• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect Or

Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Bigfoot 88 said:
BREAKING: Overwhelmed #Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian 'Oath Keepers' Militia To Protect Order - GotNews

I'm putting this here because it shows the value of citizen militias and the 2nd amendment. Looks like they have...oh no...assault weapons!
Click to expand...

Kinda minds me of the Korean Militia in Los Angeles during the riots of 1992.

Where ever law abiding citizens were armed, no looting or arson took place.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Bigfoot 88 said:
BREAKING: Overwhelmed #Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian 'Oath Keepers' Militia To Protect Order - GotNews

I'm putting this here because it shows the value of citizen militias and the 2nd amendment. Looks like they have...oh no...assault weapons!
Click to expand...
That sounds to me like a formula for anarchy and violence. And the police welcome them? I don't think so.

Here's another article on these "Oath keepers:"

Local cops didn’t agree. Over the weekend, they threatened keepers of the oath with arrest, forcing the men to abandon their positions, but not the group’s founding tenets.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Dittohead not! said:
That sounds to me like a formula for anarchy and violence. And the police welcome them? I don't think so.

Here's another article on these "Oath keepers:"
Click to expand...

Sounds like conflicting reports. But not surprising. Some cops care about the citizens and want them to be protected. Others are ego-centered and care about their authority, so not surprising they got upset.

Someone has to keep the animals at bay.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

We have our own sworn Oath Keepers here behind the Orange Curtain.

Oath Keepers Orange County & Southern California Chapters (Tustin, CA) - Meetup


Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution Our motto is "Not on our watch!"
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Dittohead not! said:
That sounds to me like a formula for anarchy and violence. And the police welcome them? I don't think so.

Here's another article on these "Oath keepers:"
Click to expand...
If a militia is operating under proper authority then they can't be arrested by civilian cops, only MPs. Anyway the police should be working with the commissioned military officer the militia is operating under and thus should have been briefed on the militia's use.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

APACHERAT said:
We have our own sworn Oath Keepers here behind the Orange Curtain.

Oath Keepers Orange County & Southern California Chapters (Tustin, CA) - Meetup


Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution Our motto is "Not on our watch!"
Click to expand...
That oath expires with the enlistment contract, just like a marriage vow expires with a divorce.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

shrubnose said:
These people sound like vigilantes to me.
Click to expand...
If they weren't called to muster by Governor Jay Nixon and were not operating under the direct command of a commissioned military officer, then yes they were vigilantes.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Jerry said:
If they weren't called to muster by Governor Jay Nixon and were not operating under the direct command of a commissioned military officer, then yes they were vigilantes.
Click to expand...

Oath Keepers Guard Ferguson's Streets and Rooftops, Drawing Police Opposition - ABC News

I think the authorities are a bit confused as to what to do with them right now. Some of the people seem to like them.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

American said:
Oath Keepers Guard Ferguson's Streets and Rooftops, Drawing Police Opposition - ABC News

I think the authorities are a bit confused as to what to do with them right now. Some of the people seem to like them.
Click to expand...
Was Andrews equipped with an assault rifle? Was he really? As in an NFA item made and registered before May 19, 1986, and he had his paperwork with tax-stamp on his person?
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Jerry said:
Was Andrews equipped with an assault rifle? Was he really? As in an NFA item made and registered before May 19, 1986, and he had his paperwork with tax-stamp on his person?
Click to expand...

I don't know. You know news people aren't always accurate. It's could have just been an AR15 or something.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

American said:
I don't know. You know news people aren't always accurate. It's could have just been an AR15 or something.
Click to expand...
Makes one wonder how many other details they don't get right.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

shrubnose said:
These people sound like vigilantes to me.
Click to expand...

Did they fire on anyone? Vigilante implies that they had committed to action. If all they did was provide a presence that prevented attacks, vigilante is not the right term.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

tech30528 said:
Did they fire on anyone? Vigilante implies that they had committed to action. If all they did was provide a presence that prevented attacks, vigilante is not the right term.
Click to expand...

Even if they are "vigilantes" I support them being there.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Where I live we have a Community Emergency Response Network which is an autonomous group dedicated to aiding local people, businesses and law enforcement in the event of any occurance that overwhelms local emergency personnel. We are called on by local Emergency Operations in a time of need. Much of our training is provided and paid for by local, state (GEMA) and federal (FEMA) authorities. People choose what they want to train in. I went the route of medical emergency response for the most part. My EMS training (paid for by the state) requires me to carry a trauma kit and respond to medical emergencies as needed working with local authorities. We also have security forces who are called on to maintain order following natural or man made disasters. An example would be maintaining order at supply distribution points following things like tornadoes, wildfires or extreme temperatures. We have people trained in search and rescue including high angle and fast water (we are in the mountains) and in fact the last 2 search and rescues here, our guys found the missing people before local authorities showed up. Our county including fire and police departments rely on us in times of need. Our group of volunteers is much appreciated in the community. A few hundred well trained volunteers on call help to keep our taxes down since we do not have to pay many more people to be on call just in case.

The idea that there is somehow a moral difference between volunteer responders and government employees is ridiculous. As long as those in the Oath Keepers organization are operating within the law there is no danger to the public or the police. An important point to note is that if this group is sworn to uphold constitutional principles than the police may very well have something to fear if they act outside their authority. Perhaps that is where the tension arises. Many feel that the police act outside their authority, and in some cases they do. Where I live our law enforcement is NOT militarized, and we all work together for a common cause. In effect we offer assistance and a check against overuse of power. When we are on site we work at the instruction of local authorities, not separate from them. If I respond to a car accident with injuries that is my scene until I am relieved by higher authorities, and we are often asked to stay on scene and follow thru.

In cases of "national security" we are often told that "if we have nothing to hide we have nothing to fear". This goes both ways. Unfortunately not enough people understand that it is our responsibility as citizens to hold our authorities in check. That is how it works here. Hand in hand, civil, and effective. I see the Oath Keepers as a benefit to society and applaud their organization.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Bigfoot 88 said:
Sounds like conflicting reports. But not surprising. Some cops care about the citizens and want them to be protected. Others are ego-centered and care about their authority, so not surprising they got upset.

Someone has to keep the animals at bay.
Click to expand...

But, who's going to keep that someone at bay?
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Jerry said:
If a militia is operating under proper authority then they can't be arrested by civilian cops, only MPs. Anyway the police should be working with the commissioned military officer the militia is operating under and thus should have been briefed on the militia's use.
Click to expand...

It didn't sound like they were operating under anyone's authority.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Gang of white men with real weapons can enter a conflict area without worrying about being gunned down by cops. A black guy with a toy gun in a Wal-Mart in an OPEN CARRY state gets gunned down by cops.

These Oath Keeper guys are just proving the point. The world is absurd.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

BrewerBob said:
Gang of white men with real weapons can enter a conflict area without worrying about being gunned down by cops. A black guy with a toy gun in a Wal-Mart in an OPEN CARRY state gets gunned down by cops.

These Oath Keeper guys are just proving the point. The world is absurd.
Click to expand...

Maybe black guys with toy guns should stop robbing Wal-Marts then.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

Wait is this the same feurgeson police who threatened them with arrest?
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

BrewerBob said:
Gang of white men with real weapons can enter a conflict area without worrying about being gunned down by cops. A black guy with a toy gun in a Wal-Mart in an OPEN CARRY state gets gunned down by cops.

These Oath Keeper guys are just proving the point. The world is absurd.
Click to expand...

The major difference is that Oath Keepers are credentialled and vetted. Same in our CERN group. We carry identification that can be bar code scanned to verify our training, particularly helpful in large disasters. Citizens should be aware that they can participate in their communities. Assuming that because someone wears a badge they are morally superior is a sheepish perspective, there is no reason to forcefully take away rights from those who will willingly abandon them for the comfort of slavery. Authorities can be held to standards, but only if individuals make the decision to be informed and involved.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

blaxshep said:
Maybe black guys with toy guns should stop robbing Wal-Marts then.
Click to expand...

John Crawford wasn't robbing anyone.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

BrewerBob said:
John Crawford wasn't robbing anyone.
Click to expand...

Proving the point that deferring authority to people just because they have a badge is not a good idea. Sometimes cops make bad choices and act outside of their authority. They need to be held accountable and depending on them to police themselves is the result of a lazy and detached citizenry.
 
Re: Overwhelmed Ferguson Police Welcome Libertarian ‘Oath Keepers’ Militia To Protect

tech30528 said:
The major difference is that Oath Keepers are credentialled and vetted. Same in our CERN group. We carry identification that can be bar code scanned to verify our training, particularly helpful in large disasters. Citizens should be aware that they can participate in their communities. Assuming that because someone wears a badge they are morally superior is a sheepish perspective, there is no reason to forcefully take away rights from those who will willingly abandon them for the comfort of slavery. Authorities can be held to standards, but only if individuals make the decision to be informed and involved.
Click to expand...

I am strongly in favor of the right to arm oneself. But do you think if the black protestors (not the ones rioting) were marching while open carrying they would be treated with the same kid gloves and deliberation?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom