Our Neighbor Was Ordered To Take Down Her LET'S GO BRANDON Sign (1 Viewer)

[SkyChief]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

 

[Phys251]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard.

Nice people don't put LGB signs up anywhere. Go on...

In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

How do you know that the HOA has officially ordered the sign, which by your own admission is in clear violation of HOA rules, to come down?

If she won't follow the rules, maybe you should stay out of it and let a stubborn person experience natural consequences.

But then again, righties hate following rules that they don't agree with, so there's a chance this all ends poorly. I'll be here for your meltdown if it does!

 

[Airyaman]

Let the family work it out on their own. They'll find out sooner or later.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Listen to your wife, keep your nose out of it. The old lady was capable of putting a sign like that outside her house, she's capable of obeying the HOA's requirement or pay the fine. Guess HOAs are good for something, I'd never live in one.

 

[roughdraft274]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

If you owned a house and let your mother stay in it and the same scenario happened, would you want a neighbor to notify you?

There's your answer. If you would want to be notified, then yes. And do it in a friendly manner as you would want to be notified.

 

[bongsaway]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

What you do is up to you. With that said, if you live where there is a hoa I suspect you should follow the rules or pay the consequences. When the homeowners get fined, they'll be having a talk with mom. What is it that so many no longer want to follow the rules?

 

[SkyChief]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

It occurred to me that the HOA screwed up, which is good for our neighbor - and her kids.

By issuing the warning the old lady, the HOA issued the warned the wrong person. The order to take down the sign should have been issued to the OWNERS - not the tenant.

Technically, as of this moment, no proper warning has been issued, so there cannot be any fines or citations assessed (yet).

The fine clock starts 7 days after a proper warning is issued to the homeowner(s).

For now I'm gonna keep my nose out of it. If the HOA tries to assess a fine before the daughter and son in law have been warned of the improperly displayed sign, then I will intervene on their behalf.

 

[Captain America]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Yes, COA's and HOA have strict guidelines regarding signage, banners, decorations, etc. When an owner buys into the association, he is obligated to abide by the Covenant, Conditions and Restrictions as you mentioned. It's not negotiable. Some restrictions even prevent signage being placed in a window from the interior of the unit if it is visible from the exterior.

I have had to deal with both scenarios in my own professional career.

The following procedures are the best measures to take.
1. A Friendly letter/notice to the owner, citing the violation, requesting the owner to take care of it. Let owner know that in "X" amount of days, if not remedied, the association and management may entail fines, loss of privileges, etc. Usually, the problem is caused by a renter who never even heard of governing documents. There is no covenant between the association and renters. (The covenants are between the owners and the association.)

2. If the friendly notice falls upon deaf ears and the violation is not resolved in the given time frame, a "cease and desist" letter comes to the owner in the mail. It lets the owner know that they have 'X" many days to come into compliance and failure to do so could result in board action, fines, restrictions, etc.

If that doesn't work, The directors will hold a hearing to allow the offender an opportunity to explain why they are not obeying the rules. Most times, the offenders are no shows.

After the board hearing, the board will decide if the offender is in violation of the rules and, if so, impose fines. But first they must confirm that their actions are within the fine guidelines established by federal law, state law, statutes and the governing documents.

I have had to deal with flags, "back the badge" yard signs, black lives matter window signs, laser lighting. It can be a shit show. The documents are your friend.

Captain America, CMCA, AMS

 

[Captain Adverse]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Listen to your wife.

 

[reflechissez]

Thanks to everyone who has responded.

It occurred to me that the HOA screwed up, which is good for our neighbor - and her kids.

By issuing the warning the old lady, the HOA issued the warned the wrong person. The order to take down the sign should have been issued to the OWNERS - not the tenant.

Technically, as of this moment, no proper warning has been issued, so there cannot be any fines or citations assessed (yet).

The fine clock starts 7 days after a proper warning is issued to the homeowner(s).

For now I'm gonna keep my nose out of it. If the HOA tries to assess a fine before the daughter and son in law have been warned of the improperly displayed sign, then I will intervene on their behalf.

The owner is responsible for what happens on his/her property regardless of whether he/she is aware of it.

 

[Helix]

We can't even put up a handrail for the steps. Zero sympathy.

 

[Roadvirus]

HOAs. Ick.

Like i've said many times: These HOA stories remind me of that one X-Files episode.

 

[The Mark]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Maybe just casually mention to her that she might want to double check the HOA requirement about outside political signs.

Edit: But there's a fine line between warning your neighbor about something they might not know and becoming a Karen.

I think?

 

[Rexedgar]

To those complaining about HOA covenants, ( I hope that is the correct terminology,) are these rules adopted after you decide to move in to these enclaves?

 

[Captain America]

Maybe just casually mention to her that she might want to double check the HOA requirement about outside political signs.

Typically, the regs will not specify sign type. It will refer to all signage, period. Realtor signs, Open House Signs. Back the Badge Signs. BLM signs. Get up, stand up signs. Adopt a puppy signs. It don't matter a sign is a sign. That way, they cannot be accused of selective enforcement.

 

[mrjurrs]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

You should call the daughter. If she is good with it fine, but since there is a financial aspect, it never hurts to err on the side of caution. I'd also ask the daughter if she has checked for a monthly 'donation' to djt on her Mom's credit cards.

 

[Captain America]

To those complaining about HOA covenants, ( I hope that is the correct terminology,) are these rules adopted after you decide to move in to these enclaves?

Rules can be created, expanded upon, reviewed and even changed, if necessary, as long as the changes fall within the authority of the directors and adhere to the governing document guidelines for resolutions, amendments, etc..

Often, rules are outdated, antiquated, no longer serve the times. There can be many reasons rules can change. But that does not release the owners from obedience. It is good business practice to have a rules committee and also have a rules audit by a qualified association attorney, just to make sure the rules are in compliance with any federal, state, statutes that may have changed or been added to since the rules were established in the governing documents.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Politely call the daughter.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Nice people don't put LGB signs up anywhere. Go on...

Do nice people put Biden-Harris signs in their yard? asking for a friend

How do you know that the HOA has officially ordered the sign, which by your own admission is in clear violation of HOA rules, to come down?

If she won't follow the rules, maybe you should stay out of it and let a stubborn person experience natural consequences.

But then again, righties hate following rules that they don't agree with, so there's a chance this all ends poorly. I'll be here for your meltdown if it does!

"Come and Take it"

 

[Captain America]

We can't even put up a handrail for the steps. Zero sympathy.

It helps to understand the hierarchy of authority in regards to the governing documents. Your directors may be sympathetic to the cause but sometimes the architectural guidelines may prohibit them from acting upon it as the directors do not have the authority, by simple resolution, to make such changes as the architectural guidelines supersedes board authorities. The by-laws may provide a way to amend those guidelines but it will most likely require a lot of legal expenses and a 67% communitywide vote. My code of ethics does not allow me to give legal advice so I would refer to your association attprney if there becomes a question as to whether the directors have the authority to change certain rules.

Here is some information regard association authority provided by The Community Association Institute (CAI.)

The general order of authority for association governing documents is:

Living | www.caionline.org 12

1. Recorded map, plat, or plan – Some type of a map that is recorded by the County Recorder’s office is essential. This helps define ownership for common areas and units in addition to proper location.
2. Declaration and covenants, conditions, & restrictions (CC&Rs) – These documents specify the right of ownership, including the use, requirements and restrictions of the property.
3. Articles of incorporation (if incorporated) – Articles establish the corporate structure of the association. They also may definite basic purposes and powers and identify the initial Board of Directors.
4. Bylaws – These documents contain formally adopted administration and management regulations for the association. They outline operational procedures such as voting, quorum requirements, Board meetings, notice requirements, office election rules and other similar information.
5. Rules and regulations – These documents formalize and enact rules and regulations that are formally adopted by the association Board. They outline owners’ rights and obligations, architectural guidelines, enforcement and collection procedures, and rules for using the association facilities.
6. General resolutions – These are stand-alone documents that specify a rule or regulation that is formally adopted to govern the association. Each rule must include the purpose, authority, scope and specifications.

(All the while knowing that none of the authority levels mentioned above, cannot make any rules or regulations that conflict with the constitution, federal laws, state laws and statutes.)

 

[Helix]

It helps to understand the hierarchy of authority in regards to the governing documents. Your directors may be sympathetic to the cause but sometimes the architectural guidelines may prohibit them from acting upon it as the directors do not have the authority, by simple resolution, to make such changes as the architectural guidelines supersedes board authorities. The by-laws may provide a way to amend those guidelines but it will most likely require a lot of legal expenses and a 67% communitywide vote. My code of ethics does not allow me to give legal advice so I would refer to your association attprney if there becomes a question as to whether the directors have the authority to change certain rules.

Here is some information regard association authority provided by The Community Association Institute (CAI.)

The general order of authority for association governing documents is:

Living | www.caionline.org 12

1. Recorded map, plat, or plan – Some type of a map that is recorded by the County Recorder’s office is essential. This helps define ownership for common areas and units in addition to proper location.
2. Declaration and covenants, conditions, & restrictions (CC&Rs) – These documents specify the right of ownership, including the use, requirements and restrictions of the property.
3. Articles of incorporation (if incorporated) – Articles establish the corporate structure of the association. They also may definite basic purposes and powers and identify the initial Board of Directors.
4. Bylaws – These documents contain formally adopted administration and management regulations for the association. They outline operational procedures such as voting, quorum requirements, Board meetings, notice requirements, office election rules and other similar information.
5. Rules and regulations – These documents formalize and enact rules and regulations that are formally adopted by the association Board. They outline owners’ rights and obligations, architectural guidelines, enforcement and collection procedures, and rules for using the association facilities.
6. General resolutions – These are stand-alone documents that specify a rule or regulation that is formally adopted to govern the association. Each rule must include the purpose, authority, scope and specifications.

(All the while knowing that none of the authority levels mentioned above, cannot make any rules or regulations that conflict with the constitution, federal laws, state laws and statutes.)

If everyone doesn't have a handrail, no one can have a handrail. That's the rule. It is what it is.

 

[Deuce]

HOAs. Ick.

Like i've said many times: These HOA stories remind me of that one X-Files episode.

Last time I lived with an HOA the next door neighbor, a member of the board, turned out to be some kind of doomsday prophecy nutter.

 

[Lisa]

Our neighbor is an elderly widow. She is very nice, and lets us take as many fresh limes and pomegranates from her trees as we want, as she doesn't really like either fruit.

She likes Trump.

Monday (3 days ago) she put a Let's Go Brandon sign in her front yard. In most neighborhoods putting political campaign signs in the yard is not a problem, but we are in an HOA. There are strict rules and regulations regarding political signs and holiday decorations within the HOA grounds.

Basically, the (CC&Rs) rule of thumb is it's OK to have political signs or holiday decorations INSIDE the home, and visible from the street, but NOT OK to place them OUTSIDE the home, and visible from the street.

Naturally, the HOA ordered her to remove the sign. She has 7 days to comply. If the sign is still up by next Monday, the HOA will issue a formal citation, and the homeowner will be fined. The actual homeowner is her daughter and Son-in-Law who live elsewhere.

I doubt that the daughter and son in law know that mom has been warned about the HOA infraction, and that they could be fined.

I feel compelled to notify the daughter (years ago she gave me her ph# in case of emergencies), but my wife says to keep my nose out of other people's business.

What should I do?

Tell her to call the ACLU. As much as I hate the idea of LGB and Donald Trump, those signs are protected free speech. HOAs are evil and should be disbanded.

 

[SkyChief]

Tell her to call the ACLU. As much as I hate the idea of LGB and Donald Trump, those signs are protected free speech. HOAs are evil and should be disbanded.

HOAs are unique with regards to free speech.

Common Areas (in this case the neighbor's front yard is considered part of the "common area") are subject to rules and regulations in accordance with the Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&Rs).

Compliance with the CC&Rs is not optional. This is prerequisite to purchasing a property within an HOA.

The ACLU has no authority in an HOA.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Maybe it's worth it to the old gal.

I have a friend where the HOA is clearly left wing leaning.

They harrass anyone putting up conservative signs.

So, he's been routinely putting them up across the street from the subdivision. In droves.