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Palestinian....Fact or Fiction

I hate to generalize, but reading the historical facts regarding the ME problems, the Arabs look more like a bunch of big bully losers turned sour grapes.

When they had the chance to build themselves a new nation side by side with Israel, what did they do? They abandoned it and chose to go into war against the infant State of Israel. So they lost the war they couldn't win, and lost again in their obssessive compulsion to annihilate a nation that they despise. They gave Israel every reason to fight the whining big bullies with a well justified pre-emptive strike.

Let the winner keeps the spoils. I'm just perplexed why Israel would even return some of the recovered lands.
 
ludahai said:
It returned most of the land after Egypt signed a peace treaty and foreswore against future violence against Israel. If the rest of the Arab world would do the same, ESPECIALLY the so-called Palestinians, there would no longer be a need to hold the West Bank.
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They have built and expanded settlements in the occupied territories and so far they are not showing their prepardness, to give all of the land back, they occupied during 6-days war.
 
battleax86 said:
The fact remains that there is not, nor has there ever been, a "Palestinian" Arab nation or national identity. The Arabs are using revisionist history in an attempt to create such an identity because they cannot successfully fight Israel on the political front without it.
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Well, ok, you don't believe in a Palestinian identity.
 
Volker said:
They have built and expanded settlements in the occupied territories and so far they are not showing their prepardness, to give all of the land back, they occupied during 6-days war.
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Why would any victorious nation give up everything in return for nothing? To date, only Egypt and Jordan have signed peace accords with Israel.

This news report below is illuminating as well. Why would Israel or any nation abandon a buffer zone to an increasingly hostile and militant Hamas?

Hamas spokesman rejects call to recognize agreements made by Arafat

Saturday, February 18, 2006 Posted: 1814 GMT (0214 HKT)

RAMALLAH, West Bank (CNN) -- Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas addressed the opening session of the new Hamas-majority parliament Saturday, urging the Islamic militants to recognize previous peace agreements with Israel.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri, after the address, said his group understands Abbas' position regarding Israel, but it is sticking to its position.

Hamas, which now controls 74 of 132 seats in the parliament, has called for the destruction of Israel and opposes being bound by accords signed under the late Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat.

"We declared our position from the first, and there is no change," Zuhri said.



 
Tashah said:
Why would any victorious nation give up everything in return for nothing? To date, only Egypt and Jordan have signed peace accords with Israel.
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Did Israel offer to give Golan Heights back?

Tashah said:
This news report below is illuminating as well. Why would Israel or any nation abandon a buffer zone to an increasingly hostile and militant Hamas?
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Don't they have a ceasefire since August 2005?
 
Volker said:
Did Israel offer to give Golan Heights back?
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Perhaps you didn't comprehend the question. I asked why would any nation give up everything in return for nothing. There is no peace agreement between Israel and Syria. Technically, a state of war still exists. Correct me if I am in error, but this same situation is found on the Korean penninsula. Last I heard, the Korean buffer zone remains in place 53 years after a ceasefire proposal was accepted. That is why the US military continues to fortify the buffer zone... because ceasefires do not officially end hostilities.

Volker said:
Don't they have a ceasefire since August 2005?
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Israel totally withdrew from Gaza in August of 2005. A ceasefire was subsequently honored by both Israel and the PA, but Hamas has violated this ceasefire almost daily with Qassam rocket attacks on Israeli towns close to Gaza.

As was clear in the news report, Hamas does not recognize agreements between Israel and Arafat and thus by extension.... will also not honor agreements between Israel and Mr. Mahmoud Abbas. In other words, a ceasefire is no longer in effect as far as Hamas is concerned.
 
Tashah said:
Perhaps you didn't comprehend the question. I asked why would any nation give up everything in return for nothing. There is no peace agreement between Israel and Syria.
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The occupation of this land is not justified, that's why there is no basis to demand something before giving it back. A peace agreement with Syria and Israel could be possible after the withdrawal from Golan Heights, I guess.

Tashah said:
Technically, a state of war still exists. Correct me if I am in error, but this same situation is found on the Korean penninsula. Last I heard, the Korean buffer zone remains in place 53 years after a ceasefire proposal was accepted. That is why the US military continues to fortify the buffer zone... because ceasefires do not officially end hostilities.
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Yes, there is no peace contract in Korea. The US troops are there for historical reasons, they have been reduced. I don't think, they fortify anything.

Tashah said:
Israel totally withdrew from Gaza in August of 2005. A ceasefire was subsequently honored by both Israel and the PA, but Hamas has violated this ceasefire almost daily with Qassam rocket attacks on Israeli towns close to Gaza.
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I heard, Hamas sustained ceasefire. I've never heard, they have to do with Qassam rocket attacks.
 
I say it is time we bombed out the crazy Hamas people!
 
ThePhoenix said:
As long as Hamas is in power and exist, there will never be a ceasefire. Volker, I would like for you or anyone else intrested to watch this Hamas video on Israel.

We will drink the blood of the Jews.

Americas Truth Forum

Windows media file
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This video is weird.
The suicide bombing and the video are from December 2004, this was before the ceasefire.
It has been published at Hamas website in February 2006.
 
Volker said:
This video is weird.
The suicide bombing and the video are from December 2004, this was before the ceasefire.
It has been published at Hamas website in February 2006.
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Hamas does not recognize the cease fire or any other agreement the PA has made with Israel. They DO NOT recognize Israel's right to exist. The Palestinians have derailed years and years of progress with one vote. It would not surprise me if Likud gets a big win in Israel's upcoming election in response to this.
 
Volker said:
The occupation of this land is not justified, that's why there is no basis to demand something before giving it back...
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Perhaps you want to tell that to Prophet Mohammed. I think he and his followers conquered alot of lands and converted them into Muslim empire, including the land of the Jewish people.

Perhaps we should demand that Muslim lands should return to their original people. While doing that, why not just tear down the big mosque that sits on Temple Mount in Jerusalem?
 
ludahai said:
Hamas does not recognize the cease fire or any other agreement the PA has made with Israel. They DO NOT recognize Israel's right to exist. The Palestinians have derailed years and years of progress with one vote. It would not surprise me if Likud gets a big win in Israel's upcoming election in response to this.
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Democracy's on the march.
 
blastula said:
Perhaps we should demand that Muslim lands should return to their original people. While doing that, why not just tear down the big mosque that sits on Temple Mount in Jerusalem?
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I wonder whatever became of the Canaanites?
 
blastula said:
Perhaps you want to tell that to Prophet Mohammed. I think he and his followers conquered alot of lands and converted them into Muslim empire, including the land of the Jewish people.

Perhaps we should demand that Muslim lands should return to their original people. While doing that, why not just tear down the big mosque that sits on Temple Mount in Jerusalem?
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Caliph Umar conquered Palestine in 634. Most of the people there converted to Islam voluntary during the next 100 years. People has not been expelled or forced to convert during this time.
 
Volker said:
Well, ok, you don't believe in a Palestinian identity.
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Why should I believe in an identity artificially constructed for the purpose of destroying a nation?
 
battleax86 said:
Why should I believe in an identity artificially constructed for the purpose of destroying a nation?
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Before 1920 there were no "Palestinian Arab people"
The people living in the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean sea were mostly known by their religion, or Eastern Arabic speakers; Arabic speakers; or all Muslims.
But "Palestinians," at that time was not considered because it was a secular way of saying Eretz Yisra'el or Terra Sancta, it combined a Jewish and Christian concept, This seemed to be offensive to Muslims. Muslims west of the Jordan turned their allegiance to Damascus

Then (since 1920) they came up with the idea of establishing an independent Palestinian state consisting of Syrian, Arab, and Muslim. Now their intentions are to take all the land Israel has and make it all a Arab/Muslim Palestine.
 
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Volker said:
Caliph Umar conquered Palestine in 634. Most of the people there converted to Islam voluntary during the next 100 years. People has not been expelled or forced to convert during this time.
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The key word "conquered" revealed the true nature of conversion. From what I'd read, it was more like under the threat of sword to the head.
 
ThePhoenix said:
Before 1920 there were no "Palestinian Arab people"
The people living in the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean sea were mostly known by their religion, or Eastern Arabic speakers; Arabic speakers; or all Muslims.
But "Palestinians," at that time was not considered because it was a secular way of saying Eretz Yisra'el or Terra Sancta, it combined a Jewish and Christian concept, This seemed to be offensive to Muslims. Muslims west of the Jordan turned their allegiance to Damascus

Then (since 1920) they came up with the idea of establishing an independent Palestinian state consisting of Syrian, Arab, and Muslim.
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Yes, this is how I see things, too.

ThePhoenix said:
Now their intentions are to take all the land Israel has and make it all a Arab/Muslim Palestine.
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There are different political currents, but I think, this is, what many Palestinians want in the long run.
 
blastula said:
The key word "conquered" revealed the true nature of conversion. From what I'd read, it was more like under the threat of sword to the head.
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I don't think so. In fact, people, who were not Muslims had to pay higher taxes, so government was not unhappy about these folks.

Early Islam was rather tolerant, there were buildings, which were used as mosque and church at the same time, only with different entries. I think, Hagia Sophia in Istanbul was one of these buildings.
 
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