southern Europe and Asia. It is still spreading. Of course, the extremists are concerned with Iraq for now.

Good deeds are always mired and twisted in the minds of conspiracy theorists. Sadly, if it sounds good, the global left will latch onto it and ride it into the ground.

Reasons for Iraq (Not in any specific order)...

1) Oil - Currently we get our oil from Saudi Arabia and we are sworn to protect these true lords of terror with our blood because they have us by the balls. Iraq offers us a possible future alternative.

2) Liberation - Before the assault, we were instructed to pull down all American Flags, because we are to be seen as a liberating force, not a conquering force.
"Torture and ill-treatment is systematic and widespread in Iraq, despite its
prohibition under the Iraqi Constitution and under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Anti-government political suspects are especially at risk, and are routinely tortured or ill-treated in custody. Torture is used as a punishment or to extract information, and victims have no access to lawyers and relatives. The methods of torture that have been reported include beating detainees while they are suspended by the limbs, applying electric shocks to various parts of the body, falaqa (beating on the soles of the feet), extinguishing cigarettes on the body, extracting finger and toenails, gouging out the ears, and rape. Psychological torture include mock executions, forcing the detainee to watch others being tortured and solitary confinement."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE140022001

3) Saddam was a definate financial threat to America and Israel and to the Arab Islamic world he was proof that defying the UN and America is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

4) Stategic location - Iraq offers us strategic advantage. With Afghanistan on the other side, we have Iran surounded and a launch base against Syria.

5) Muslim military - With a successful Iraq, we have a Muslim military that we have trained and equipped to possibly fight along side us or at least not fight against us.

6) Fundamental Islam - Islam is a definate problem in the Middle East. Without democracy, the arabs of the Middle East will continue to live under oppression and be subjective to the hate speech that is preached to them, which is the root of all of this extremists movements. Iraq was as good a place to start as any. Maybe it'll spread. Maybe not.

Yeah man, when I was in Bosnia and saw how the Serbs killed all those Muslims, the longer I stayed, the more of the truth came out as to how Clinton appeased these war criminals. It was an outrage. Especially when you see all the death and destruction, it was an outrage that Clinton rewarded this sort of behavior. We could have easily stopped that genocide and saved the lives of 250,000 people. But Clinton chose to appease. The Dayton Peace Accords were a sham. I mean, I think we should have rolled the Serbs all the way back to Serbia and we easily could have, but Clinton used the Dayton Peace Accords as a means to finish the partitioning of Bosnia.

 

[Donkey1499]

It won't receive barely any media at all. You know why? Because he wasn't black and the race card can't get dragged out. Neither can it be used as political grand standing. I'm sure the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson were hopeful as to his color.

No political Grand Standing? Then you haven't been to Florida lately! In St. Petersburg the SPPD is under some serious heat still from that 19 yr. black man that got shot while he was reaching for his gun. The white officer that shot him is getting death threats. The NAACP is all over this like a wet shirt.

Also, did you hear earlier in the year about that little girl that was hand-cuffed? NAACP is that one as well.

And in Hillsborough County (I think) a man and his hostage were shot by police. The suspect fired on the cops so the cops returned fire, killing the suspect and his hostage (She actually died in the hospital of her wounds). Even tho the hostage was a Drug Dealer/User and a Prostitute I still have mixed feelings on this case. Did she really deserve to die?

And, St. Pete Cops were given 200 taser guns. But you still get the libs that say tasers cause heart failure...

 

[Donkey1499]

I can always present links for my above post, or you can check out www.baynews9.com or www.tbo.com.

 

[MSgt]

No political Grand Standing? Then you haven't been to Florida lately! In St. Petersburg the SPPD is under some serious heat still from that 19 yr. black man that got shot while he was reaching for his gun. The white officer that shot him is getting death threats. The NAACP is all over this like a wet shirt.

Also, did you hear earlier in the year about that little girl that was hand-cuffed? NAACP is that one as well.

And in Hillsborough County (I think) a man and his hostage were shot by police. The suspect fired on the cops so the cops returned fire, killing the suspect and his hostage (She actually died in the hospital of her wounds). Even tho the hostage was a Drug Dealer/User and a Prostitute I still have mixed feelings on this case. Did she really deserve to die?

And, St. Pete Cops were given 200 taser guns. But you still get the libs that say tasers cause heart failure...

What did this have to do with the New Orleans incident? I was referring to that one and remarking on the victims lack of "blackness" and how it can't be used like those incidents you referred to are.

 

[Donkey1499]

What did this have to do with the New Orleans incident? I was referring to that one and remarking on the victims lack of "blackness" and how it can't be used like those incidents you referred to are.

It's crimes that relate to police brutality. Although the 3 crimes I posted, the claims of police brutality can be questioned, but some groups think that it is police brutality in those 3 crimes. Get where I'm coming from now?