Pabst says MillerCoors is trying to put it out of business

[Threegoofs]

Its not fraudulent. If jim beam makes an 8 year old bourbon and i buy 30 barrels and sell it as a small batch fancy bourbon theres nothing illegal about it. I think they are required to put where it was distilled which is why many bourbons were distilled in some city in indiana. Some large distillery called mgp makes them and sells them by the barrell. Not to crap on mgp. Some really good stuff comes out of there unless someone asks for the cheapest stuff possible.

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This is all true.

Your ?Craft? Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

This goes for vodka and other whiskey too. Rumor has it that Tito’s ‘handmade’ vodka buys neutral spirit from them by the trainload.

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Truth About Tito's and All Vodka

And as for beer... Pabst is a good example of a marketed brand, but then again, so is Sam Adams.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Marketing. Very common in the beer/alcohol business. Buy a few barrels of bourbon from Jim Beam or MGP, slap a fancy label by a company that sounds local and call it "small batch bourbon" and you just turned 15-20 dollar bottle of booze in to a 30 to 70 dollar bottle of booze.

Why do you think Trump is paid (or was paid) to put his name on buildings that he didn't build, didn't pay for, and doesn't own?

I think I'll try Pabst again. I haven't touched it in years. When I was a kid, that was the redneck brand. Low rung American rice-based beer.

 

[roughdraft274]

This is all true.

Your ?Craft? Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

This goes for vodka and other whiskey too. Rumor has it that Tito’s ‘handmade’ vodka buys neutral spirit from them by the trainload.

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Truth About Tito's and All Vodka

And as for beer... Pabst is a good example of a marketed brand, but then again, so is Sam Adams.

Yep. It's also just simply human nature. Most wine snobs or whiskey snobs will give a better grade to something if they think it costs more.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

RE: Thread title

Isn't that what ALL companies are trying to do to their competitors?

You would think so but no

In the agricultural pesticide business they all do business with each other, selling stuff to one competitor, buying stuff from the other one. They compete but nothing anywhere being close to being cutthroat. In general they are all willing to accept a certain profit margin, and be withing a certain market share. None ever go hard on lowering prices to gain a lot of market share. That would cause all to lower prices, make profits shrink and still lower the overall revenue for the industry. Farmers only need a certain amount of pesticides per year, they can not spray too much without hurting the crops

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

As a side note

How long has Bud been a rice based beer? That certainly was not part of the original recipe I am sure

 

[Ikari]

Thanks for the explanation. I suppose in this time of Apple/Foxconn and so on I should not be surprised. But a beer company that does not brew its own beer is to me sort of like the Cowboys contracting with the Patriots to play their football games for them.

Well PBR isn't really a beer company. It's a brand that has been bought and consolidated into larger holdings. It's brand still has appeal and market share, so it's worth producing, but not at volumes that would make owning your own production capabilities reasonable.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Well PBR isn't really a beer company. It's a brand that has been bought and consolidated into larger holdings. It's brand still has appeal and market share, so it's worth producing, but not at volumes that would make owning your own production capabilities reasonable.

Pabst as a product was dying on the vine until a marketing plan saved it.

 

[LowDown]

This is all true.

Your ?Craft? Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

This goes for vodka and other whiskey too. Rumor has it that Tito’s ‘handmade’ vodka buys neutral spirit from them by the trainload.

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Truth About Tito's and All Vodka

And as for beer... Pabst is a good example of a marketed brand, but then again, so is Sam Adams.

Huh. I thought they were getting the grain spirits from China.

Fifth Generation (Tito's) just has a bunch of what look like big warehouses, no grain silos. It ain't right.

 

[Threegoofs]

As a side note

How long has Bud been a rice based beer? That certainly was not part of the original recipe I am sure

Actually, it was. It was an adjunct used to lighten the beer and make up for the generally poorer quality of the malted barley in the US, which was six row vs the two row in Europe. It lightens the flavor also, which was more acceptable in the hotter climate of the US.

Rice was advertised as a feature of the beer since it initially was brewed in the 1800s.

Cheap beers today use corn instead.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Actually, it was. It was an adjunct used to lighten the beer and make up for the generally poorer quality of the malted barley in the US, which was six row vs the two row in Europe. It lightens the flavor also, which was more acceptable in the hotter climate of the US.

Rice was advertised as a feature of the beer since it initially was brewed in the 1800s.

Cheap beers today use corn instead.

Thanks, I did not know this. Quite surprising for a recipe so old

 

[marke]

From Associated Press

Pabst says MillerCoors is trying to put it out of business
​

MILWAUKEE (AP) — Pabst Brewing Company and MillerCoors are going to trial, with hipster favorite Pabst contending that MillerCoors wants to put it out of business by ending a longstanding partnership through which it brews Pabst’s beers.

The case has high stakes for Pabst, whose lawyers argue that the company’s very existence relies on the partnership with Chicago-based MillerCoors, which produces, packages and ships nearly all its products, which include Pabst Blue Ribbon, Old Milwaukee, Natty Boh and Lone Star. MillerCoors, meanwhile, says it’s not obligated to continue brewing for Pabst and that Pabst doesn’t want to pay enough to justify doing so.

The trial in Milwaukee County Circuit Court begins Monday and is scheduled through Nov. 30.

Pabst’s attorneys have said in court documents and hearings that MillerCoors LLC is lying about its brewing capacity to break away from Pabst and capture its share of the cheap beer market by disrupting Pabst’s ability to compete. At a March hearing in which MillerCoors tried to have the lawsuit dismissed, Pabst attorney Adam Paris said “stunning documents” obtained from MillerCoors show that it went as far as hiring a consultant to “figure out ways to get rid of us.” MillerCoors has called that a mischaracterization of the consultant’s work.

COMMENT:-

Enough with all of this trivial "Trump this" and "Trump that" crap - this is REALLY important political news and the MSM is almost totally ignoring it!

PS - Anyone who even begins to think that the relationship between "Pabst" and "MillerCoors" is even remotely similar to the relationship between "The Republicans" and "The Democrats" will be severely chastised. I mean the labels on the bottles of beer that "Pabst" sells and the labels on the bottles of beer that "MillerCoors" sell are COMPLETELY different and you can tell which one of them is better just by looking at the label so does it actually matter that they put exactly the same ingredients in the same vats to brew them?
​

Beer is a choice beverage among drunks. Christians who want to please God abstain from drinking beer.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Beer is a choice beverage among drunks. Christians who want to please God abstain from drinking beer.

“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!”

: Martin Luther.

 

[Threegoofs]

Thanks, I did not know this. Quite surprising for a recipe so old

Adjuncts have a long history in brewing.

I remember talking to a guy at Monticello - they had some beer derived from a Jefferson recipe that they sold - and it actually contained corn - so it dates back to the 18th century for sure, and beer with just straight corn was known to the Incans (and is still brewed there today - Chicha - basically chewed corn and spit, fermented).

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Beer is a choice beverage among drunks. Christians who want to please God abstain from drinking beer.

How about wine?

 

[jimbo]

Mergers and consolidation have pretty much robbed the American public of any real voice in the market place, hence why the rights arguments about the "free market" are hollow, especially when they refuse to realize that their administrations routinely ignore anti-trust laws.

No choice in the beer market? Any city over 10,000 has a dozen or more locals to choose from, + hundreds of nationwides. Pabst, Milwalkee's Best, disappeared from our market years ago. Beer shelf space has tripled.

If there's any free market in the US it would be beer.

 

[ecofarm]

No choice in the beer market? Any city over 10,000 has a dozen or more locals to choose from, + hundreds of nationwides. Pabst, Milwalkee's Best, disappeared from our market years ago. Beer shelf space has tripled.

If there's any free market in the US it would be beer.

Craft/small is everywhere, even grocery stores. Beer in America underwent a revolution the past 20 years. It's no longer "Bud or Miller". That would be a joke about old times today.

 

[marke]

: Martin Luther.

Martin Luther also hated Jews and recommended genocide. He may have been right on some things but on others he was just two steps away from being a brain dead moron.

 

[marke]

How about wine?

Beverages which dull the senses are not for those who are constantly working to benefit others.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Beverages which dull the senses are not for those who are constantly working to benefit others.

You need a few beers.

 

[marke]

You need a few beers.

I once drank part of a can of beer as a teenager. I do not understand how anyone can develop a taste for that sewer slop.

 

[Mason66]

For whatever reason in the past, Pabst gave up its means of production and sourced it out. Typically it's an OK relationship, as Pabst has had historically with Miller-Coors or whatever corporations it was before the various mergers and splits. Miller-Coors could pick up contracts and run their lines to fuller capacity, making money and improving efficiency of their established factories. But I think Miller-Coors is correct, they are not under obligation to brew it if the contract runs out; they don't have to renew it. It's a gamble when you give up the means of production for your brand. So if Miller-Coors does decide to stop making it, and I would imagine a judge would agree that unless they are under contract to do so that they are under no obligation to do so, then Pabst will have to find another factory willing to produce, package, and ship their products.

BTW, in terms of American Piss Beer, I do like PBR, though Colorado loyalty means that when I do drink American Piss Beer, I usually drink Coors Banquet.

The OP says Pabst doesn't want to pay what MillerCoors needs to continue the relationship.

Why would Pabst spend money on lawyers instead of paying what they want to stay in business.

Something doesn't smell right about this, and I am not talking about the hops, which stink.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The OP says Pabst doesn't want to pay what MillerCoors needs to continue the relationship.

Why would Pabst spend money on lawyers instead of paying what they want to stay in business.

Something doesn't smell right about this, and I am not talking about the hops, which stink.

I expect Millercoors was going to increase the price for making Pabst beer to a level it would have been unprofitable for Pabst. Probably to drive Pabst market share down, and increase theirs. Or as a means to force the owners of Pabst to sell out to Millercoors.

 

[Mason66]

I expect Millercoors was going to increase the price for making Pabst beer to a level it would have been unprofitable for Pabst. Probably to drive Pabst market share down, and increase theirs. Or as a means to force the owners of Pabst to sell out to Millercoors.

That is an assumption we don't know is true.

 

[Ikari]

The OP says Pabst doesn't want to pay what MillerCoors needs to continue the relationship.

Why would Pabst spend money on lawyers instead of paying what they want to stay in business.

Something doesn't smell right about this, and I am not talking about the hops, which stink.

It was likely a breakdown in Contract Negotiations. I mean, we can only speculate as we do not know actually what is happening. But Miller-Coors may have hiked the price exorbitantly and then arbitration failed to reach a conclusion. The corporation which owns the PBR brand likely has lawyers on standby for just such a thing. We see these things in a lot of areas. For instance, in TV providers such as Comcast, Dish, Direct TV, pay producers (the channels or the corporations that own the various channels) to broadcast their content. Sometimes near the end of contracts, certain content producers will hike rates to carry programming or make other demands such as if you want X, you have to have Y & Z and Y & Z must be made available in these other consumer packages and blah blah blah. This will go to arbitration, and sometimes arbitration fails. Content producers will sometimes pull their content from a provider (which is why sometimes Comcast, Direct TV, or Dish may lose channels for periods of time) to force the provider to accept their terms. On some occasions, these things end up in court; but there are always lawyers involved. The lawyers are there from the start.

Whomever owns the PBR brand already has lawyers and those lawyers were working on the contract negotiations and arbitration. It looks like that fell through, so they're going to court. So it's not "why are they spending money on the lawyers instead", they're already spending money on the lawyers, they had always been on the payrolls.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

That is an assumption we don't know is true.

You are right we do not know why but the business relationship is likely to be ruined by what ever is occurring.

A minor price increase is not likely to cause this, I doubt Millercoors had a capacity issue, in which they could not produce Pabst beer and still produce other products. Given the majors in the industry are trying to buy up market share, through purchases of craft brewers, Miller making a play for Pabst makes sense.