Please take a look at this graph and explain Vermont, etc. Thanks!!

[Logophile]

Could you rephrase your last sentence to something I can understand. Do I consider, what, about breakthrough cases?

Do you consider the vaccinated cases of covid breakthroughs as in rare or infections as the norm?? Thanks!!

 

[Logophile]

Says the poster using numbers of increasing positive covid cases in a state along with their vaccination rate to try (and failing) to make a case that vaccines don't work. That is called rejecting information that shows why your original numbers aren't the "gotcha" you believe they are.

There was never any intent to play any game. You know, some of the left around here are like fire ants. Just mindless grouping, assuming everything is a some kind of partisan threat. Then they vent and "Trumpet" and the rest of the nonsense ad nauseum. These are the facts. The vaccines are not working well enough to open bars and restaurants with or without a covid passport. And it should not be "business as usual" predicated on what we know. And what we know is the vaccines are too weak to drop external precautions. It's that simple. Thanks!!

 

[roguenuke]

There was never any intent to play any game. You know, some of the left around here are like fire ants. Just mindless grouping, assuming everything is a some kind of partisan threat. Then they vent and "Trumpet" and the rest of the nonsense ad nauseum. These are the facts. The vaccines are not working well enough to open bars and restaurants with or without a covid passport. And it should not be "business as usual" predicated on what we know. And what we know is the vaccines are too weak to drop external precautions. It's that simple. Thanks!!

What we know is that the vaccines work to help prevent serious illness and death. Whether you mean to play a game or not, you are intentionally ignoring and refusing to acknowledge that part, which has been pointed out on this thread and others numerous times. The fact that this thread attempts to wrongly connect vaccinated people as being the main issue in the spread of covid shows a high level of disconnect with this thread and reality, which tells us that the main issue with Covid is hospitalizations and deaths.

Additionally, we know that there is denial at play, because when the numbers are pointed out, the excuse is "I don't believe/trust numbers", despite using numbers to try to present a wrong conclusion in the OP.

 

[Callen]

The vaccines are not working well enough to open bars and restaurants with or without a covid passport. And it should not be "business as usual" predicated on what we know. And what we know is the vaccines are too weak to drop external precautions. It's that simple. Thanks!!

I don't think that is true at all! Vaccines are about 90% effective in preventing illness and almost 100% effective in preventing hospitalization and death. That makes Covod not much worse than the seasonal flu......IF the unvaccinated get vaccinated. Meanwhile keep them out of the restaurants and bars,

 

[Logophile]

What we know is that the vaccines work to help prevent serious illness and death. Whether you mean to play a game or not, you are intentionally ignoring and refusing to acknowledge that part, which has been pointed out on this thread and others numerous times. The fact that this thread attempts to wrongly connect vaccinated people as being the main issue in the spread of covid shows a high level of disconnect with this thread and reality, which tells us that the main issue with Covid is hospitalizations and deaths.

Additionally, we know that there is denial at play, because when the numbers are pointed out, the excuse is "I don't believe/trust numbers", despite using numbers to try to present a wrong conclusion in the OP.

You know, because of the naivete of people that believe what you believe, I' am not able to retire the way I'd like to. I'm trying not to resent your foolishness. Thanks!!

 

[roguenuke]

You know, because of the naivete of people that believe what you believe, I' am not able to retire the way I'd like to. I'm trying not to resent your foolishness. Thanks!!

You can believe whatever you want to, but you are the one putting out info in this thread that is wrong or leaves out crucial information, like Covid hospitalizations and deaths in unvaccinated vs vaccinated.

 

[Logophile]

You can believe whatever you want to, but you are the one putting out info in this thread that is wrong or leaves out crucial information, like Covid hospitalizations and deaths in unvaccinated vs vaccinated.

That's changing rapidly as demonstrated. But that's okay. If you're a bar hopper, by all means enjoy. You can wave your covid passport at both the bouncer and the ambulance driver a few days later. Dual purpose. Thanks!!

 

[Parrish]

I'm amazed at the number of people that do not grasp how the vaccines work. They are not a "cure" at this point but they reduce the likelihood of serious illness or death if there is a breakthrough infection. The more people vaxxed means that herd immunity could be reached. Think about the vaccines we've taken for MMR, DPT, and the like. It's beyond me how people refuse the science of vaccines.

 

[roguenuke]

That's changing rapidly as demonstrated. But that's okay. If you're a bar hopper, by all means enjoy. You can wave your covid passport at both the bouncer and the ambulance driver a few days later. Dual purpose. Thanks!!

No it isn't, not from the information we have it isn't. But you also cannot make that determination if we talk about different, later variations, which mainly were able to develop due to the amount of unvaccinated refusing the vaccine. The logic in your posts is ridiculous and lacking severely.

There is no evidence that the vaccinated are even close to the same amount of unvaccinated when it comes to hospitalizations.

As for precautions, I'm taking them, even as vaccinated, because I understand that the unvaccinated (and some of my relatives are) are screwing us all over due to their selfishness.

 

[Logophile]

No it isn't, not from the information we have it isn't. But you also cannot make that determination if we talk about different, later variations, which mainly were able to develop due to the amount of unvaccinated refusing the vaccine. The logic in your posts is ridiculous and lacking severely.

There is no evidence that the vaccinated are even close to the same amount of unvaccinated when it comes to hospitalizations.

As for precautions, I'm taking them, even as vaccinated, because I understand that the unvaccinated (and some of my relatives are) are screwing us all over due to their selfishness.

It's CHANGING. It's OBVIOUS. Why do you think Israel is starting with a fourth booster?? Look, this discussion is going nowhere. Partisans just want to point a finger. That's all they want to do. Anyway, glad you're taking precautions. Thanks!!

 

[roguenuke]

It's CHANGING. It's OBVIOUS. Why do you think Israel is starting with a fourth booster?? Look, this discussion is going nowhere. Partisans just want to point a finger. That's all they want to do. Anyway, glad you're taking precautions. Thanks!!

It isn't changing at all. There are still less hospitalizations, less deaths when we compare like to like when an infected person is vaccinated vice unvaccinated. That is what the information we have shows us. That doesn't mean we just ignore those deaths and hospitalizations that are happening and still go further to try to reduce them.

 

[Parrish]

The reason we need boosters is because anti-vaccine folks REFUSE to get the vaccines.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Why are so many blue counties in red states failing to vaccinate?

Are the Trumpers denying them the vaccine?

Where are you getting your information from?

I just looked up the vaccination rates of Dallas/Ft.worth compared to Texas as a whole, Atlanta compared to Georgia as a whole, Miami compared to Florida as a whole.

All the big cities where most of the Democrats live have drastically higher rates of vaccination than the rest of the state, this holds true in every single case.

It’s clear based on all the data, especially using a county by county analysis, that refusal to vaccinate is mostly a Republican/Trump supporter phenomena.

Least Vaccinated U.S. Counties Have Something in Common: Trump Voters (Published 2021)

A Times analysis found that willingness to receive a vaccine and actual vaccination rates to date were both lower, on average, in counties that voted red in the 2020 presidential election.

www.nytimes.com

And this makes sense, on Fox News, AM radio, OANN, Newsmax, and even on this forum you have mostly Trump supporters and Republicans preaching an anti vax and anti mask position.

And let’s examine what you care about. You don’t care about people getting vaccinated. Based on your post it’s clear you care only about the damage to your party’s reputation. Well, it’s not my fault that your political allies are dumb as shit.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Partisans just want to point a finger. That's all they want to do. Anyway, glad you're taking precautions. Thanks!!

This is a partisan issue. This is a partisan issue because Trump supporters and republicans decided to make the issue of masks and vaccines a new weapon in their culture war against Democrats.

The problem is they are dead wrong.

And everyone else has the obligation to point the finger directly at Trump supporters and Republicans because they are mostly responsible for the lack of vaccination in the US. Republicans and Trump supporters are pursuing political policies that are literally killing people and the data proves it. And the reaction to this data from Republicans is to continue to lash out at others out of hate and spitefulness and to cling to idiotic 4chan/qanon memes.

I posted a chart at least 5 times that proves you wrong. It’s better for people to get vaccinated. Vermont’s cases, deaths, and hospitalizations when examined on a per capita basis proves it. I knew you’d ignore the chart, that’s why I posted it many times.

 

[Logophile]

This is a partisan issue. This is a partisan issue because Trump supporters and republicans decided to make the issue of masks and vaccines a new weapon in their culture war against Democrats.

The problem is they are dead wrong.

And everyone else has the obligation to point the finger directly at Trump supporters and Republicans because they are mostly responsible for the lack of vaccination in the US. Republicans and Trump supporters are pursuing political policies that are literally killing people and the data proves it. And the reaction to this data from Republicans is to continue to lash out at others out of hate and spitefulness and to cling to idiotic 4chan/qanon memes.

I posted a chart at least 5 times that proves you wrong. It’s better for people to get vaccinated. Vermont’s cases, deaths, and hospitalizations when examined on a per capita basis proves it. I knew you’d ignore the chart, that’s why I posted it many times.

This is such bull. Really, W, your post is imbecilic. It is NOT A Trump supporter/Republican culture war. I'm surrounded by Republicans, and they are ALL double vaccinated. ALL of them. Now i know how important it is for the very ultra-left to keep looking backward and to foment discord. It's part of the "brave new world" agenda, I guess. But trying to equate vaccinations with a culture war is like trying to equate two tractors with global climate change. There will be extremists on both sides of every issue ALWAYS. I consider you an extremist just by virtue of that remark, but that doesn't mean I consider ALL Democrats ultra-left or zealots. I know more independents and actually Democrats reluctant to get shots than Republicans. And the reason is pretty simple. Thanks!!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

This is such bull. Really, W, your post is imbecilic. It is NOT A Trump supporter/Republican culture war. I'm surrounded by Republicans, and they are ALL double vaccinated. ALL of them. Now i know how important it is for the very ultra-left to keep looking backward and to foment discord. It's part of the "brave new world" agenda, I guess. But trying to equate vaccinations with a culture war is like trying to equate two tractors with global climate change. There will be extremists on both sides of every issue ALWAYS. I consider you an extremist just by virtue of that remark, but that doesn't mean I consider ALL Democrats ultra-left or zealots. I know more independents and actually Democrats reluctant to get shots than Republicans. And the reason is pretty simple. Thanks!!

There is nothing partisan or extreme when it comes to looking at the data with respect to Vermont and noticing that if a state like Vermont has a super high rate of vaccination then it will also — on a per capita basis — have a super low rate of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Looking at this data and then declaring that we shouldn’t vaccinate is an example of extreme partisanship. Vermont proves vaccinations work. You should look at the data coming out of Vermont and admit to yourself and everyone else you’re wrong and you should now immediately begin advocating for more people to get vaccinated. But you’re not going to do that because ultimately at the end of the day you are an extreme partisan.

And yes it is a partisan issue. Republicans and Trump supporters made it a partisan issue. Republicans and Trump supporters are the ones pushing antivax propaganda. And Republicans and Trump supporters are mostly the ones refusing to get vaccinated:

Least Vaccinated U.S. Counties Have Something in Common: Trump Voters (Published 2021)

A Times analysis found that willingness to receive a vaccine and actual vaccination rates to date were both lower, on average, in counties that voted red in the 2020 presidential election.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Logophile]

The reason we need boosters is because anti-vaccine folks REFUSE to get the vaccines.

Well, this post wins the award for flat out ignorance. Thanks!!

 

[Logophile]

There is nothing partisan or extreme when it comes to looking at the data with respect to Vermont and noticing that if a state like Vermont has a super high rate of vaccination then it will also — on a per capita basis — have a super low rate of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. Looking at this data and then declaring that we shouldn’t vaccinate is an example of extreme partisanship. Vermont proves vaccinations work. You should look at the data coming out of Vermont and admit to yourself and everyone else you’re wrong and you should now immediately begin advocating for more people to get vaccinated. But you’re not going to do that because ultimately at the end of the day you are an extreme partisan.

And yes it is a partisan issue. Republicans and Trump supporters made it a partisan issue. Republicans and Trump supporters are the ones pushing antivax propaganda. And Republicans and Trump supporters are mostly the ones refusing to get vaccinated:

Least Vaccinated U.S. Counties Have Something in Common: Trump Voters (Published 2021)

A Times analysis found that willingness to receive a vaccine and actual vaccination rates to date were both lower, on average, in counties that voted red in the 2020 presidential election.

www.nytimes.com

W, how do you think Vermont gets a count of how many people are infected?? How do you think the authorities in Vermont KNOW that people are infected?? Thanks!!

 

[roguenuke]

W, how do you think Vermont gets a count of how many people are infected?? How do you think the authorities in Vermont KNOW that people are infected?? Thanks!!

Testing results are sent to state authorities, generally HHS departments, so that they can be compiled. You don't have to go to the hospital to be tested for covid. Some people have to be tested for jobs or to travel or go to events. Some have some symptoms, others may have to test due to quarantines or exposures. Some self report when they test positive, even if from an at home test.

 

[Logophile]

Testing results are sent to state authorities, generally HHS departments, so that they can be compiled. You don't have to go to the hospital to be tested for covid. Some people have to be tested for jobs or to travel or go to events. Some have some symptoms, others may have to test due to quarantines or exposures. Some self report when they test positive, even if from an at home test.

So, it would stand to reason that there are plenty of say, Vermonters who have had covid that never reported it. Didn't know, asymptomatic, etc. Thanks!!

 

[W_Heisenberg]

W, how do you think Vermont gets a count of how many people are infected?? How do you think the authorities in Vermont KNOW that people are infected?? Thanks!!

I don’t know and I don’t really care. I trust the data and I have no reason to doubt it. What I don’t trust is someone who doesn’t understand the concept of per capita and someone who refuses to admit their mistakes. Your original thesis, the thing that motivated you to create this thread has been thoroughly debunked.

If you think there is some reason to doubt Vermont’s data then show me your reasoning and the evidence supporting it and how it might impact a comparison between Vermont and the other states. And it would be helpful if you could do this without resorting to some idiotic qanon/4chan meme.

 

[roguenuke]

So, it would stand to reason that there are plenty of say, Vermonters who have had covid that never reported it. Didn't know, asymptomatic, etc. Thanks!!

Which would only increase the number of infections, but decrease the hospitalization and death rates. If there are more people infected than reported, identified, who are asymptomatic particularly among the vaccinated, then that only helps the arguments that a) the vaccine makes covid less deadly and gives a lower chance of dying and b) that the vaccinated should be masking up, which was put out a couple of months ago.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Thanks for making the case for everyone who has not gotten the vaccine. It's not proving to be the fix! It's not working as advertised and this has caused a huge lack of trust in those pushing the vaccine, pushing mask wearing, pushing shutdowns and social distancing. I suspect that it will improve if the politicians and medical talking heads get a little more open and honest. Fauci the man who gave us 10,000 differing opinions on everything covid, the man who help fund the Wuhan lab "gain of function" research and lied about it, has to go. He is a huge problem for those who are not getting the vaccine, TRUST, isn't Fauci.

It is sad both parties used this pandemic for political gain instead any real concern for the people. The left saw the pandemic as way to undermine Trump. Trump immediately fought back down playing the virus and focused on the only real solution which was a vaccine. The left shut down the country not to save lives but to make it look as if the country was cratering under Trump. The left went even as far as planting fear and doubt in the peoples mind about the vaccine because Trump had focused on the vaccine. Now "We the People" are paying with our lives as we support these 2 corrupt parties whose only interest is power and money not the people they are supposed to represent. Unfortunately a lot more people will have to die before the party sheep open their eyes to the truth. But their is a silver lining to this black cloud and that is we will reap what we have sown. Only then we might take back our government.

 

[Logophile]

Which would only increase the number of infections, but decrease the hospitalization and death rates. If there are more people infected than reported, identified, who are asymptomatic particularly among the vaccinated, then that only helps the arguments that a) the vaccine makes covid less deadly and gives a lower chance of dying and b) that the vaccinated should be masking up, which was put out a couple of months ago.

Actually, what it does is put Vermont on an estimated basis in line with the rest of the nation in terms of covid symptoms versus asymptomatics -without serious ramifications - on a a percentage basis prior to vaccine availability. But that's not really the issue. The issue is Vermont should have reached herd immunity. And it hasn't. And it won't. That's the real issue. And regardless of how earnest you are in terms of vaccine efficacy, it's not working as planned, unless the plan is to expose everybody to covid on the basis that they - hopefully - won't succumb because of a vaccination, and thereby reach herd immunity, which won't work either because this virus is a repeat offender and mutates. So. back to the original premise: N95 masks. Thanks!!

 

[Callen]

it would stand to reason that there are plenty of say, Vermonters who have had covid that never reported it. Didn't know, asymptomatic, et

, what it does is put Vermont on an estimated basis in line with the rest of the nation in terms of covid symptoms versus asymptomatics -without serious symptoms -

Why do you assume that is only true in Vermont. The same "theory" would apply to all the States in those charts.