• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA

spanky

Banned
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
5,431
Reaction score
979
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA

North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA - Forbes

According to the survey, 34 percent of Americans would favor making Christianity their official state religion while less than half (47 percent) oppose the concept. Thirty-two percent of those polled indicated that they would also favor a constitutional amendment that would make Christianity the official religion of the United States with just over half (52 percent) opposing the notion.

snip

Not surprisingly, Republicans were more likely to support Christianity as the official state and national religion with 55 percent supporting the idea for their state and 46 percent in favor of making their Christian faith the official religion of the United States.
 

Rainman05

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
10,032
Reaction score
4,964
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Most European countries don't have a "state religion" as in an official state regulated religion.

But most European countries have different standards for what is a religion or not.
For instance, in my country, there is a population number you need to have, as a religious cult, before you are considered a religion and get all the benefits you get from being a religion. And that makes sense.
 

Risky Thicket

Sewer Rat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
31,030
Reaction score
32,260
Location
With Yo Mama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I don't want any official national religion.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I'm really of two minds on the topic.

From the article:

While every religious belief practiced by Americans is to be honored and respected—so long as such belief is not intended to do harm or infringe upon the rights and beliefs of others—once a particular religion is chosen above all others as the ‘official’ religion, it becomes virtually impossible to suggest that the government remains neutral and offers equal respect and deference to all such religions in equal measure.

Choosing one religion as the ‘official’ religion is tantamount to saying that “the chosen” is, somehow, better—or more correct—than another belief practice.

This is as fundamentally un-American as it gets.

So by naming the Blad Eagle the "official" national bird, or the American Goldfinch the "official" NJ state bird, the governments and people of either are suggesting that the named bird is "somehow, better—or more correct—than another"?

I don't think so.

I think the Bald Eagle is pretty cool (I'm a good deal more ambivilent about the Goldfinch) but I wouldn't necessarially say that either is my "favorite" bird (in so far as I would be inclined to have a "favorite" bird of any species) or that I have any more respect or deference for theses named birds because of their "official" status.

Think of all the "official" symbols (for lack of a better term) both nationally and locally.

Are any of them given any "real" privilege?

What about the official "American's Creed"?

Do any of you know the official "American's Creed"?

How many of you, be honest now, actually knew that there was an official "American's Creed"?

Like I was saying, making something "official" isn't necessarially all that big of a deal.

For the most part it's done for show, because people (for whatever reason) like symbols.

Since ~80% of Americans are at least nominally Christian it seems to me that Christianity is already something of an unofficial, de facto, national religion.

On it's face, and so long as Christianity wasn't afforded any special privilege, and so long as other religions weren't persecuted in anny way, it wouldn't make any difference to me whether or not some of the states (of course not all of them would) made Christianity their official state religion.

But of course that's just on the face of things and my non-objection is realted more to reason and logic than to legislation (which often times is neither reasonable or logical).

It's clear that the Constitution and subesquent SCOTUS rulings preclude the very concept of an official state religion so this is knind of a moot point from the get-go.

Though it does seem that the several states have been flexing their muscle of late in respect to federalisim and taking back some of the authority that the central government has assumed for itself.

So, in primcipal, no objection but in practice I just can't see it happening.
 

Cardinal

Respected on both sides
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
78,424
Reaction score
57,851
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I don't get it -- they're already in the solid majority. If Christianity were adopted as the state religion would Christians feel more Christ-y?
 

JC Callender

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
6,477
Reaction score
3,269
Location
Metro Detroit
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It would just make Christianity here more political than it already is. :2no4:
 

Bonzai

Banned
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
3,328
Reaction score
503
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Maybe we'll get rewarded by the Vatican by being named "Most Christian of Nations"...............Apt title for a nation hellbent on getting back to the Dark Ages..................
 

douglas

Active member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
458
Reaction score
290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Although Christians are the majority in America, our government has been growing more and more secular in their actions. For example, although almost all public schools teach evolution, albeit with ID as a talking point, 46% of Americans are completely sold on creationism. Only around 15% believe in a purely secular form of evolution. evo_graph.jpg
This hasn't changed much over the years, so the acceptance of evolution isn't due to a change in belief but a change in power. The religious right seem to be losing power to secularism. You can be certain that secular morality and education would be the first to go if Christianity was our official religion. No more science, no more medicine, no more anything, unless it's deemed ok by the church. That's not the future we should want, it would be the end to liberty in America.
 

Summerwind

Hot Flash Mama
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
11,010
Reaction score
5,149
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
I'm really of two minds on the topic.

From the article:



So by naming the Blad Eagle the "official" national bird, or the American Goldfinch the "official" NJ state bird, the governments and people of either are suggesting that the named bird is "somehow, better—or more correct—than another"?

(snip)
This analogy is complete crap. National/state birds get a protect from being killed benefit, otherwise there is none. Religions get TONS of benefits in not paying taxes (state, local, or federal regardless of how much "profit" they pocket or how much land they own. Not the same at all, so if one was to pick a national religion, it might in the long run flavor which religions get federal recognition and such.
 

braymoore

Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
173
Reaction score
63
Location
Rio de Janeiro
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Wasn't the whole reason for the pilgrims leaving Europe and coming to America to have freedom of religion? It's also one of the Bill of Rights. I don't think America should ever have a national religion. Everyone should be able to worship however they please.
 

Xsnake1

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
69
Reaction score
13
Location
Rochester, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
We should have Christianity as our national religion. Our government is becoming too secular and immoral and we need more Christian values
 

Xsnake1

Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
69
Reaction score
13
Location
Rochester, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
If we had more Christianity in our government, it would probably stop people from becoming ******* atheists.
 

Morality Games

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
3,733
Reaction score
1,156
Location
Iowa
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Wasn't the whole reason for the pilgrims leaving Europe and coming to America to have freedom of religion? It's also one of the Bill of Rights. I don't think America should ever have a national religion. Everyone should be able to worship however they please.

That's how we idealize it in retrospect. The Pilgrims left to claim the New World and create Massachusetts, which became religiously oppressive in its own right. Rhode Island (Rogue Island to the political authority of Massachusetts) gained traction as a colony due to an exodus of religious and social dissidents from the mainland.

If we had more Christianity in our government, it would probably stop people from becoming ******* atheists.

Something it would only do as yet another red herring to distract people from the country's economic and political decline.

Even if the Republican Party could ban abortions nationwide, it wouldn't do so as long as the issue could be stretched out long enough to win them multiple elections.
 
Last edited:

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
National/state birds get a protect from being killed benefit, otherwise there is none.

Can you cite a few state laws giving special protections to state birds that don't also related to their potential status as migratory nongame birds or endangered species?

I know that in NJ we afford the American Goldfinch no special protections due to its status as an official state bird (though it is protected under 16 USC § 2912 along with most other migratory nongame birds).

Likewise, the Bald Eagle is protected both as a migratory nongame bird and as an endangered (or threatened?) species but there is no law that says you can't kill one simply because it holds symbolic national signifigance.

Other states may specifically protect a particular species of bird as a consequence of their symbolic status but I have no knowledge of any such case.

Unless you can demonstrate that such is the case I'd call this component of your argument a swing and a miss.

Religions get TONS of benefits in not paying taxes (state, local, or federal regardless of how much "profit" they pocket or how much land they own.

Actually religions don't get any special tax benefits because they're religions.

They get tax breaks under 26 U.S.C. § 501(c) as a consequence of their nonprofit status.

If you look into 501(c) you'll note that there are plenty of organizations (youth sports, societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals, & etc...) that are granted tax exempt status under the same law.

By your standard the Little League gets the same TONS of benefits as religions.

Not very compelling, in my opinion.

I'd call this component of your argument strike two.

Not the same at all, so if one was to pick a national religion, it might in the long run flavor which religions get federal recognition and such.

I guesed you missed the part where I said:

soot said:
On it's face, and so long as Christianity wasn't afforded any special privilege, and so long as other religions weren't persecuted in any way, it wouldn't make any difference to me whether or not some of the states (of course not all of them would) made Christianity their official state religion.

And don't get me wrong, I recognize that there is a slippery slope argument that can be made, so it hardly surprises me that some over-imaginative someone (you) is trying to make it.

I'm just not the sort to get all hysterical over the very slight potential that something might, potentially, maybe, at some point in the distant future, happen because we grant some religion a speical symbolic status today.
 

Paschendale

Uncanny
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
12,510
Reaction score
12,604
Location
New York City
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Then one third of Americans don't believe in one of its core principles. This is not a nation built on any religion. Religion has no force of law behind it. This is and always has been a secular nation.

If we had more Christianity in our government, it would probably stop people from becoming ******* atheists.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
 

Dr. Chuckles

King Conspiratard
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
12,895
Reaction score
2,909
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Most European countries don't have a "state religion" as in an official state regulated religion.

But most European countries have different standards for what is a religion or not.
For instance, in my country, there is a population number you need to have, as a religious cult, before you are considered a religion and get all the benefits you get from being a religion. And that makes sense.


actually a number of european nation have state churches. The difference between that and what we see many other places is that such entities are administered within a context of western liberalism
 
Last edited:

Dezaad

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
5,057
Reaction score
2,424
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA

North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA - Forbes

According to the survey, 34 percent of Americans would favor making Christianity their official state religion while less than half (47 percent) oppose the concept. Thirty-two percent of those polled indicated that they would also favor a constitutional amendment that would make Christianity the official religion of the United States with just over half (52 percent) opposing the notion.

snip

Not surprisingly, Republicans were more likely to support Christianity as the official state and national religion with 55 percent supporting the idea for their state and 46 percent in favor of making their Christian faith the official religion of the United States.

I wonder who gets to decide what 'Christianity' is? Would we have an orthodoxy committee? How would they be appointed/elected?
 

Surtr

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Messages
7,017
Reaction score
2,980
Location
The greatest planet in the world.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA

North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA - Forbes

According to the survey, 34 percent of Americans would favor making Christianity their official state religion while less than half (47 percent) oppose the concept. Thirty-two percent of those polled indicated that they would also favor a constitutional amendment that would make Christianity the official religion of the United States with just over half (52 percent) opposing the notion.

snip

Not surprisingly, Republicans were more likely to support Christianity as the official state and national religion with 55 percent supporting the idea for their state and 46 percent in favor of making their Christian faith the official religion of the United States.

Well, too bad.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

They can cry moar if they like. It's not going to happen. Plus, the last time we had established religion in this country, we went around hanging people with the "wrong religion", and murdering "witches".
 

Grendel

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
704
Reaction score
298
Location
Northern Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
we need more Christian values

So get more Christian principles if you don't feel you have enough. But leave the rest of us alone.

If we had more Christianity in our government, it would probably stop people from becoming ******* atheists.

Do you realize that you just said you want the government to tell people what to think? I hope you don't mistakenly consider yourself a "small government" conservative or an "individualist" when you think like this.
 

Grendel

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
704
Reaction score
298
Location
Northern Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I don't get it -- they're already in the solid majority. If Christianity were adopted as the state religion would Christians feel more Christ-y?

These are people who are obsessed with how everyone else is living, probably so they can avoid looking at how they're living, themselves. They think that Christianity isn't about how they live their lives, but about how they force you to live your life. They're theocratic authoritarians, and they're openly hostile to even the concept of freedom.
 

Carleen

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
7,855
Reaction score
3,228
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA

North Carolina Religion Bill Killed-But One Third Of Americans Want Christianity As Official Religion Of USA - Forbes

According to the survey, 34 percent of Americans would favor making Christianity their official state religion while less than half (47 percent) oppose the concept. Thirty-two percent of those polled indicated that they would also favor a constitutional amendment that would make Christianity the official religion of the United States with just over half (52 percent) opposing the notion.

snip

Not surprisingly, Republicans were more likely to support Christianity as the official state and national religion with 55 percent supporting the idea for their state and 46 percent in favor of making their Christian faith the official religion of the United States.

There should be no national religion in a country that is a melting pot of all religions.
 

Cyrylek

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
1,715
Location
Boston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I am pretty sure that many of those "in favor" of making Christianity the official religion have in mind no more than symbolic confirmation of cultural unity, in a country that is predominantly Christian. After all, Denmark, Norway, England and Wales all have official state religion, without any detriment to religious freedoms or de facto separation of church and state.

The difference, of course, is that in their cases this is historical legacy. Our legacy is quite different, USA having been secular by design from inception. Breaking with tradition so firmly established for the sake of a symbolic gesture just never happens. If it will ever happen, it will be under serious pressure from religious groups intending to go much farther than symbols. Not that I think this is a real possibility.
 

Quag

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
29,047
Reaction score
12,676
Location
Earth
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
More citizens oppose it than are for it that is good
 

Cyrylek

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
1,715
Location
Boston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
If we had more Christianity in our government, it would probably stop people from becoming ******* atheists.

Actually, it would make people turn atheistic in droves, with some converting to Islam or Judaism. After all, distrust of government is a core American value :)
 

Cyrylek

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
3,467
Reaction score
1,715
Location
Boston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I wonder who gets to decide what 'Christianity' is? Would we have an orthodoxy committee? How would they be appointed/elected?

Nah. I think the plan is to amend the Constitution thusly: "Christianity is the official religion of the United States of America. It means absolutely anything any citizen or permanent resident thinks in means".

Also, they will put a cute little crucifix around the eagle's neck.
 
Top Bottom