Poland designates July 11th Remembrance Day for Polish victims of Genocide at the hands of Ukrainian Nationalists

[Juin]

I never said that. Are you an American spending your time bolstering Russia?

Russians are no more demons than Brits, French and US are angels. Lets cut out the sanctimonius bs. How many hundreds of thousands of cadavers did the angels from the west leave behind in Iraq? There is a war between Russia vs Nato/Eu and its proxy Ukraine. That's it. When the dust settles a later generation will see through the crap.

 

[iguanaman]

.

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

The massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia (Polish language: rzeź wołyńska , literally: Volhynian slaughter; Ukrainian: Волинська трагедія, Volyn tragedy) were part of an ethnic cleansing operation carried out in Nazi Germany-occupied Poland by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)'s...

military-history.fandom.com

I wonder when the day to commemorate the Katyn Massacre is?

After Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union concluded their Nonaggression Pact of 1939 and Germany invaded Poland from the west, Soviet forces occupied the eastern half of Poland. As a consequence of this occupation, tens of thousands of Polish military personnel fell into Soviet hands and were interned in prison camps inside the Soviet Union. But after the Germans invaded the Soviet Union (June 1941), the Polish government-in-exile (located in London) and the Soviet government agreed to cooperate against Germany, and a Polish army on Soviet territory was to be formed. The Polish general Władysław Anders began organizing this army, but when he requested that 15,000 Polish prisoners of war whom the Soviets had once held at camps near Smolensk be transferred to his command, the Soviet government informed him in December 1941 that most of those prisoners had escaped to Manchuria and could not be located.

The fate of the missing prisoners remained a mystery. Then on April 13, 1943, the Germans announced that they had discovered mass graves of Polish officers in the Katyn forest near Smolensk, in western Russian S.F.S.R. A total of 4,443 corpses were recovered that had apparently been shot from behind and then piled in stacks and buried. Investigators identified the corpses as the Polish officers who had been interned at a Soviet prison camp near Smolensk and accused the Soviet authorities of having executed the prisoners in May 1940. In response to these charges, the Soviet government claimed that the Poles had been engaged in construction work west of Smolensk in 1941 and the invading German army had killed them after overrunning that area in August 1941. But both German and Red Cross investigations of the Katyn corpses then produced firm physical evidence that the massacre took place in early 1940, at a time when the area was still under Soviet control.


The Polish government-in-exile in London requested that the International Committee of the Red Cross examine the graves and also asked the Soviet government to provide official reports on the fates of the remaining missing prisoners. The Soviet government refused these demands, and on April 25, 1943, the Soviets broke diplomatic relations with the Polish government in London. The Soviets then set about establishing a Polish government-in-exile composed of Polish communists.

The Katyn Massacre left a deep scar in Polish-Soviet relations during the remainder of the war and afterward. For Poles, Katyn became a symbol of the many victims of Stalinism. Although a 1952 U.S. congressional inquiry concluded that the Soviet Union had been responsible for the massacre, Soviet leaders insisted for decades that the Polish officers found at Katyn had been killed by the invading Germans in 1941.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Katyn-Massacre

 

[iguanaman]

Yes, yammering about “it was a long time ago” to try and excuse fascist death squads when you keep talking about how America invaded Canada in the War of 1812 is indeed laughable.

Meanwhile you are silent about the Katyn Massacre where Russians executed 1000's of Polish POW's and tried to lie about it. Despicable behavior and yet another atrocity of Stalinism. No wonder Putin loves Stalin so much. Stalin made a pact with Hitler and invaded Poland right alongside his stormtroopers and they got to murder Poles at will in the bargain. What a wonderful deal right?

 

[maxparrish]

I wonder when the day to commemorate the Katyn Massacre is?

After Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union concluded their Nonaggression Pact of 1939 and Germany invaded Poland from the west, Soviet forces occupied the eastern half of Poland. As a consequence of this occupation, tens of thousands of Polish military personnel fell into Soviet hands and were interned in prison camps inside the Soviet Union. But after the Germans invaded the Soviet Union (June 1941), the Polish government-in-exile (located in London) and the Soviet government agreed to cooperate against Germany, and a Polish army on Soviet territory was to be formed. The Polish general Władysław Anders began organizing this army, but when he requested that 15,000 Polish prisoners of war whom the Soviets had once held at camps near Smolensk be transferred to his command, the Soviet government informed him in December 1941 that most of those prisoners had escaped to Manchuria and could not be located.

The fate of the missing prisoners remained a mystery. Then on April 13, 1943, the Germans announced that they had discovered mass graves of Polish officers in the Katyn forest near Smolensk, in western Russian S.F.S.R. A total of 4,443 corpses were recovered that had apparently been shot from behind and then piled in stacks and buried. Investigators identified the corpses as the Polish officers who had been interned at a Soviet prison camp near Smolensk and accused the Soviet authorities of having executed the prisoners in May 1940. In response to these charges, the Soviet government claimed that the Poles had been engaged in construction work west of Smolensk in 1941 and the invading German army had killed them after overrunning that area in August 1941. But both German and Red Cross investigations of the Katyn corpses then produced firm physical evidence that the massacre took place in early 1940, at a time when the area was still under Soviet control.


The Polish government-in-exile in London requested that the International Committee of the Red Cross examine the graves and also asked the Soviet government to provide official reports on the fates of the remaining missing prisoners. The Soviet government refused these demands, and on April 25, 1943, the Soviets broke diplomatic relations with the Polish government in London. The Soviets then set about establishing a Polish government-in-exile composed of Polish communists.

The Katyn Massacre left a deep scar in Polish-Soviet relations during the remainder of the war and afterward. For Poles, Katyn became a symbol of the many victims of Stalinism. Although a 1952 U.S. congressional inquiry concluded that the Soviet Union had been responsible for the massacre, Soviet leaders insisted for decades that the Polish officers found at Katyn had been killed by the invading Germans in 1941.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Katyn-Massacre

Thread post 43...

April 13 is designated the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the 1940 Katyn Forest Massacre.
The massacre, which still casts a shadow over Polish-Russian relations, was a series of mass executions of Polish POW's, mainly military officers and policemen, carried out by the NKVD in April and May 1940.

 

[iguanaman]

Poland has never gotten over Russia crushing their empire multiple times over, as I already pointed out. They lost the old Lithuanian lands, then the Soviets humiliated and defeated Piludski to the point where any sort of independent Poland surviving at all was a “miracle”.

My how the tables have turned. Now the "mighty" Russian army depends on donkeys to supply the front lines....The Russians problem is you can no longer depend on piles of dead Russians to bring victory. No army in history has been better at losing oodles of men and equipment and just sending more to die until the enemy runs out of bullets. Ukraine is not running out of bullets and they can easily kill or maim another million Russian invaders without batting an eye.

 

[iguanaman]

Thread post 43...

April 13 is designated the Day of Remembrance of the Victims of the 1940 Katyn Forest Massacre.
The massacre, which still casts a shadow over Polish-Russian relations, was a series of mass executions of Polish POW's, mainly military officers and policemen, carried out by the NKVD in April and May 1940.

Yes I missed you post. It was a good one too.

 

[iguanaman]

So he’s not “rebuilding the USSR”, then. If he was it wouldn’t matter one way or another.

The USSR consisted on many conquered quasi-independent nations who had their leaders handpicked in Moscow. We called them "satellites". Belarus is satellite nation of the new USSR. It is being Russified as we speak too. That is a long honored tradition in Russia...conquer a country, enslave it's people, destroy its native culture and language, send many natives to Siberia and put Russians in their homes. Today we call that genocide but to Russia it is just being a good Russian. That's how the meme of "The only good Russian is a dead Russian" started and it has never been more true.

 

[maxparrish]

Russians are no more demons than Brits, French and US are angels. Lets cut out the sanctimonius bs. How many hundreds of thousands of cadavers did the angels from the west leave behind in Iraq? There is a war between Russia vs Nato/Eu and its proxy Ukraine. That's it. When the dust settles a later generation will see through the crap.

Your attitude is the same one expressed by Goering and other Nurenberg defendants, why they were no worse than their enemies who also left behind corpses, or as one Japanese war criminal put it, "It's war, so its okay".

In the 21st century, most civilized countries recognize that it's not okay to invade and conquer other countries under false pre-texts. It's not okay to kill their elected leaders, destroy entire villages, towns, and cities with their civilians because it's easier than actually fighting for them. It's not okay to intentionally target and destroy residential buildings, thermal plants, dams, hospitals, schools, sanitation facilities, shopping malls, and train stations loaded with civilians.

And its not okay to open fake corridors of evacuation for civilians and then purposely saturate them with artillery fire. Nor is it not okay to plant bombs in groups of pows to murder the lot of them, or to order that surrendering combatants are to be killed.

There is no doubt, among European and English-speaking nations there is NONE like the Russians in the 21st century. None as intentionally brutal, sadistic, uncaring, or inhumane as an official policy or military culture.

So do you dabble in Holocaust revisionism too?

 

[maxparrish]

My how the tables have turned. Now the "mighty" Russian army depends on donkeys to supply the front lines....The Russians problem is you can no longer depend on piles of dead Russians to bring victory. No army in history has been better at losing oodles of men and equipment and just sending more to die until the enemy runs out of bullets. Ukraine is not running out of bullets and they can easily kill or maim another million Russian invaders without batting an eye.

I would add, what Poles haven't gotten over isn't old wars in school history textbooks, it's over generational experiences of the 20th and 21st century. The Polish successful fight for independence after WW1, the Nazi-Soviet invasion and occupation in WW2, the 45 years of tributary state vassalhood under the USSR (Russia), the resistance of Solidarity and a rebirth of a nation with true sovereignty and independence in the early 1990s to date.

They know their 21st century enemy, and it isn't Germany or Ukraine.

 

[Tigerace117]

The USSR consisted on many conquered quasi-independent nations who had their leaders handpicked in Moscow. We called them "satellites". Belarus is satellite nation of the new USSR. It is being Russified as we speak too. That is a long honored tradition in Russia...conquer a country, enslave it's people, destroy its native culture and language, send many natives to Siberia and put Russians in their homes. Today we call that genocide but to Russia it is just being a good Russian. That's how the meme of "The only good Russian is a dead Russian" started and it has never been more true.

The US also calls fascist dictators “part of the free world”. America’s analysis skills are sorely lacking.



The US actively attempted to wipe out every single Native American culture for over a century. Spare me the posturing.

No, it started when America’s hero Adolf got his ass kicked and all those European fascists had to flee for their lives, actually.

 

[Tigerace117]

My how the tables have turned. Now the "mighty" Russian army depends on donkeys to supply the front lines....The Russians problem is you can no longer depend on piles of dead Russians to bring victory. No army in history has been better at losing oodles of men and equipment and just sending more to die until the enemy runs out of bullets. Ukraine is not running out of bullets and they can easily kill or maim another million Russian invaders without batting an eye.

America made extensive use of donkeys in Afghanistan, as has already been pointed out to you.

Except that’s blatantly untrue, a myth born out of Nazi generals desperate to handwave away the ass licking the Soviets gave them on the Eastern Front and American despair over the Third Reich’s defeat.

Ukraine hasn’t managed to accomplish anything of the sort in over three years of war.

 

[Tigerace117]

Meanwhile you are silent about the Katyn Massacre where Russians executed 1000's of Polish POW's and tried to lie about it. Despicable behavior and yet another atrocity of Stalinism. No wonder Putin loves Stalin so much. Stalin made a pact with Hitler and invaded Poland right alongside his stormtroopers and they got to murder Poles at will in the bargain. What a wonderful deal right?

The OUN killed five times as many Poles as died at Katyn. The Nazis killed another five times as many in the Intelligenzaktion alone. It’s fascinating how desperately y’all downplay 99 percent of what actually happened to the Poles during the Second World War in favor of simply wailing about Katyn.

America tries to lie about literal slavery not being “that bad” to this day, so spare me the posturing once again.

Ah, so you are saying Poland should be forced to give back all that valuable German land Stalin gave them?

 

[Tigerace117]

I never said that. Are you an American spending your time bolstering Russia?

The claim the Russians want to “rebuild the USSR” is a meme, not an assertion born of rational analysis.

 

[Rogue Valley]

@Juin never ever mentions the millions outright killed by various Russian leaders, or the millions of deportees to Siberian gulags (some of which still exist today in Russia as "penal colonies").

He avoids inconvenient truths at all costs.

 

[Tigerace117]

@Juin never ever mentions the millions outright killed by various Russian leaders, or the millions of deportees to Siberian gulags (some of which still exist today in Russia as "penal colonies").

He avoids inconvenient truths at all costs.

If the OUN’s German masters had succeeded in their war against Russia tens of millions upon tens of millions would have been murdered.

The fact they are honored as national heroes speaks volumes of modern Ukraine.

 

[j brown's body]

Russians are no more demons than Brits, French and US are angels. Lets cut out the sanctimonius bs. How many hundreds of thousands of cadavers did the angels from the west leave behind in Iraq? There is a war between Russia vs Nato/Eu and its proxy Ukraine. That's it. When the dust settles a later generation will see through the crap.

Russia recently invaded another country, violating their sovereignty, killing innocent people and kidnapoingbtheir children.

Otherwise, it's fine.

 

[iguanaman]

The OUN killed five times as many Poles as died at Katyn. The Nazis killed another five times as many in the Intelligenzaktion alone. It’s fascinating how desperately y’all downplay 99 percent of what actually happened to the Poles during the Second World War in favor of simply wailing about Katyn.

America tries to lie about literal slavery not being “that bad” to this day, so spare me the posturing once again.

Ah, so you are saying Poland should be forced to give back all that valuable German land Stalin gave them?

No I am saying that Stalin was a Hitler lover and Putin is now a Stalin lover who is copying the 3rd Reich in his invasion of Ukraine. It you don't like Nazi's stop supporting their biggest fans. Russia is fascist dictatorship and you need to start realizing that. There are more neo-nazi's in Russia than anywhere else and Putin supports them

Russia's long history of neo-Nazis​

What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists. Even as Russian diplomats condemned “fascists” in the Baltic states and Kremlin propagandists railed against imaginary “Ukronazis” in power in Kyiv, the Russian state was cultivating its own homegrown Nazis.

The roots of neo-Nazism in Putin’s Russia​

The origins of this relationship date to the late 1990s, when Russia was shaken by a wave of racist violence committed by neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. After Putin’s accession to the presidency in 2000, his regime exploited this development in two ways.

First, it used the neo-Nazi threat to justify the adoption of anti-extremism legislation, a longstanding demand of some Russian liberals. Ultimately, this legislation would be used to prosecute Russian democrats.

Second, the Kremlin launched “managed nationalism”, an attempt to co-opt and mobilise radical nationalist militants, including neo-Nazis, as a counterweight to an emerging anti-Putin coalition of democrats and leftist radicals.

Moving Together, a pro-Putin youth organisation notorious for its campaign against postmodernist literature, made the first move by reaching out to OB88, the most powerful skinhead gang in Russia.

This cooperation expanded in the aftermath of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution of 2004. To insulate Russia against the contagion of pro-democracy protest, the Kremlin transformed Moving Together into a more ambitious project called “Nashi”, or “Ours”.

As part of its preparations to confront a potential democratic uprising in Russia, Nashi enlisted football gang members, whose subculture overlapped with the neo-Nazi underground.

During 2005, Nashi’s thugs staged a series of raids on anti-Putin youth groups. The most violent attack, which left four left-wing activists in hospital, led to the arrest of the assailants. They were released after a visit to the police station from Nikita Ivanov, the Kremlin functionary who supervised the regime’s loyalist youth organisations.

The resulting scandal provoked a reconfiguration of “managed nationalism”. While Nashi distanced itself from football gangs, its radical militants migrated to two rival Kremlin proxies, the nationalist “Young Russia” group and the anti-immigration “Locals” group. These organisations became bridges between the neo-Nazi subculture and the Kremlin

https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis

 

[bomberfox]

Ukraine wants the matter in its rearview mirror. Ukraine wants the matter forgotten. If paying tribute leads to that end, then all the tributes the Poles want. But a designated Remembrance Day means instead of the matter in Ukraine's rearview mirror, it is now galloping ahead of Ukraine into its future.

Keep in mind also that the area of Poland where the genocide took place is in Ukraine. This was a part of Poland of interwar years that was ceded to the Ukrainian SSR in the Stalin post war settlement. So the Remembrance Day also keeps alive a Polish land claim on Ukraine

You seem rather interested in Ukraine losing land. Wonder why that is.

 

[Tigerace117]

No I am saying that Stalin was a Hitler lover and Putin is now a Stalin lover who is copying the 3rd Reich in his invasion of Ukraine. It you don't like Nazi's stop supporting their biggest fans. Russia is fascist dictatorship and you need to start realizing that. There are more neo-nazi's in Russia than anywhere else and Putin supports them

Russia's long history of neo-Nazis​

What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists. Even as Russian diplomats condemned “fascists” in the Baltic states and Kremlin propagandists railed against imaginary “Ukronazis” in power in Kyiv, the Russian state was cultivating its own homegrown Nazis.

The roots of neo-Nazism in Putin’s Russia​

The origins of this relationship date to the late 1990s, when Russia was shaken by a wave of racist violence committed by neo-Nazi skinhead gangs. After Putin’s accession to the presidency in 2000, his regime exploited this development in two ways.

First, it used the neo-Nazi threat to justify the adoption of anti-extremism legislation, a longstanding demand of some Russian liberals. Ultimately, this legislation would be used to prosecute Russian democrats.

Second, the Kremlin launched “managed nationalism”, an attempt to co-opt and mobilise radical nationalist militants, including neo-Nazis, as a counterweight to an emerging anti-Putin coalition of democrats and leftist radicals.

Moving Together, a pro-Putin youth organisation notorious for its campaign against postmodernist literature, made the first move by reaching out to OB88, the most powerful skinhead gang in Russia.

This cooperation expanded in the aftermath of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution of 2004. To insulate Russia against the contagion of pro-democracy protest, the Kremlin transformed Moving Together into a more ambitious project called “Nashi”, or “Ours”.

As part of its preparations to confront a potential democratic uprising in Russia, Nashi enlisted football gang members, whose subculture overlapped with the neo-Nazi underground.

During 2005, Nashi’s thugs staged a series of raids on anti-Putin youth groups. The most violent attack, which left four left-wing activists in hospital, led to the arrest of the assailants. They were released after a visit to the police station from Nikita Ivanov, the Kremlin functionary who supervised the regime’s loyalist youth organisations.

The resulting scandal provoked a reconfiguration of “managed nationalism”. While Nashi distanced itself from football gangs, its radical militants migrated to two rival Kremlin proxies, the nationalist “Young Russia” group and the anti-immigration “Locals” group. These organisations became bridges between the neo-Nazi subculture and the Kremlin

https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis

Stalin spent five years trying to build an anti Nazi “popular front ” in the mid 1930s. The idea that he was a “Hitler lover” is yet another blatant falsehood.

Dude, you are on record as saying it was a shame the Nazis didn’t win

The West mourns the defeat of Nazi Germany to this day.

 

[iguanaman]

Stalin spent five years trying to build an anti Nazi “popular front ” in the mid 1930s. The idea that he was a “Hitler lover” is yet another blatant falsehood.

Dude, you are on record as saying it was a shame the Nazis didn’t win

The West mourns the defeat of Nazi Germany to this day.

LOL It is common knowledge that Stalin was so fond of Hitler that he refused to believe his intelligence people when they told them Hitler was planning to invade Russia. Russia was unprepared when it happened and many were killed. Putin copies Hitler and like Trump most likely admires what he did or he would not do the same thing. I want Russia to lose now and always. They are a rogue State and a menace. Any Russians who have stayed since the invasion are all write offs. The decent Russians have all left the country.

Operation Barbarossa: How Stalin was Blindsided by Berlin​

Soviet leader Joseph Stalin refused to believe that his country was about to be invaded by Nazi Germany—until it happened with Operation Barbarossa.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/operation-barbarossa-how-stalin-was-blindsided-by-berlin/

 

[Tigerace117]

LOL It is common knowledge that Stalin was so fond of Hitler that he refused to believe his intelligence people when they told them Hitler was planning to invade Russia. Russia was unprepared when it happened and many were killed. Putin copies Hitler and like Trump most likely admires what he did or he would not do the same thing. I want Russia to lose now and always. They are a rogue State and a menace. Any Russians who have stayed since the invasion are all write offs. The decent Russians have all left the country.

Operation Barbarossa: How Stalin was Blindsided by Berlin​

Soviet leader Joseph Stalin refused to believe that his country was about to be invaded by Nazi Germany—until it happened with Operation Barbarossa.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/operation-barbarossa-how-stalin-was-blindsided-by-berlin/

Uh...no, that wasn’t because he was “so fond of Hitler”. It’s that he was sure the fascists wouldn’t dare strike first and with such overwhelming numbers.

The US, on the other hand, was immensely fond of Hitler, which is why American companies kept helping the Third Reich all the way until the Soviets took Berlin.

You wanted the Nazis to win, yes. I already pointed that out. Unfortunately for you and the West, the Soviets utterly crushed them.

 

[iguanaman]

Uh...no, that wasn’t because he was “so fond of Hitler”. It’s that he was sure the fascists wouldn’t dare strike first and with such overwhelming numbers.

The US, on the other hand, was immensely fond of Hitler, which is why American companies kept helping the Third Reich all the way until the Soviets took Berlin.

You wanted the Nazis to win, yes. I already pointed that out. Unfortunately for you and the West, the Soviets utterly crushed them.

Hitler , Stalin and Putin are like 3 peas in a pod. All of them invaded Europe for the glory of the Reich/Mother Russia. All of them would not settle for anything but total domination. "Victory at any price."

 

[Tigerace117]

Hitler , Stalin and Putin are like 3 peas in a pod. All of them invaded Europe for the glory of the Reich/Mother Russia. All of them would not settle for anything but total domination. "Victory at any price."

The US had attacked significantly more countries over the last twenty years than Putin has.

If your claims were even remotely true there wouldn’t be any Germans left in eastern Germany.

 

[iguanaman]

The US had attacked significantly more countries over the last twenty years than Putin has.

If your claims were even remotely true there wouldn’t be any Germans left in eastern Germany.

Putin is actively supporting the far right in what was once east Germany. That is his old stomping grounds from his KGB days and don't think he has forgotten that. He would like to take East Germany back too.

Why Vladimir Putin Is Embracing Germany’s Far Right​

Frustrated by Berlin’s robust response to his invasion of Ukraine, the Russian leader is seeking allies who could disrupt the consensus.

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...utin-russia-ukraine-germany-far-right/675838/

 

[Tigerace117]

Putin is actively supporting the far right in what was once east Germany. That is his old stomping grounds from his KGB days and don't think he has forgotten that. He would like to take East Germany back too.

Why Vladimir Putin Is Embracing Germany’s Far Right​

Frustrated by Berlin’s robust response to his invasion of Ukraine, the Russian leader is seeking allies who could disrupt the consensus.

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...utin-russia-ukraine-germany-far-right/675838/

If the Soviets had even been remotely equivalent to the Nazis there wouldn’t be any Germans left there in the first place.