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Oklahoma School Cancels Bible Study, Morning Prayer Over PA System After Parents Push Back

Gordy327

Gordy327

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From the article:

An Oklahoma school district has shut down morning prayers being broadcasted over the PA system at an elementary school after receiving criticism from parents.
Last month, parents discovered that Prague Elementary School had been sending students to Bible study and saying morning prayer over the school's PA system.
An anonymous parent told KFOR News that some students had been 'getting picked on or bullied' because they were not participating in the school-sanctioned religious activities.
"I went to the principal and told her that what they are doing is illegal," said the parent. "But they told me that because it is students technically leading it, it isn’t."
Prague Public School District eventually shut down the morning prayers and Bible study due to the backlash from parents. They released a statement saying the district "is dedicated to following the law and protecting the rights of every student to freely exercise his or her religion."
However, not everyone is happy with the decision. State Superintendent Ryan Walters posted a video on X where he vowed to "take a stand for our students’ freedom of religion, their freedom to express their religious beliefs."
Jeremy Telman, a law professor at Oklahoma City University, said that Walters was '100% incorrect' in claiming that any students' freedom to express their religious belief was under attack 'because the school isn’t allowing prayers over the intercom.'
"In fact, the rights of students of the other students were violated when the school was broadcasting those prayers," Telman explained to KFOR News.
According to the Oklahoman, the Freedom From Religion Foundation called for Walters' resignation.


Clearly this school was in the wrong and violating the Constitution. It's like I always say, the separation of church and state must always be absolute, absolutely!
 
Gordy327 said:
From the article:

An Oklahoma school district has shut down morning prayers being broadcasted over the PA system at an elementary school after receiving criticism from parents.
Last month, parents discovered that Prague Elementary School had been sending students to Bible study and saying morning prayer over the school's PA system.
An anonymous parent told KFOR News that some students had been 'getting picked on or bullied' because they were not participating in the school-sanctioned religious activities.
"I went to the principal and told her that what they are doing is illegal," said the parent. "But they told me that because it is students technically leading it, it isn’t."
Prague Public School District eventually shut down the morning prayers and Bible study due to the backlash from parents. They released a statement saying the district "is dedicated to following the law and protecting the rights of every student to freely exercise his or her religion."
However, not everyone is happy with the decision. State Superintendent Ryan Walters posted a video on X where he vowed to "take a stand for our students’ freedom of religion, their freedom to express their religious beliefs."
Jeremy Telman, a law professor at Oklahoma City University, said that Walters was '100% incorrect' in claiming that any students' freedom to express their religious belief was under attack 'because the school isn’t allowing prayers over the intercom.'
"In fact, the rights of students of the other students were violated when the school was broadcasting those prayers," Telman explained to KFOR News.
According to the Oklahoman, the Freedom From Religion Foundation called for Walters' resignation.


Clearly this school was in the wrong and violating the Constitution. It's like I always say, the separation of church and state must always be absolute, absolutely!
Click to expand...
I read about this earlier. Is it true if the kids lesd the prayer (which is bullshit to begin with) it's constitutional? It's no longer about freedom of religion but being able to force your religion (Christianity for the most part) on others. Good for the parents sticking up to the christian nationalists.
 
Old 'N Chill said:
That should only happen in Catholic or Christian schools, never in public schools. Glad the parents spoke out and put a stop to that nonsense.
Click to expand...
Hari Seldon said:
I read about this earlier. Is it true if the kids lesd the prayer (which is bullshit to begin with) it's constitutional? It's no longer about freedom of religion but being able to force your religion (Christianity for the most part) on others. Good for the parents sticking up to the christian nationalists.
Click to expand...
Agreed and agreed.
 
HIP56948 said:
According to some estimates, there are over 4,000 religions.
So, to be fair, lets let the schools broadcast these religions every morning.
True, the students won't learn shit, but they'll be bathe in the spirit of ...ah 4000 opinions.
Click to expand...
It's the same thing with religious displays during holidays. Either all must be allowed, or none at all. The government cannot pick and choose religious favorites. But it seems christians think they're above the Constitution or every other religion and want to be special. They are not!
 
HIP56948 said:
According to some estimates, there are over 4,000 religions.
So, to be fair, lets let the schools broadcast these religions every morning.
True, the students won't learn shit, but they'll be bathe in the spirit of ...ah 4000 opinions.
Click to expand...

Why am I imagining that if Islam prayers were broadcast, or the beliefs of Voodoo were being relayed, there would very quickly be a rule forbidding all such activities?
 
Isidore said:
Why am I imagining that if Islam prayers were broadcast, or the beliefs of Voodoo being relayed, there would very quickly be a rule forbidding all such activities?
Click to expand...
And restrictions would be advocated by christians too. Can't have competing religions or prayers, now can we?
 
The Christian rights involvement in politics and attempts to take control of peoples lives is going to create more and more of this type of push back. What people might have once accepted as a well meaning Christians doing well meaning stuff is now seen more as the sharp end of the stick that they want to poke into your life. I don't think there is a way to go back on this, but the reality of the situation is that the far right Christians have made the bed that all Christians must now lie in.
 
Ishm said:
The Christian rights involvement in politics and attempts to take control of peoples lives is going to create more and more of this type of push back. What people might have once accepted as a well meaning Christians doing well meaning stuff is now seen more as the sharp end of the stick that they want to poke into your life. I don't think there is a way to go back on this, but the reality of the situation is that the far right Christians have made the bed that all Christians must now lie in.
Click to expand...
The problem is, they want the rest of us to lie in that bed with them too.
 
Gordy327 said:
Clearly this school was in the wrong and violating the Constitution. It's like I always say, the separation of church and state must always be absolute, absolutely!
Click to expand...
The U.S. Department of Education's Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer and Religious Expression in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, May 15, 2023, offers some relevant information regarding the extent to which prayer in public schools is legally protected. The following included:

Although the Constitution forbids public school officials acting in their official capacities from directing or favoring prayer, students and teachers do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." The Supreme Court has made clear that "private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression." Moreover, not all religious speech that takes place in public schools or at school-sponsored events is governmental speech. For example, "nothing in the Constitution . . . prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the schoolday," and therefore students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other comparable conversations or activities. Students may also speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious matters just as they may do with regard to, for example, political matters.
 
Along Came Jones said:
The U.S. Department of Education's Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer and Religious Expression in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, May 15, 2023, offers some relevant information regarding the extent to which prayer in public schools is legally protected. The following included:

Although the Constitution forbids public school officials acting in their official capacities from directing or favoring prayer, students and teachers do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." The Supreme Court has made clear that "private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression." Moreover, not all religious speech that takes place in public schools or at school-sponsored events is governmental speech. For example, "nothing in the Constitution . . . prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the schoolday," and therefore students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other comparable conversations or activities. Students may also speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious matters just as they may do with regard to, for example, political matters.
Click to expand...

Private speech, by definition, does not occur on PUBLIC address system... That would be the PA mentioned in the article..
 
Along Came Jones said:
The U.S. Department of Education's Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer and Religious Expression in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools, May 15, 2023, offers some relevant information regarding the extent to which prayer in public schools is legally protected. The following included:

Although the Constitution forbids public school officials acting in their official capacities from directing or favoring prayer, students and teachers do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." The Supreme Court has made clear that "private religious speech, far from being a First Amendment orphan, is as fully protected under the Free Speech Clause as secular private expression." Moreover, not all religious speech that takes place in public schools or at school-sponsored events is governmental speech. For example, "nothing in the Constitution . . . prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the schoolday," and therefore students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other comparable conversations or activities. Students may also speak to, and attempt to persuade, their peers about religious matters just as they may do with regard to, for example, political matters.
Click to expand...

See what happens with free speech when a teacher hangs a rainbow flag in the classroom.
 
BlueTex said:
Private speech, by definition, does not occur on PUBLIC address system... That would be the PA mentioned in the article..
Click to expand...
The paragraph I quoted does not claim otherwise. Use of the PA system would be unconstitutional governmental speech.
 
Along Came Jones said:
The paragraph I quoted does not claim otherwise. Use of the PA system would be unconstitutional governmental speech.
Click to expand...
Therein lies the problem with the situation mentioned in the article. Prayers were being broadcast over the PA system. That makes the school liable.
 
Gordy327 said:
From the article:

An Oklahoma school district has shut down morning prayers being broadcasted over the PA system at an elementary school after receiving criticism from parents.
Last month, parents discovered that Prague Elementary School had been sending students to Bible study and saying morning prayer over the school's PA system.
An anonymous parent told KFOR News that some students had been 'getting picked on or bullied' because they were not participating in the school-sanctioned religious activities.
"I went to the principal and told her that what they are doing is illegal," said the parent. "But they told me that because it is students technically leading it, it isn’t."
Prague Public School District eventually shut down the morning prayers and Bible study due to the backlash from parents. They released a statement saying the district "is dedicated to following the law and protecting the rights of every student to freely exercise his or her religion."
However, not everyone is happy with the decision. State Superintendent Ryan Walters posted a video on X where he vowed to "take a stand for our students’ freedom of religion, their freedom to express their religious beliefs."
Jeremy Telman, a law professor at Oklahoma City University, said that Walters was '100% incorrect' in claiming that any students' freedom to express their religious belief was under attack 'because the school isn’t allowing prayers over the intercom.'
"In fact, the rights of students of the other students were violated when the school was broadcasting those prayers," Telman explained to KFOR News.
According to the Oklahoman, the Freedom From Religion Foundation called for Walters' resignation.


Clearly this school was in the wrong and violating the Constitution. It's like I always say, the separation of church and state must always be absolute, absolutely!
Click to expand...
Ok let's go over for the tenth time how the christian right isn't trying to push their religion on everyone else, unconstitutionally.
 
Gordy327 said:
Therein lies the problem with the situation mentioned in the article. Prayers were being broadcast over the PA system. That makes the school liable.
Click to expand...
The story also mentions Bible study which the reporter and our fellow commenters do not discuss. The DoE guidance indicates that study groups not led or taught by school employees as part of their employment is constitutionally permissible. Same goes for private prayer and discussion during school hours. Use of the PA system would be, as I've acknowledged, unconstitutional governmental speech.
 
Look at the Christian fascist running the schools. This is hardly a one-off.

"Since Ryan Walters was sworn in as Oklahoma’s superintendent of public instruction in January, he’s called for prayer in public schools and hanging the Ten Commandments in classrooms.

He’s adopted regulations prohibiting school libraries from circulating books with “sexualized content” and requiring educators to tell parents if their child changes their gender identity.

...“He is doing all of these things so that he can advance politically, and it’s unfortunate because it’s going to happen with so much discrimination and pain in the wake of it,” Fleck said.

Walters has harsh words for those who push back on him. He called the state teachers union a “terrorist organization” during a legislative hearing. He branded journalists “a true enemy of taxpayers” for publishing criticism from a GOP state legislative committee chair, whom he called a liar."


www.nbcnews.com

How Oklahoma’s schools superintendent became the state’s top culture warrior

Ryan Walters, who called a teachers union a “terrorist organization” and pushed for prayer in public schools, offers a preview of what could be coming in other Republican-led states.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Gordy327 said:
From the article:

An Oklahoma school district has shut down morning prayers being broadcasted over the PA system at an elementary school after receiving criticism from parents.
Last month, parents discovered that Prague Elementary School had been sending students to Bible study and saying morning prayer over the school's PA system.
An anonymous parent told KFOR News that some students had been 'getting picked on or bullied' because they were not participating in the school-sanctioned religious activities.
"I went to the principal and told her that what they are doing is illegal," said the parent. "But they told me that because it is students technically leading it, it isn’t."
Prague Public School District eventually shut down the morning prayers and Bible study due to the backlash from parents. They released a statement saying the district "is dedicated to following the law and protecting the rights of every student to freely exercise his or her religion."
However, not everyone is happy with the decision. State Superintendent Ryan Walters posted a video on X where he vowed to "take a stand for our students’ freedom of religion, their freedom to express their religious beliefs."
Jeremy Telman, a law professor at Oklahoma City University, said that Walters was '100% incorrect' in claiming that any students' freedom to express their religious belief was under attack 'because the school isn’t allowing prayers over the intercom.'
"In fact, the rights of students of the other students were violated when the school was broadcasting those prayers," Telman explained to KFOR News.
According to the Oklahoman, the Freedom From Religion Foundation called for Walters' resignation.


Clearly this school was in the wrong and violating the Constitution. It's like I always say, the separation of church and state must always be absolute, absolutely!
Click to expand...

The problem here is when a dominate religious segment oppresses minority segments.

I'm all for spirituality, including formal religious denominations. I believe it is enriching in our lives, and would like students to be aware of the various Faiths & Denominations, as well as their having the ability to learn & practice them if they so choose.

But it seems many of Faith are simply not able able to accept others of dislike Faiths, and want their personal Faith impressed upon others. I have no idea why this is so, but since it is - it seems not broadcasting a dominating Faith's prayers was the safest way to avoid domineering oppression.

As for me, I'd love it if the school let the kids of other Faiths lead a brief morning prayer time on a rotating basis. But would the dominate Christian segment allow that? Perhaps, not. Sadly. And to the kids' loss.
 
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