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Pasch Goes to OWS!

Paschendale

Uncanny
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Yesterday, I took a couple of hours and went to see what all this Occupy stuff was about firsthand. I wasn't about to head all the way up to NYC, so I checked out the local parts of the movement here in DC. I was surprised with what I saw.

It is true that the OWS movement is lacking a centralized leadership, but that's hardly surprising for a grassroots movement. It seems to be various packets of people, who are slowly coalescing into a more organized affair. There were at least two groups of OWS in DC, staying in two different plazas. The tents were all clustered together, with a few communal ones for cooking and washing things. It actually looked kind of like a refugee camp, but that's not surprising, since most of the people who were there were unemployed.

In fact, the narrative that I've seen about the OWS failed to hold any water with the people I met. The group was about 150 strong, and only a dozen or so were close to my age (20s). The vast majority were older (40-60), working class people, of the same demographic that you'd see at a Tea Party rally, except these people were actually suffering. I spoke with several of these older folks and the story was the same each time. Laid off in the last year or two, and every job they applied for had dozens of applicants, sometimes hundreds. Some told of their jobs being sent overseas. Many had been evicted or foreclosed upon, meaning that they had been living in tents already, or staying with friends. These weren't lifelong hobos (many of whom suffer from mental retardation and have absolutely no means to change their situation because of this), but regular blue collar workers. These were lower middle class people whose livelihoods disappeared.

I spent an hour listening to their general meeting, in which they discussed some of the mundane elements of simply existing together in this setting. They were very dedicated to keeping the plaza clean, and ensuring that other events that were scheduled to take place there weren't affected. They discussed the successes and shortcomings of various protests and planning out future ones. Earlier that day, fifteen or twenty OWS had gone down into one of the metro stations and, at 4:15, had all frozen in place for fifteen minutes. The people at the station immediately took note. Some members of the media showed up and took a lot of pictures of the whole thing. Traffic within the station continued just fine, but a lot of people stopped and took note of what was going on. So, nobody was hurt, or messed with, but the message got out. The police in the station kept a watchful eye for any trouble, but no trouble happened. One cop even commented that he would be joining them in plainclothes the next day. The other events they talked about mainly involved marching and handing out a lot of fliers.

I can't speak to the OWS groups anywhere else, but having seen this group in DC firsthand, I have some healthy respect for them and their cause. They're normal people who have suffered from the recession, and who want to stop it and fix it. They hold the bankers who orchestrated the whole sub-prime system and default swaps and all that crap responsible, as they should. Some outright want to do away with capitalism, but not all. Considering the lives these people are living (as many are essentially homeless), and the vast benefits reaped by the people at the top who caused this recession, I'd want to do away with the system that facilitates it, too. But mostly what these folks wanted was their lives back. They were hard workers who didn't do anything to get caught up in crazy economic bubbles and bursts. I don't know if they're the 99%, but they're certainly the 75%. These folks are Joe the Plumber, only Joe hasn't been able to find work in over a year.

In addition to concerns over the economy and their complete lack of upwards mobility, they also spoke about addressing racism (contrary to the narrative of right-wingers, talking about race and racism isn't what makes you racist, the fact that unemployed black job seekers with similar qualifications are hired less often than their white counterparts makes employers racist), combating homelessness, and opposition to the current wars. Spending all that money on fighting a nebulous enemy while letting the core of America wither doesn't sit right with these folks.

The OWS protesters that I met were kind, older, respectful, blue-collar people. Some were religious, some weren't. Some were anti-capitalist, some weren't. A couple were even Code Pink types, much to my chagrin. But even they weren't screaming out stupidity. They just wanted their little slice of the pie back. They weren't about tearing anything down, but about building people up, so that no one would live in a precarious hand-to-mouth situation. With so much wealth in this country, why shouldn't these fine people be getting a fair share of it?
 
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Oh snap! You've gone and burst the bubble for all those people who wanted this to be stinky hippies and college students living off Mom & Dad and frothing-at-the-mouth lefties bent on destroying capitalism.
 
Oh snap! You've gone and burst the bubble for all those people who wanted this to be stinky hippies and college students living off Mom & Dad and frothing-at-the-mouth lefties bent on destroying capitalism.

What if I told you the tea party was filled with educated, reasonable, open minded people? :)
 
What if I told you the tea party was filled with educated, reasonable, open minded people? :)

I'd tell you that the ones I met were racist, ill-informed, and irrational. I stood outside a Tea Party Rally for about an hour two years back. Did not like what I saw.
 
What if I told you the tea party was filled with educated, reasonable, open minded people? :)

I don't doubt that there are reasonable, educated, open minded people in it. That doesn't change the fact that there are also a bunch of stupid racist ****s in it, though.
 
I was also at an OWS related rally today. It was very interesting. Pretty much every group on the left was represented. You had hippies, environmentalists, union people, commies, anarchists, plus a bunch of random middle aged people who didn't fit into any obvious group. I saw signs advocating pretty much every liberal position in existence.
 
I'd tell you that the ones I met were racist, ill-informed, and irrational. I stood outside a Tea Party Rally for about an hour two years back. Did not like what I saw.
I'd strike out racist, and add in socialist, and replace tea party with OWS and...there you go, that's my opinion, no less valuable than your opinion. :)
 
I'd strike out racist, and add in socialist, and replace tea party with OWS and...there you go, that's my opinion, no less valuable than your opinion. :)

Then you clearly did not read the bulk of my post. These OWS folks were not irrational, or ill-informed. They knew what was up, and what they wanted, and it made sense. The two movements are not the same in the slightest.
 
Then you clearly did not read the bulk of my post. These OWS folks were not irrational, or ill-informed. They knew what was up, and what they wanted, and it made sense. The two movements are not the same in the slightest.

I highly doubt any of us are very good a discerning rationality or whether folks are informed or not by simply being a bystander ,for an hour or 2, at a rally.

I would be extremely surprised if these 2 groups weren't very similar in categories such as " percentage of morons in attendance" "percentage of rational, reasonable folks", " percentage of profession whiners and crybabies", "decent all around folks"....etc.

we get it, you agree with one group, but not the other... so you give a nice glowing review to the one you like, and sh*t on the other....simple bias plays a major role with you (as it does with most others)
 
Then you clearly did not read the bulk of my post. These OWS folks were not irrational, or ill-informed. They knew what was up, and what they wanted, and it made sense. The two movements are not the same in the slightest.

Actually they are being irrational and ill informed.
For one they're putting the majority of the blame at the feet of Wallstreet and they are out protesting, instead of looking for any job.
 
Then you clearly did not read the bulk of my post. These OWS folks were not irrational, or ill-informed. They knew what was up, and what they wanted, and it made sense. The two movements are not the same in the slightest.
but I went to a OWS rally and found nothing but arrogant and irrational, zombie-like yesmen for every liberal cause in the book, while i have found the TP to be diverse, educated, and rational. Their beliefs actually do make sense and they know what they want. Now why is my opinion less invalid than yours?
 
What if I told you the tea party was filled with educated, reasonable, open minded people? :)
Been to a number of TP rallies. The younger people I met were Glenn Beck parrots and the older ones were mostly deceived by Fox. They had not questioned if what the right-wing media was telling them was true and they were not open at all to listening to anything that did not fit the 'truth' they had been sold. The only thing I saw them being open-minded and tolerant toward was racism. Having said that, I have to question your assertion that they were reasonable or open-minded. Some also appeared to lack education based on the misspellings and poor grammar on their signs and in their literature.
 
but I went to a OWS rally and found nothing but arrogant and irrational, zombie-like yesmen for every liberal cause in the book, while i have found the TP to be diverse, educated, and rational. Their beliefs actually do make sense and they know what they want. Now why is my opinion less invalid than yours?

Because you didn't actually do those things. You made them up on the spot to somehow suggest that any firsthand account of something is invalid, especially when it disagrees with what you want to believe.

Besides, I wasn't even offering an opinion. I was just telling you what I saw. If your only defense is to stuck your fingers in your ears and pretend I'm lying, go ahead. The real world will continue unabated.
 
Actually they are being irrational and ill informed.
For one they're putting the majority of the blame at the feet of Wallstreet and they are out protesting, instead of looking for any job.

In other words, they're doing what they can to change the system instead of frittering around asking nicely for an opportunity to work the way they have been for the past few years?
 
The D.C. Metro Region has 12,472 job listings. Quit whining and get a freakin' job.

Jobs | washingtonpost.com

Homeless? I doubt it. Not well enough trained? The government will re-train you:

Services Provided

Training/Retraining

Classroom or vocational training
Literacy and English for non-English speaking individuals
Preparation for the GED exam (high school equivalency diploma)
Job Placement Assistance -- Staff in the Dislocated Worker Unit will develop individually tailored strategies and pursue job opportunities to match the skills of the worker with the needs of employers. CareerPath serves workers, unions and area employers by assessing, counseling, training and placing workers in family-sustaining jobs.

DOES: Services for Dislocated Workers

Need extra training? How about on-the-job training?

On-the-Job Training Initiative

Partnering with the Department of Employment Services’ On-the-Job Training (OJT) initiative is a smart way to find motivated individuals who are eager to return to work and gain new skills.

OJT helps organizations stay competitive by reducing the cost of hiring and training workers. The program reimburses employers 50 percent or more of a new hire’s gross wages during the training period.

Employers determine job requirements, design training plans to meet individual business needs and make final hiring decisions. OJT savings and services can give companies the competitive edge. Providing jobs for qualified workers who are unemployed is rewarding for businesses and our local economy.

A veteran?

Veterans Information
The Department of Employment Services (DOES) offers veterans a wide variety of job search and training services. Special veterans' representatives are employed at most DC Works! Career Centers, where case managers ensure complete services for veterans, especially those who are disabled. Specialized federal services are also available to all veterans by contacting Hire Vets First.

Veterans can benefit from:

Registration at a DC Works! Career Center
Assessment of individual interest, skills, and abilities, as well as counseling, to assist with an effective job search
Follow-up services
Assistance in securing medical services or counseling
Priority status accorded all veterans for all employment services

Boo-freakin'-hoo.


Edit: Pash, forgot to tell you that I think what you did was a very good thing, Congrats!
 
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Because you didn't actually do those things. You made them up on the spot to somehow suggest that any firsthand account of something is invalid, especially when it disagrees with what you want to believe.
lol you and your delusions
Besides, I wasn't even offering an opinion. I was just telling you what I saw. If your only defense is to stuck your fingers in your ears and pretend I'm lying, go ahead. The real world will continue unabated.

To the contrary, you clearly had an opinion.
 
In other words, they're doing what they can to change the system instead of frittering around asking nicely for an opportunity to work the way they have been for the past few years?

They're not changing the fundamentals.
3 groups are at fault, not 1.
The government, the finance industry and "the people."

If you're about to lose your house, you do what you have to, to keep it.
If that means working at McDonald's so be it, no one is entitled to the same job their whole life.
That's a fairy tale.
 
The D.C. Metro Region has 12,472 job listings. Quit whining and get a freakin' job.

Jobs | washingtonpost.com

Homeless? I doubt it. Not well enough trained? The government will re-train you:



DOES: Services for Dislocated Workers

Need extra training? How about on-the-job training?



A veteran?



Boo-freakin'-hoo.


Edit: Pash, forgot to tell you that I think what you did was a very good thing, Congrats!

Population of the DC metro Area: 8, 924, 087
National unemployment: 9.1 %
Unemployed: 812,092
Number of jobs according to you: 12,472


One out of every 65 gets a job assuming they meet all qualifications for the job and there are no other complications. ( I did do the entire population instead of 18-65 even then the number would probably be somewhere in the high thirties.) There just aren't enough jobs there for the people to find work.
 
The D.C. Metro Region has 12,472 job listings. Quit whining and get a freakin' job.

Jobs | washingtonpost.com

Homeless? I doubt it. Not well enough trained? The government will re-train you:



DOES: Services for Dislocated Workers

Need extra training? How about on-the-job training?



A veteran?



Boo-freakin'-hoo.


Edit: Pash, forgot to tell you that I think what you did was a very good thing, Congrats!

Maggie, when the country as a whole is suffering from 9% unemployment, the problem is a lot more complex than just "individuals are lazy and won't get jobs." Our economy is facing long-term structural issues.
 
Maggie, when the country as a whole is suffering from 9% unemployment, the problem is a lot more complex than just "individuals are lazy and won't get jobs." Our economy is facing long-term structural issues.

Population of the DC metro Area: 8, 924, 087
National unemployment: 9.1 %
Unemployed: 812,092
Number of jobs according to you: 12,472


One out of every 65 gets a job assuming they meet all qualifications for the job and there are no other complications. ( I did do the entire population instead of 18-65 even then the number would probably be somewhere in the high thirties.) There just aren't enough jobs there for the people to find work.

I actually like your thought process; and you have a statistical point -- as far as it goes. I won't pick nits with you much except to remind you that only 46% of U.S. residents file income tax in any year. And of those, tens of miollions are retired. And millions are on disability. But those several hundred? There are plenty of jobs for them.
 
I actually like your thought process; and you have a statistical point -- as far as it goes. I won't pick nits with you much except to remind you that only 46% of U.S. residents file income tax in any year. And of those, tens of miollions are retired. And millions are on disability. But those several hundred? There are plenty of jobs for them.

Yes, but the economy always takes time to match people up with certain jobs, and in some cases skills mismatches can also create a shortage of workers in a specific sector despite the unemployment rate.
 
I went down to the rally again today, after they'd set up camp and occupied for the night. Almost all of the people left were hippies. It was kind of disappointing, although not really surprising. The thing is, OWS is really a movement about people being pissed off, and that's completely incompatible with hippyism, so everyone who goes down there today to see what the movement is about is going to get the wrong idea.
 
I like this thread. I like to hear from actual, real people, even IF they have a bias, about this, rather than trying to parse through the enormous levels of BS the media puts forth. If I find time, I think I might catch a train to NYC, and check that one out for myself, to provide another angle on it, from another view point. Make it day out with my kids kinda thing...God, what am I SAYING? A 2 and half year old girl, and a 5 month old boy....I didn't sign up for this crap....oh, wait, I DID, lol.
 
I like this thread. I like to hear from actual, real people, even IF they have a bias, about this, rather than trying to parse through the enormous levels of BS the media puts forth. If I find time, I think I might catch a train to NYC, and check that one out for myself, to provide another angle on it, from another view point. Make it day out with my kids kinda thing...God, what am I SAYING? A 2 and half year old girl, and a 5 month old boy....I didn't sign up for this crap....oh, wait, I DID, lol.

Respectfully? I think you're nutz. Take your 2-1/2 year-old girl and 5-month little boy into a crowd of protesters? WTF?
 
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