Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on[W:156]

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

I have nothing against casual sex at all. I'm probably the poster girl for that "sex positive" motto you keep mentioning. My initial participation in this thread was simple curiosity and then amusement at the idea that picking up women can actually be taught. I'm a woman. I know what it takes to get me into bed. There is not a man alive that can teach the wrong man how to do that. The right one doesn't need teaching. He already knows. It's not something that can be taught. All these guys are doing is learning how to handle the rejection they will get from 100 women before they find the one that will say yes. :lol:

And yes, women tend to flock to a specific kind of man. I won't argue with you on that. My problem is with the idea that men can actually learn how to be that kind of man. I really don't think that's possible.

Mathematically speaking, I'm sure that there's a certain grain of truth to it. After all, the man who pursues 100 women over the course of 10 hours, and ultimately scores 1 of them, is doing far better, objectively speaking, than the man who pursues 10 women over the course of 100 hours and gets none of them.

The level of self-confidence required to be so completely forward and emotionally detached from one's target probably does go a long way towards granting success (with the right kind of woman) as well. This is especially the case given the lightning fast relationship transactions which tend to be favored by modern "hook-up culture."

It seems to be that cold calculus which many women are rejecting here. They don't like thinking of themselves as being something so trivial.

Well, I'm sorry, but in a "casual" context, it's really kind of hard for them to be anything but.

You can't very well have romance and emotionless animal rutting for its own sake at the same time. The two are, quite frankly, at cross purposes. :shrug:

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Mathematically speaking, I'm sure that there's a certain grain of truth to it. After all, the man who pursues 100 women over the course of 10 hours, and ultimately scores 1 of them, is doing far better, objectively speaking, than the man who pursues 10 women over the course of 100 hours and gets none of them.

The level of self-confidence required to be so completely forward and emotionally detached from one's target probably does go a long way towards granting success (with the right kind of woman) as well. This is especially the case given the lightning fast relationship transactions which tend to be favored by modern "hook-up culture."

Though... As I said before, legalized prostitution would render this point moot, and probably result in a lot fewer cranky young men in general. :lol:

Hell! It might even result in fewer STDs, given that such a system were properly regulated. You're a lot less likely to catch (and subsequently spread) something from a professional in a clean brothel, than from some random bar/club/dating site shank who'll probably be too drunk to even insist on wearing a condom by the time you get her to bed, after all. :shrug:

 

[Ryan5]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on




This guy is frankly best I've ever heard. I actually hate (and have always) hated the 90's PUA community. I never needed it but I always suspected there were guys like Janka out there that were aware of the PUA community but never thought it great or legitimate as well.


It adds up perfectly with what I've seen. I have a next door neighbor who makes 100k a year (we're both in our twenties). Decent guy. Good guy. Treats this PUA stuff as his own personal religion and never shuts up about it. He never gets any woman above a 5 with his lame lines of comedic enterprise. He has no carnality. He's all mechanics and no raw. In other words, his 100k a year credentials don't help him either (nor does probably seeing me who makes significantly less money bring home better looking women probably do him a world of mental health either.)

This Janka guy is right on.

 

[foadi]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

This thread and the "uber socially conservative responses of outrage" in it is a perfect example of why social conservatism is basically in modern times representative of those who are culturally left behind in their particular bubble worlds of long gone social conservatism that doesn't apply to the modern world.

I mean just look at the responses by these people who actually believe they're "Spot on" in their observations.

-"Oh look at all the losers who pay for PUA crap". Nobody pays for this ****. It's free and it's called youtube. Just wow. The ignorance is beyond floor-able.

-"Those PUA guys are just assholes and sexist". Then every single straight guy with a smartphone is both an asshole and rampantly sexist. Most of this PUA stuff from the 90's is the norm now due to smartphones and various dating apps.


Another amazing aspect to these idiot responses of sexism that is both amazing and stunning at the same time is that women are just as bad, just as promiscuous as the asshole who's having anonymous sex with them in his apartment. She is no better than he is. The nurse that ****s a guy she met off plenty of fish or OKcupid is no better or less sexually liberal than the guy plowing her into his bed. She opened her legs to him. She is actually the initiator. The irony is astounding. Just as well because with this guy in particular, all the NYC women he was fcking were obviously educated rich girls who "knew better" but slept with him anyways.


The very women sitting on internet sex forums attacking men like in the video as evil sexist pigs are the very NYC ultra educated-esq women that are in the guys apartment moaning later that night. I guess they just put their righteous feminism on the dresser while he fills them up then get back to attacking him as being a sexist.

True, I know of a few older guys who used to attend Ross Jeffries seminars back in the 90's, but they're all in their 50's now. Otherwise, don't know of anyone who has paid for PUA stuff, it is all freely available online.

My main exposure to the PUA movement is from guys I have met overseas, primarily in Colombia and the Philippines. I'm not a PUA, mind you, I go to those places to party like Charlie Sheen on the cheap. But have met a bunch of cool guys in those places and they seem to be getting a ridiculous amount of action. Not the "losers" and "dorks" described in this thread. There are a bunch of free online forums where these guys exchange strategies, and obviously youtube videos as well. No need to pay for any PUA literature in the 2010's.

 

[sangha]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

This. A lot of this resent seems based on the assumption that women are somehow obligated to sleep with them. And they wonder why they can't get laid while whining about how women are obligated to sleep with them. Gee, I wonder.

There's also the element of "they're having sex with lots of men, but not me"

It's the overriding theme of the Angry Nice Guy

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Or, rather, just calling out condescending and conceited, self-serving nonsense for what it really is. :shrug:

Again, any rational explanation as to why it's seemingly "okay" to pick apart PUAs for simply trying to get laid (a 'good' and 'noble' endeavor according to the likes of S&M), while any wayward word against the behaviour of the average "party girl" is apparently indicative of "slut shaming" and therefore a taboo to be avoided at all costs?

Yea... I thought not. :lol:

 

[foadi]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Though... As I said before, legalized prostitution would render this point moot, and probably result in a lot fewer cranky young men in general. :lol:

Hell! It might even result in fewer STDs, given that such a system were properly regulated. You're a lot less likely to catch (and subsequently spread) something from a professional in a clean brothel, than from some random bar/club/dating site shank who'll probably be too drunk to even insist on wearing a condom by the time you get her to bed, after all. :shrug:

For legal prostitution, I find the bar/lounge setting far more comfortable than the brothel scene. Can just sit back, relax, have a few drinks, chat up the girls and screen them before making a decision, if you don't see anyone you like then on to the next bar. Whereas brothels are heavy pressure, quick in and out, no GFE, and not very fun.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

For legal prostitution, I find the bar/lounge setting far more comfortable than the brothel scene. Can just sit back, relax, have a few drinks, chat up the girls and screen them before making a decision, if you don't see anyone you like then on to the next bar. Whereas brothels are heavy pressure, quick in and out, no GFE, and not very fun.

Couldn't say from experience, I'm afraid. :lol:

I've only been in one. Frankly, I only drunkenly blundered into that one by accident while I was overseas anyway.

It was a lounge set-up, I believe. However, it was also Turkish, and rather poorly run.

A couple of Iraqi guys approached me asking about my nationality, and I promptly got the Hell out of dodge. :lol:

 

[sangha]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Or, rather, just calling out condescending and conceited, self-serving nonsense for what it really is. :shrug:

Again, any rational explanation as to why it's seemingly "okay" to pick apart PUAs for simply trying to get laid (a 'good' and 'noble' endeavor according to the likes of S&M), while any wayward word against the behaviour of the average "party girl" is apparently indicative of "slut shaming" and therefore a taboo to be avoided at all costs?

Yea... I thought not. :lol:

Seriously? You can't see the explanation and you consider yourself intelligent?

The avg "party girl" hanging out at the club isn't pretending to be something she's not in order to get laid. I can't believe anyone is so obtuse that they don't understand how poorly "fakers" are perceived by most people. Even you have noted how these men are basically reinventing themselves, how much time and effort it takes, and you have expressed a lack of respect (to say the least) for men who put so much into something (ie casual sex) that really isn't worth all that effort

And the "party girl" is not a lifestyle society views with respect either so your whole "it's so unfair that those women are treated so well, and those men treated so poorly" whiny shtick has as much to do with reality as an episode of one of those Real Wives shows

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Or, rather, just calling out condescending and conceited, self-serving nonsense for what it really is. :shrug:

Again, any rational explanation as to why it's seemingly "okay" to pick apart PUAs for simply trying to get laid (a 'good' and 'noble' endeavor according to the likes of S&M), while any wayward word against the behaviour of the average "party girl" is apparently indicative of "slut shaming" and therefore a taboo to be avoided at all costs?

Yea... I thought not. :lol:

Well, firstly, the words you're quoting as though they're mine, I don't believe I've ever used.

And secondly, we've discussed the nuance -- or at least I have, dragging you into the idea that the world isn't Gotham kicking and screaming -- of why women make the sexual choices they do, which are numerous. Some good, some bad.

But in your ceaseless effort to shove the world into something the size of your immediate field of vision, I don't really expect honesty of you anyway.

Although it's worth noting that you never really argue anything so much as try to shame everyone, while being shockingly hypocritical yourself at the same time. Really, how do you do that? It's impressive.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Seriously? You can't see the explanation and you consider yourself intelligent?

The avg "party girl" hanging out at the club isn't pretending to be something she's not in order to get laid. I can't believe anyone is so obtuse that they don't understand how poorly "fakers" are perceived by most people. Even you have noted how these men are basically reinventing themselves, how much time and effort it takes, and you have expressed a lack of respect (to say the least) for men who put so much into something (ie casual sex) that really isn't worth all that effort

And the "party girl" is not a lifestyle society views with respect either so your whole "it's so unfair that those women are treated so well, and those men treated so poorly" whiny shtick has as much to do with reality as an episode of one of those Real Wives shows

Well, I hate to break it to you Sangha, but "being themselves" isn't likely to get these guys any further than adopting a "larger than life" persona. If the real thing was getting the job done, they wouldn't have had to resort to other means in the first place.

For that matter, who the Hell cares about sincerity? :lol:

I mean... This is "casual sex" we're talking about here, not finding your freaking "soul mate." Sincerity went out the window the moment you committed to that goal.

The situation is really no different than a job interview, or sales pitch. You tell your potential associate what they want to hear, and portray yourself in such a manner as to make your proposal most acceptable, in order to achieve the greatest chances of success.

That's really all there is to it.

For that matter, why on Earth is it intrinsically more "moral" for a woman to spread her legs for some jockish outgoing stud simply because he comes by it "naturally," than it is for her to do so with some other guy, who's a bit more calculating in his swagger? Neither one really cares about her as a person, or intends to know her for much more than a few hours after they "seal the deal."

Again, the only real issue here seems to be that some women don't like the idea of men having that level of control over the tempo of sexual interaction. They want to be the sole arbiters.

To that, I say "tough ****." If women choose to say "yes" to these men (which a great many do), it's on them, no one else.

You're also absolutely correct. I don't have a terribly high opinion of Pick-up artists. I don't have a high opinion of their female counterparts either. I frankly think they kind of deserve one another.

However, that's not what we saw in this thread. Rather, we saw a bunch of threatened feminists viciously attack men for doing things they tend to think are perfectly acceptable when done by a "liberated" woman.

You'd better believe that I called them out on it as such! :lol:

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Dude's wearing sunglasses in a dark room

What's with the glasses?

Too cool to take the sunglasses off... Is he 13?

and they just end up wearing sunglasses inside. :lol:

He's standing in front of a projector. If he does that regularly to earn money, then sunglasses are probably a necessity to avoid damage to his eyes. A blind pick-up artist would send the wrong message. :lol:

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Well, firstly, the words you're quoting as though they're mine, I don't believe I've ever used.

And secondly, we've discussed the nuance -- or at least I have, dragging you into the idea that the world isn't Gotham kicking and screaming -- of why women make the sexual choices they do, which are numerous. Some good, some bad.

But in your ceaseless effort to shove the world into something the size of your immediate field of vision, I don't really expect honesty of you anyway.

Although it's worth noting that you never really argue anything so much as try to shame everyone, while being shockingly hypocritical yourself at the same time. Really, how do you do that? It's impressive.

You're not exactly one to talk about "shaming" people there, Smoke.

Just sayin'... :lol:

As far as "nuance" is concerned, none is really relevant to the point I'm making here anyway.

 

[sangha]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Well, I hate to break it to you Sangha, but "being themselves" isn't likely to get these guys any further than adopting a "larger than life" persona. If the real thing was getting the job done, they wouldn't have had to resort to other means in the first place.

For that matter, who the Hell cares about sincerity? :lol:

I mean... This is "casual sex" we're talking about here, not finding your freaking "soul mate." Sincerity went out the window the moment you committed to that goal.

The situation is really no different than a job interview, or sales pitch. You tell your potential associate what they want to hear, and portray yourself in such a manner as to make your proposal most acceptable, in order to achieve the greatest chances of success.

That's really all there is to it.

For that matter, why on Earth is it intrinsically more "moral" for a woman to spread her legs for some jockish outgoing stud simply because he comes by it "naturally," than it is for her to do so with some other guy, who's a bit more calculating in his swagger? Neither one really cares about her as a person, or intends to know her for much more than a few hours after they "seal the deal."

Again, the only real issue here seems to be that some women don't like the idea of men having that level of control over the tempo of sexual interaction. They want to be the sole arbiters.

To that, I say "tough ****." If women choose to say "yes" to these men (which a great many do), it's on them, no one else.

You're also absolutely correct. I don't have a terribly high opinion of Pick-up artists. I don't have a high opinion of their female counterparts either. I frankly think they kind of deserve one another.

However, that's not what we saw in this thread. Rather, we saw a bunch of threatened feminists viciously attack men for doing things they tend to think are perfectly acceptable when done by a "liberated" woman.

You'd better believe that I called them out on it as such! :lol:

I have no idea why you think that your blather makes any sense. You seem to think you've countered what I said but it's obvious that you reinforced my claim that it's delusional to think that the party girls get some kind of pass or that people think they're more moral than PUA's.

And yet, as delusional as it is, you think it's true.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

I have no idea why you think that your blather makes any sense. You seem to think you've countered what I said but it's obvious that you reinforced my claim that it's delusional to think that the party girls get some kind of pass or that people think they're more moral than PUA's.

And yet, as delusional as it is, you think it's true.

Kindly point to any criticism of contemporary female sexual behavior coming from a poster in this thread other than myself, or possibly Ryan. :roll:

 

[sangha]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Kindly point to any criticism of contemporary female sexual behavior coming from a poster in this thread other than myself, or possibly Ryan. :roll:

Kindly point to anyone being accused of slut shaming in any thread by anyone.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Kindly point to anyone being accused of slut shaming in any thread by anyone.

:lamo

 

[sangha]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

:lamo

I accept your surrender

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

Yea. Sure you do. :lol:

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

You're not exactly one to talk about "shaming" people there, Smoke.

Just sayin'... :lol:

As far as "nuance" is concerned, none is really relevant to the point I'm making here anyway.

I'm pretty clear and perfectly consisent. All I do is repeatedly call you out on your near-constant spin and dishonestly.

The fact that you don't think nuance is relevant to human sexuality or psychology is exactly the issue.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

He's standing in front of a projector. If he does that regularly to earn money, then sunglasses are probably a necessity to avoid damage to his eyes. A blind pick-up artist would send the wrong message. :lol:

I've seen a crap ton of people who deal with projectors regularly. Never seen that before.

I mean, you just don't aim it at your face. Put a book under it or something. I don't buy that.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

I'm pretty clear and perfectly consisent. All I do is repeatedly call you out on your near-constant spin and dishonestly.

The fact that you don't think nuance is relevant to human sexuality or psychology is exactly the issue.

No spin, and no dishonesty. If casual sex and the generally self-serving behavior that surrounds it is not only acceptable, but to be encouraged, when one group does it, it's acceptable when other groups do it as well.

It's just that simple.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

No spin, and no dishonesty. If casual sex and the generally self-serving behavior that surrounds it is not only acceptable, but to be encouraged, when one group does it, it's acceptable when other groups do it as well.

It's just that simple.

It would be, if I'd ever said anything like that. But I haven't. Because it isn't just that simple, as much as your mind can't seem to handle that idea.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

It would be, if I'd ever said anything like that. But I haven't. Because it isn't just that simple, as much as your mind can't seem to handle that idea.

By all means, please elaborate on how it is not. :roll:

I believe your exact words to me on several occasions have been "there's nothing wrong with wanting sex," along with things along the lines of "they can do that, so long as its consensual."

Well... How do PUAs and their quarry not fall under that general umbrella? :shrug:

 

[spud_meister]

Re: Paul Janka on How to Flirt in a Way that Turns Women on

I've seen a crap ton of people who deal with projectors regularly. Never seen that before.

I mean, you just don't aim it at your face. Put a book under it or something. I don't buy that.

No-one said he was smart...