Please someone explain

[Juiposa]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

And the same rule applies to the OP.

Dismissed.

 

[Juiposa]

And the same rule applies to the OP.

Dismissed.

Everything I posted here.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/100157-arguments-gun-control-8.html

 

[Goshin]

Everything I posted here.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/100157-arguments-gun-control-8.html

The number of people shot in America annually is more like 30,000. Roughly half are suicides. Around 1500 are accidents. The rest are mostly murders, along with some police shootings and self-defense shootings.

Again, if you're going to demand factual posts, check your facts first please.

 

[Arcana XV]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

No proof, just a theory of mine, but I don't believe that stricter gun control would change much to the statistics in the US. The gun culture there and in other developed countries that allow citizens to own guns is just completely different.

 

[Grim17]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

All I will say is this... Unlike the US, where it's written in the constitution that citizens have the right to purchase and own guns, in most countries it's illegal to own guns or hand guns, and has been that way forever. Enforcing gun control laws in countries where guns have always been illegal, is quite a different thing than in a country where guns have always been legal, and exist in abundance.

If you restrict gun ownership or outlaw hand guns all together in the US, that will force those who own them legally (law abiding citizens) to give them up and prevent them from purchasing them, while the criminals who own them illegally will keep their guns and purchase more from those who sell them illegally. When a criminal with a gun knows that a person they are considering victimizing, might also be armed, it serves as a deterrent. On the other hand, if a criminal knows that there's virtually no chance that person has a gun, it make their crimes all the more easy and enticing.

I know that wasn't what you asked for, but I just had to throw in my 2 cents.

 

[Helvidius]

Do you have any idea how large the underground market for guns is in the United States? It is enormous.

 

[Gargantuan]

I believe that assault rifles/military grade weaponry (grenades, LAWs, landmines) should be not allowed for the civilian population. Handguns, shotguns, rifles, sure. And background checks/no gun show loophole is necessary.

 

[mpg]

impossible to prove, therefore worthless thread

 

[The Giant Noodle]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

Ever been to the near South and near West sides of Chicago? :lol: If you are out after dark in the summer and youre white..... youre going to get shot at. Same with Detroit and parts of St. Louis. The more I think of it, anywhere were there is a large black population.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

Everything I posted here.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/100157-arguments-gun-control-8.html

If your "proof" for this thread is simply linking to another thread, you shouldn't have made this one. It's called a dupe thread.

 

[Goshin]

The LA Times had an article about the The European disdain for America violence but shouldn't spend too much time congratulating themselves. In 2000 the rate at which people where assaulted was higher in England, Scotland, Finland, Denmark and Sweden than in The United States. In the decade since England banned all private possessions of gun the number of gun crimes has gone up.Some of the worst examples of mass gun violence has occurred in Europe from students and teachers killed in Germany, 14 legislators shot in Switzerland to 8 city council members being shot outside of Paris.
Just recently a taxi driver in Cumbria, England killed 12 people and wounded 11.

Two Little Square Black Dogs: I do not have a gun... I am not a murderer

Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.

The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

In the UK, there are 2,034 offences per 100,000 people, way ahead of second-placed Austria with a rate of 1,677.

Read more: The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. | Mail Online

The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Violent crime in the US is in decline....

United StatesThe United States Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) counts five categories of crime as violent crimes: murder, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault. According to BJS figures, the rate of violent crime victimization in the United States declined by more than two thirds between the years 1994 and 2009.[9] 7.9% of sentenced prisoners in federal prisons on September 30, 2009 were in for violent crimes.[10] 52.4% of sentenced prisoners in state prisons at yearend 2008 were in for violent crimes.[10] 21.6% of convicted inmates in jails in 2002 (latest available data by type of offense) were in for violent crimes.[11]

The homocide rate (per capita) in England and Wales was 9.1 in the year 1900, a time when gun control laws were relatively lax. In 2009, when gun laws are of draconian strictness, the homicide rate is 14.1
This is from an official parliament report. http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf


I think I just blew your premise out of the water. Why would America want to adopt stricter, UK-style gun control when available evidence indicates that rates of violent crime will INCREASE?

 

[Jerry]

Everyone says that enacting a stronger gun control will not solve the huge murder rate. Nor will it help with the nearly 10'000 people who are shot every year in the US.

So I want someone to explain with full proof why nearly every other developed country that has gun control, also has a lower murder rate.

No link to credible proof I dismiss your post.

EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates
In Washington, the best defense is self-defense
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES

More guns in law-abiding hands mean less crime. The District of Columbia proves the point.

<snip>

Few who lived in Washington during the 1970s can forget the upswing in crime that started right after the ban was originally passed. In the five years before the 1977 ban, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 murders per 100,000. In the five years after the gun ban went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. One fact is particularly hard to ignore: D.C.'s murder rate fluctuated after 1976 but only once fell below what it was in 1976 before the ban. That aberration happened years later, in 1985.

This correlation between the D.C. gun ban and diminished safety was not a coincidence. Look at the Windy City. Immediately after Chicago banned handguns in 1982, the murder rate, which had been falling almost continually for a decade, started to rise. Chicago's murder rate rose relative to other large cities as well. The phenomenon of higher murder rates after gun bans are passed is not just limited to the United States. Every single time a country has passed a gun ban, its murder rate soared.

<snip>

Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive
Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.
Din B. Kates* and Gary Mauser**

The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

Concealed carry in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Criminals generally want easy targets. Having a gun makes you a harder target. When you're in a population which carries, you are safer even if you don't carry a gun yourself, because a criminal has no way of knowing if you're carrying concealed or not and doesn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

***
Those other countries have lower crime rates for purely economic reasons. Like Ireland, their crime rates could be reduced further still had they free access to firearms.

 

[Juiposa]

Two Little Square Black Dogs: I do not have a gun... I am not a murderer



UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph



The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Violent crime in the US is in decline....




The homocide rate (per capita) in England and Wales was 9.1 in the year 1900, a time when gun control laws were relatively lax. In 2009, when gun laws are of draconian strictness, the homicide rate is 14.1
This is from an official parliament report. http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf


I think I just blew your premise out of the water. Why would America want to adopt stricter, UK-style gun control when available evidence indicates that rates of violent crime will INCREASE?

Interesting info, but still doesn't tell me why this is happening. Maybe what mpg said, it's inexplicable.

 

[Goshin]

Well, Juiposa, my Canadian cousin, you now have at least two well-referenced posts refuting your theory, and you have yet to post anything substantive supporting yours.

Ready to call it a night?

 

[The Giant Noodle]

Two Little Square Black Dogs: I do not have a gun... I am not a murderer



UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph



The intentional homicide rate shows North America is lower than Eastern Europe, and also lower than the world average, and FAR lower than MANY other regions in the world.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Violent crime in the US is in decline....




The homocide rate (per capita) in England and Wales was 9.1 in the year 1900, a time when gun control laws were relatively lax. In 2009, when gun laws are of draconian strictness, the homicide rate is 14.1
This is from an official parliament report. http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf


I think I just blew your premise out of the water. Why would America want to adopt stricter, UK-style gun control when available evidence indicates that rates of violent crime will INCREASE?

So basically.... everywhere blacks are is much more dangerous. Starting to see a patern here.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Freedom Index : Find Freedom!

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So here is what I did. I pasted both tables into an excel spread sheet. Eliminated countries that didn't exist in one or the other table and then ranked them based on the remaining countries. So I ended up with a list of 42 countries with their murder rates and their gun freedom rating. Then, I found the difference between the rankings. A negative difference meant the gun freedom ranking was lower than the murder ranking and a positive was a murder ranking was lower than the gun freedom ranking. When you average the differences you get 0 (zero). That means there is absolutely no correlation between the murder rate and the gun freedom ranking. Some countries with a lot of gun control had higher murder rates and some countries with a lot of gun control had low murder rates. The same was true for the countries that had less gun control. Some had high murder rates and some had low murder rates.

As you can see from this picture (sorry about it being so fuzzy), El Salvador has the most gun freedom of the countries ranked and middle of the road murder ranking, yet Guatemala has the #4 ranking for gun freedom and the #6 ranking for murder rates. Just two examples of how the murder ranking and the gun freedom ranking are not correlated.

 

[Juiposa]

Well, Juiposa, my Canadian cousin, you now have at least two well-referenced posts refuting your theory, and you have yet to post anything substantive supporting yours.

Ready to call it a night?

Absolutely, still in favour of gun control. Don't know why I am making such a fuss about, as you Americans killing each other is going to affect my life at all ^_^

 

[Juiposa]

Freedom Index : Find Freedom!

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So here is what I did. I pasted both tables into an excel spread sheet. Eliminated countries that didn't exist in one or the other table and then ranked them based on the remaining countries. So I ended up with a list of 42 countries with their murder rates and their gun freedom rating. Then, I found the difference between the rankings. A negative difference meant the gun freedom ranking was lower than the murder ranking and a positive was a murder ranking was lower than the gun freedom ranking. When you average the differences you get 0 (zero). That means there is absolutely no correlation between the murder rate and the gun freedom ranking. Some countries with a lot of gun control had higher murder rates and some countries with a lot of gun control had low murder rates. The same was true for the countries that had less gun control. Some had high murder rates and some had low murder rates.

As you can see from this picture (sorry about it being so fuzzy), El Salvador has the most gun freedom of the countries ranked and middle of the road murder ranking, yet Guatemala has the #4 ranking for gun freedom and the #6 ranking for murder rates. Just two examples of how the murder ranking and the gun freedom ranking are not correlated.

I couldn't help but notice none of those are developed countries ^_^

 

[Goshin]

Absolutely, still in favour of gun control. Don't know why I am making such a fuss about, as you Americans killing each other is going to affect my life at all ^_^

Ah. So your viewpoint is completely impervious to facts then? Doesn't matter that the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the USA, despite all that gun control? Not important that the homicide rate in the UK rose almost 50% from the days of little gun control to the modern draconian forms? You offer no proof of your premise, ignore evidence to the contrary, but still cling to it?

Ah well.

Hoser.

:mrgreen:

 

[ksu_aviator]

I couldn't help but notice none of those are developed countries ^_^

None? Russia, Brazil, Colombia...none of those are developed?

Just tell me this, how would a developed country change human nature? There are two primary motives for murder, money and love. How is that changed if the nation is "developed."

 

[dontworrybehappy]

Absolutely, still in favour of gun control. Don't know why I am making such a fuss about, as you Americans killing each other is going to affect my life at all ^_^

And I laugh when Canadians kill each other. Damn good thing you have draconian self defense (gun) laws. I'd hate to see the slaughter house Canada would be with people being able to defend themselves.

Then how about you don't worry about us?

If this is your definition of caring about the USA then don't give a **** about us ok? Thanks.

Ten bucks says you're just a troll anyway. I give you three months here and you'll be gone.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

I couldn't help but notice none of those are developed countries ^_^

And what is your point man? He did some work on statistics and THATS all you can say??

Absolutely, still in favour of gun control. Don't know why I am making such a fuss about, as you Americans killing each other is going to affect my life at all ^_^

Pretty freakin ignorant on your opinion on this whole topic. Look, it depends on culture too.

 

[Juiposa]

Ah. So your viewpoint is completely impervious to facts then? Doesn't matter that the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the USA, despite all that gun control? Not important that the homicide rate in the UK rose almost 50% from the days of little gun control to the modern draconian forms? You offer no proof of your premise, ignore evidence to the contrary, but still cling to it?

Ah well.

Hoser.

:mrgreen:

We have gun control here in Canada, and there are rarely any murders (except in Peel, ****s crazy) , so it works here. Thus I like it. It may or may not work in other countries, but I really only care if I'm going to be shot or not.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Juiposa, you have a bad habit of posting threads ranting about America when your facts are completely wrong. Other posters have already highlighted how they're wrong in this case, so I won't be an echo chamber.

Didn't you just say, like, yesterday, that you "wouldn't make that mistake again?"

It really doesn't make you look very enlightened to be consistently wrong and bigoted against you country you clearly know nothing about.