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Palestinians to ask UN for state based on 1967 borders

donsutherland1

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From the Jerusalem Post:

But amid criticism of Israel's settlement activities during the two-day solidarity event, Israeli officials were bracing for Palestinian diplomats to declare new diplomatic strategies during a General Assembly debate on Monday. Specifically, officials were expected to use the platform to ask the Security Council to declare a Palestinian state along 1967 borders, with east Jerusalem as the state's capital, according to reports published in recent weeks.

Palestinians to ask UN for '67-borders state with Jerusalem | Israel | Jerusalem Post

IMO, if this issue reaches the UN Security Council, the Security Council should reject it. The terms of a peace agreement need to be reached through negotiations. The terms should not be prejudged. At the same time, the Palestinian demands should not be ratified by the Security Council as a substitute for negotiations.

Rather than seeking to unilaterally score political points, the Palestinians should return to negotiations.
 
From the Jerusalem Post:



Palestinians to ask UN for '67-borders state with Jerusalem | Israel | Jerusalem Post

IMO, if this issue reaches the UN Security Council, the Security Council should reject it. The terms of a peace agreement need to be reached through negotiations. The terms should not be prejudged. At the same time, the Palestinian demands should not be ratified by the Security Council as a substitute for negotiations.

Rather than seeking to unilaterally score political points, the Palestinians should return to negotiations.


Why is that?
 
Why is that?

Optimally, both sides would reach a mutually acceptable accord. Without the core needs of both parties being accommodated, the terms will not be sustainable and would be viewed by them as illegitimate. Alternatives to a negotiated outcome i.e., unilateral measures and/or allowing the evolution of events to define a settlement, would probably contain fewer net mutual benefits. In such circumstances, power would play a larger role.

By ratifying the Palestinian demands, the UN would merely circumvent the negotiating process. In doing so, the UN would surrender any constructive role it could play as an intermediary or mediator on account of its becoming the agent of a single party to the dispute.

It would also lose credibility with respect to calling for a diplomatic solution after its having bypassed diplomacy. In contradiction to its Charter's call for Member states to settle disputes by "peaceful means," it would attempt to assume full jurisdiction for the settling of disputes. That development would represent a serious encroachment on the sovereign jurisdiction of nation-states. As a result, it would more than likely nurture intransigence, especially if the UN lacks the physical means to impose its solutions.

No state can grant outsiders carte blanche to intervene in their affairs, particularly when their critical interests are involved. Almost certainly, Israel would reject the terms of such a resolution, both on grounds of its interests in the dispute and on the principle of preserving its sovereign jurisdiction. And if, by the UN's actions, the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is transformed into one in which sovereign jurisdiction becomes a defining issue, that would greatly complicate an already complex dispute.

Finally, such a move would also establish yet another precedent whereby the UN tries to hold Israel to a separate standard than that for all other sovereign states. Certainly, the UN has made no moves to unilaterally settle the status of various disputes arising out of the breakup of the Soviet Union, disputes between India and Pakistan, disputes within China's boundaries e.g., Tibet, among others. IMO, those are matters properly left to the sovereign states to resolve, not the UN to dictate terms.

Should such a resolution reach the Security Council, I believe the Security Council should unanimously reject it (though I highly doubt such an outcome). At the same time, the U.S. should, and almost certainly will, veto it.

Now, if the UN wants to offer suggested terms to the parties (and it would have to address all final settlement issues) as a basis for settling the historic dispute, that would be a whole different matter. Well-considered suggestions can be constructive. Attempts at imposition won't be helpful, especially as the differences between the two parties are both deep and fundamental.
 
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A permanent peace agreement is a peace agreement that equally satisfies both parties.
Are you in disagreement?

If they haven't been able to drive to such an agreement by this point in time, what makes you think that they can find such solution now without outside intervention?
 
The Palestinians seem to be off-balance.

Well played Mitchell and Netanyahu!
 
If they haven't been able to drive to such an agreement by this point in time, what makes you think that they can find such solution now without outside intervention?
What makes you think that time is an absolute factor here?

And I'll be asking you as well, do you disagree with my previous statement, that a permanent peace agreement is a peace agreement that would equally satisfy both parties?
 
How long is this isseu concerning two pebbles and a few sand dunes going dominate the international agenda. Israel, armed to the teeth, surely capable of defending itself, should work something out with the arab nations who are part of this conflict. As always, there are little hopes for the Palestinian people. After the return of the Golan heights, there's simply nothing that would interest the arab countries and they probably prefer to keep Israel as a scapegoat, on which they can blame all their failures.
Palestinians need to become aware of the political reality. They're surrounded by their enemy, they have been left by their allies, they depend on Israels mercy every day.
 
Optimally, both sides would reach a mutually acceptable accord. Without the core needs of both parties being accommodated, the terms will not be sustainable and would be viewed by them as illegitimate. Alternatives to a negotiated outcome i.e., unilateral measures and/or allowing the evolution of events to define a settlement, would probably contain fewer net mutual benefits. In such circumstances, power would play a larger role.

By ratifying the Palestinian demands, the UN would merely circumvent the negotiating process. In doing so, the UN would surrender any constructive role it could play as an intermediary or mediator on account of its becoming the agent of a single party to the dispute.

It would also lose credibility with respect to calling for a diplomatic solution after its having bypassed diplomacy. In contradiction to its Charter's call for Member states to settle disputes by "peaceful means," it would attempt to assume full jurisdiction for the settling of disputes. That development would represent a serious encroachment on the sovereign jurisdiction of nation-states. As a result, it would more than likely nurture intransigence, especially if the UN lacks the physical means to impose its solutions.

No state can grant outsiders carte blanche to intervene in their affairs, particularly when their critical interests are involved. Almost certainly, Israel would reject the terms of such a resolution, both on grounds of its interests in the dispute and on the principle of preserving its sovereign jurisdiction. And if, by the UN's actions, the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is transformed into one in which sovereign jurisdiction becomes a defining issue, that would greatly complicate an already complex dispute.

Finally, such a move would also establish yet another precedent whereby the UN tries to hold Israel to a separate standard than that for all other sovereign states. Certainly, the UN has made no moves to unilaterally settle the status of various disputes arising out of the breakup of the Soviet Union, disputes between India and Pakistan, disputes within China's boundaries e.g., Tibet, among others. IMO, those are matters properly left to the sovereign states to resolve, not the UN to dictate terms.

Should such a resolution reach the Security Council, I believe the Security Council should unanimously reject it (though I highly doubt such an outcome). At the same time, the U.S. should, and almost certainly will, veto it.

Now, if the UN wants to offer suggested terms to the parties (and it would have to address all final settlement issues) as a basis for settling the historic dispute, that would be a whole different matter. Well-considered suggestions can be constructive. Attempts at imposition won't be helpful, especially as the differences between the two parties are both deep and fundamental.

Thank you

How does this repudiation of UN action square with its impostion of decision in places like Afghnistan?

Or why did the US and UK seek UN approval to intervene in Iraq if it is so problematic a thing to do? How do you sqaure the coalitions actions, led by the US against Iraq in this light?

Isnt this stuff about core needs just a bit of subjective nonsense made up to say that basically if Israel doesnt want to give up something then it wont and thats that?

Dont you recognise that international law, rather than some nonsense about core needs drawn from Dennis Ross is the best basis of agreement since these laws are based on concensus which takes into account the needs of all parties since they are based on some fundamental human rights conventions and not subjective assessments from dubious self-selected arbitrators such Mr Ross?

Moreover if you are going to to place your argument on the basis of 'core needs' would you support a UN commision to assess those core needs?
 
What makes you think that time is an absolute factor here?

And I'll be asking you as well, do you disagree with my previous statement, that a permanent peace agreement is a peace agreement that would equally satisfy both parties?

I don't disagree with the notion that both sides have to be able to work something out which works in the favor of both parties. I disagree with the notion that Israel and Palestine will ever be able to drive to such a solution on their own.
 
Dont you recognise that international law, rather than some nonsense about core needs drawn from Dennis Ross is the best basis of agreement since these laws are based on concensus which takes into account the needs of all parties since they are based on some fundamental human rights conventions and not subjective assessments from dubious self-selected arbitrators such Mr Ross?

Moreover if you are going to to place your argument on the basis of 'core needs' would you support a UN commision to assess those core needs?

Several points:

1. What Dennis Ross says about the satisfaction of the parties' core needs being the least common denominator of agreements is an accurate representation. No party will freely consent to something that deprives it of what it needs.

2. Dennis Ross's observation is not incompatible with international law nor is it a substitute for its principles.

3. If the UN were to seek to impose a solution that automatically grants the Palestinians the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, such a solution would run counter to UNSC Res. 242. By embracing the Palestinian negotiating position, the UN would become the Palestinians' agent and lose all possibility of serving constructively in a mediating function.

Fortunately, such a possibility is theoretical. I have little doubt that the U.S. would veto any bid by the UN Security Council to prejudge the terms of a final settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.

If the parties want to choose an independent mediator to help them address their differences, it is up to them to do so. IMO, the UN's demonstrated record of partiality (particularly in the General Assembly and Human Rights Council) precludes the UN's playing such a role.
 
From the Jerusalem Post:



Palestinians to ask UN for '67-borders state with Jerusalem | Israel | Jerusalem Post

IMO, if this issue reaches the UN Security Council, the Security Council should reject it. The terms of a peace agreement need to be reached through negotiations. The terms should not be prejudged. At the same time, the Palestinian demands should not be ratified by the Security Council as a substitute for negotiations.

Rather than seeking to unilaterally score political points, the Palestinians should return to negotiations.

I agree. Those borders would still exist today if not for the war caused by Jordan, Egypt, and Syria. They lost AND THEY NEED TO GET OVER IT.
 
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