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Okham's Razor

I agree with your comment about government workers. The comment "we all know what gov't workers..." is insulting a lot of hard working sincere citizens. Nothing like viewing the world in false stereotypes.

As a life time CS I thank you on behalf of those of us who work hard for this country. I do admit this is not all of us.
 
I pay 33% in federal income tax

Unless you are earning several millions in annual income, this is simply not correct. However, I am open to being disproven. Please post your numbers so that we can check your math, and if you are indeed correct, I will formally and publicly apologize for what I am about to say:

I think that if you have the scientific background you claim, then you have the math skills to know that what you have just said is false - which would make you a liar.

Four Options here:

1. You make well into the 7 figures
2. You do not have the scientific background you claim
3. You do not pay the effective FIT rate you claim
4. The CBO, the IRS, the Tax Foundation, and everyone else who has ever looked at federal tax rates all can't do math.
 
I agree with your comment about government workers. The comment "we all know what gov't workers..." is insulting a lot of hard working sincere citizens. Nothing like viewing the world in false stereotypes.

Actually that's stereotype because it has a solid basis in reality. Because government workers are less (in aggregate) likely to face censure for mediocre performance, they (in aggregate) face less incentive to put forth increased effort.
 
Dion -

Of course, when you are locked up in the Newspeak of Big Brother you endlessly repeat their terminology without ever questioning its value - the loaded economic numbers, "Al Queda," this ubiquitous term for anyone Big Brother wants to blame for its own aggressive, offensive nationalism and illegal invasions, the "Taliban" who all supposedly died after the initial Afghanistan invasion under Bush, the ISI and the Haqquani network, who were all created and trained by U.S. intelligence, like the Chechnyan rebels created to antagonize Russia, this whole fabric of unreality, the bailouts not repaid, but losses left off balance sheets in the "new and approved" accounting practices, missing govmnt billions, peoples shot and beaten on the streets by authorities and no prosecution, guns everywhere, we have multi-media social networks, cellphone and Facebook spying shenanigans, to keep track and subvert political speech and opposition with real time survelliance, the endless Ministry of Truth historical revisionism going on day-to-day like how Thom Hartman today repeated the lie, "the U.S. no longer tortures," and the constant and cultivated illusions and facsimilie freedoms maintained by the Party, you know "the Govmnt with 2 Right Wings," and is a perversion of all that is ethical and sacred, it is beneath our principles, intellect and is a complete falsehood in every aspect, which is the whole point behind the Thought Police in the first place, and then we have your beginning thread post, completely brainwashed.


th
 
Unless you are earning several millions in annual income, this is simply not correct. However, I am open to being disproven. Please post your numbers so that we can check your math, and if you are indeed correct, I will formally and publicly apologize for what I am about to say:

I think that if you have the scientific background you claim, then you have the math skills to know that what you have just said is false - which would make you a liar.

Four Options here:

1. You make well into the 7 figures
2. You do not have the scientific background you claim
3. You do not pay the effective FIT rate you claim
4. The CBO, the IRS, the Tax Foundation, and everyone else who has ever looked at federal tax rates all can't do math.

I make 7 figures and I don't pay an effective federal income tax of 33%-more like 23%. She must be counting federal income, FICA etc as well, She is fibbing
 
Actually that's stereotype because it has a solid basis in reality. Because government workers are less (in aggregate) likely to face censure for mediocre performance, they (in aggregate) face less incentive to put forth increased effort.

depends on who you are talking about. I knew a woman-she was gay and had no family, who easily put in 14 hours a day as a manager at the Post office. The District Manager in Cincinnati up till about 4 months ago was an immigrant from Taiwan who came to the US speaking almost no English with no college degree. She became one of the most powerful women in the USPS-mainly by her intelligence and work ethic. I remember reading a deposition she had given in a trial. someone asked her how she was able to run the big postal plant without any experience in that area of the PO. Easy she said-you work 18 hour days for 6 months and you learn.

I also know a couple Harvard Law Magnas who were federal prosecutors. They work hard and smart. Indeed, at least in Cincinnati, the Federal public defenders and the DOJ attorneys are highly respected as top trial attorneys.

FBI special agents and DEA special agents tend to be top flight as well
 
Unless you are earning several millions in annual income, this is simply not correct. However, I am open to being disproven. Please post your numbers so that we can check your math, and if you are indeed correct, I will formally and publicly apologize for what I am about to say:

I think that if you have the scientific background you claim, then you have the math skills to know that what you have just said is false - which would make you a liar.

Four Options here:

1. You make well into the 7 figures
2. You do not have the scientific background you claim
3. You do not pay the effective FIT rate you claim
4. The CBO, the IRS, the Tax Foundation, and everyone else who has ever looked at federal tax rates all can't do math.

I do not earn several million per year.

I do not want this thread to be about me ...yet I cannot resist a challenge when I know what I am saying. Tell me what you want proof of ... the income earned and federal tax bracket in which I fall and if I have a degree in science?

Lets go!

Only no apologies necessary ... lets have vauge be the person to verify the science degree and if my income falls in the range of the tax bracket I mentioned. The loser makes a donation to Debate Politics. You and I can both decide the amount ...yet 50$ sounds fair to me! I choose vauge because of previous DP donations he would have access to my first and last name from my debit card and my licensure can be verified.





vauge can decide if he agrees.

Lets ... take this to The Loft!
 
I do not earn several million per year.

I do not want this thread to be about me ...yet I cannot resist a challenge when I know what I am saying. Tell me what you want proof of ... the income earned and federal tax bracket in which I fall and if I have a degree in science?

Lets go!

Only no apologies necessary ... lets have vauge be the person to verify the science degree and if my income falls in the range of the tax bracket I mentioned. The loser makes a donation to Debate Politics. You and I can both decide the amount ...yet 50$ sounds fair to me! I choose vauge because of previous DP donations he would have access to my first and last name from my debit card and my licensure can be verified.





vauge can decide if he agrees.

Lets ... take this to The Loft!


yes, I thought so, you don't know the difference between an effective rate and a marginal rate
 
Unless you are earning several millions in annual income, this is simply not correct. However, I am open to being disproven. Please post your numbers so that we can check your math, and if you are indeed correct, I will formally and publicly apologize for what I am about to say:

I think that if you have the scientific background you claim, then you have the math skills to know that what you have just said is false - which would make you a liar.

Four Options here:

1. You make well into the 7 figures
2. You do not have the scientific background you claim
3. You do not pay the effective FIT rate you claim
4. The CBO, the IRS, the Tax Foundation, and everyone else who has ever looked at federal tax rates all can't do math.

I make 7 figures and I don't pay an effective federal income tax of 33%-more like 23%. She must be counting federal income, FICA etc as well, She is fibbing

Well ...do you want join us in the loft for the verification. JD are easy to verify ... are you ready to do ...as i am to a trusted source like vauge including the likelihood your income is in the millions?

To the loft with vauge if he agrees for verification?



yes, I thought so, you don't know the difference between an effective rate and a marginal rate

I certainly do ... I simply stated I paid 33z% income in federal taxes and not to boast of personal income by any stretch yet in context to the wealthiest and those who pay little or no taxes ... or who like Romney ...pay 13% on a small part of his income. I was making a point.
 
Well ...do you want join us in the loft for the verification. JD are easy to verify ... are you ready to do ...as i am to a trusted source like vauge including the likelihood your income is in the millions?

To the loft with vauge if he agrees for verification?





I certainly do ... I simply stated I paid 33z% income in federal taxes and not to boast of personal income by any stretch yet in context to the wealthiest and those who pay little or no taxes ... or who like Romney ...pay 13% on a small part of his income. I was making a point.

I know you did not pay an effective rate of 33%. the top marginal rate is 35%. Do the math, its impossible for someone to pay an effective rate of 33% unless they have millions upon millions of earned income.

you don't hit 35% until you are making around 388K and to hit the 33% you have to be making at least 178K

so even if you make 400K a year, only 12K would be taxed at 35% and only income over 178K would be taxed at 33% or higher

thus there is no way you are paying a 33% effective federal income tax

(and my numbers assume absolutely no deductions, no mortgage interest, no charitable contributions) etc
 
I know you did not pay an effective rate of 33%. the top marginal rate is 35%. Do the math, its impossible for someone to pay an effective rate of 33% unless they have millions upon millions of earned income.

you don't hit 35% until you are making around 388K and to hit the 33% you have to be making at least 178K

so even if you make say 400K a year, only 12K would be taxed at 35% and only income over 178K would be taxed at 33% or higher

thus there is no way you are paying a 33% effective federal income tax

(and my numbers assume absolutely no deductions, no mortgage interest, no charitable contributions) etc

I did not say an effective rate and I certainly know very we'll the difference. I stated I pay 33% of income in federal taxes. I have a salary from a FT professional position and a private consulting business.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7185202_federal-include-social-security-medicare_.html


My marginal rate is higher than 33%.

Now, I was challenged to prove my degree and I agreed with vauge as verifier as I trust him for confidential data. Turtledude ... Are you willing to do the same with your JD? You are quick to make allegations I am lying and CPWill wants numbers and proof of a degree.

I am also willing to explain my 3 sources of income and no! unlike you claim ...I definitely do not earn millions. Can you back up your claims of having a JD and earning millions? I have no problems verifying with my statements.

I pay quarterly taxes and I know exactly what I am paying and on what income.

TD ... you have been boasting of millions and a JD for years ... I was called a liar based on my modest 6 figure salary and licensure that can easily be verified. Are you willing to have vauge verify your JD. That only takes a moment ... just as my license only takes a moment to verify!

Lets go ... I am awaiting the original challenger who offered an apology ... if instead we make a donation to DP if I can verify? Are you up for the same challenge?

Seriously ... if you want to call liar and I am willing ... are you?

CPwill and Turtledude proof? ...with a donation to DP for the one who is determined dishonest?
 
Last edited:
I did not say an effective rate and I certainly know very we'll the difference. I stated I pay 33% of income in federal taxes. I have a salary from a FT professional position and a private consulting business.

Does Federal Tax Include Social Security & Medicare? | eHow.com


My marginal rate is higher than 33%.

Now, I was challenged to prove my degree and I agreed with vauge as verifier as I trust him for confidential data. Turtledude ... Are you willing to do the same with your JD? You are quick to make allegations I am lying and CPWill wants numbers and proof of a degree.

I am also willing to explain my 3 sources of income and no! unlike you claim ...I definitely do not earn millions. Can you back up your claims of having a JD and earning millions? I have no problems verifying with my statements.

I pay quarterly taxes and I know exactly what I am paying and on what income.

TD ... you have been boasting of millions and a JD for years ... I was called a liar based on my modest 6 figure salary and licensure that can easily be verified. Are you willing to have vauge verify your JD. That only takes a moment ... just as my license only takes a moment to verify!

Lets go ... I am awaiting the original challenger who offered an apology ... if instead we make a donation to DP if I can verify? Are you up for the same challenge?

Seriously ... if you want to call liar and I am willing ... are you?

CPwill and Turtledude proof? ...with a donation to DP for the one who is determined dishonest?

If you have a consulting job on the side and are paying a 33% rate, then you are doing it wrong.
Hire an accountant and learn what deductions you have.
 
If you have a consulting job on the side and are paying a 33% rate, then you are doing it wrong.
Hire an accountant and learn what deductions you have.

she is lying or mistaken or just ignorant.

to pay an effective rate of 33% you have to have an earned income of at least several hundred thousand dollars.

she is probably combining FICA which is not the federal income tax in order to make that claim.

what is really funny is that we have some left leaners on this board who pretend to be experts in tax issues and they never seem to post when liberals make clearly wrong claims about the taxes.
 
Oh btw I don't need anyone to verify that I have a law degree etc. One poster on this board knew me as a coach in a sport his son was a national champion in. Another poster-also an attorney in Ohio, knows me due to conversations we have had in PMS. And CC knows I am telling the truth as well since the first guy I mentioned-among others-have confirmed what I have said.
 
Umemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 7.8%
The stock market has almost doubled.
5 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.
GDP has been growing since 2009.
Americans net worth is up $10 trillion dollars since 2009.
Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.
Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.
Millions are able to buy private healthcare policies and millions have the security they will not be dropped in the event of a preexisting condition.
The US needs to continue climbing its way out and I like the contrast from 2008 when the economy crashed.
Romney has all the same people lined up as advisors as BuCheney when they spent on war profiteering and cut taxes on the wealthy and gave a windfall of billions to BigPharma that we could not afford.

Do we need to get better ... yes.

Obama-Biden 2012 Forward

lolz Obama's Record. Ya I can go on and on from that list, but realistically not a single republican will listen. Hoping for 1-2% independents, that'll shut the 47% up.
 
Oh btw I don't need anyone to verify that I have a law degree etc. One poster on this board knew me as a coach in a sport his son was a national champion in. Another poster-also an attorney in Ohio, knows me due to conversations we have had in PMS. And CC knows I am telling the truth as well since the first guy I mentioned-among others-have confirmed what I have said.

Even people with good jobs can be blind to the truth, especially when it comes to religion and politics.
 
Even people with good jobs can be blind to the truth, especially when it comes to religion and politics.

That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Perhaps you were thinking of someone else's post and copied mine by mistake?
 
she is lying or mistaken or just ignorant.

to pay an effective rate of 33% you have to have an earned income of at least several hundred thousand dollars.

she is probably combining FICA which is not the federal income tax in order to make that claim.

what is really funny is that we have some left leaners on this board who pretend to be experts in tax issues and they never seem to post when liberals make clearly wrong claims about the taxes.

Maybe it's counting total tax, including state? Ryan talked about almost 50% tax on small business. Even with state, sales, pre-Bush taxes, and zero deductions that number is still a lie. Oh, not to mention capital gains is 15%.
 
Is it possible that Dion is confusing tax witholdings with actual total taxes owed?
 
Great, so if you think times are good, vote for Obama. If you think things should be better, vote for Romney.

I'll take that trade-off.

False reasoning, it implies if things aren't as good as they should be Romney would've made them better. With his record of greed and shortsightedness in Baine I find that hard to believe.

Bottom line is simple you have two choices Obama's policies and Bushes, don't even pretend Romney's brought anything really new to the Republican ballot. Record shows Bush/Romney's policies are terrible in the long run and Obama's are better. Growing slow is better than collapsing. Truth is simple, for today's world Democrat's ideology and policies might not be perfect, but the Republican set of values and policies are a disaster. For Republicans, come back next time with fresh new ideas and a new set of values, don't tweak, change. If it is logically better than the Democrat's platform they'll get to run the country.
 
Maybe it's counting total tax, including state? Ryan talked about almost 50% tax on small business. Even with state, sales, pre-Bush taxes, and zero deductions that number is still a lie. Oh, not to mention capital gains is 15%.
You might be right but given that has been explained to her several times and she continues to make the same claim I have to believe she hasn't a clue.

and yes some people can pay a total tax bill near 50% if they live in a state with its own high income tax

and if you figure death taxes into the mix some people will have paid 50% or more total taxes over the course of a lifetime
 
False reasoning, it implies if things aren't as good as they should be Romney would've made them better. With his record of greed and shortsightedness in Baine I find that hard to believe.

Bottom line is simple you have two choices Obama's policies and Bushes, don't even pretend Romney's brought anything really new to the Republican ballot. Record shows Bush/Romney's policies are terrible in the long run and Obama's are better. Growing slow is better than collapsing. Truth is simple, for today's world Democrat's ideology and policies might not be perfect, but the Republican set of values and policies are a disaster. For Republicans, come back next time with fresh new ideas and a new set of values, don't tweak, change. If it is logically better than the Democrat's platform they'll get to run the country.

were you even voting when Bush was in office? what experience did you have as say a business owner, a manager or a taxpayer under Bush? That is as moronic a statement as saying its a choice between Romney and carter. In reality we have a guy who is a proven success in most everything he has done competing against a guy who didn't do much of anything notable before he became president and then has been a failure at that
 
Obama could be doing better but I'm satisfied with what he's done.
 
Obama could be doing better but I'm satisfied with what he's done.

really-so tell us on what issues you find him satisfactory and what 3-4 issues mater most to you.

I see him as incompetent
 
Umemployment has dropped from 10.2% to 7.8%
The stock market has almost doubled.
5 million private sector jobs have been created since 2009.
GDP has been growing since 2009.
Americans net worth is up $10 trillion dollars since 2009.
Auto sales are up. Retail sales are up. Home sales are up.
Bin Laden is dead, and GM is alive.
Millions are able to buy private healthcare policies and millions have the security they will not be dropped in the event of a preexisting condition.
The US needs to continue climbing its way out and I like the contrast from 2008 when the economy crashed.
Romney has all the same people lined up as advisors as BuCheney when they spent on war profiteering and cut taxes on the wealthy and gave a windfall of billions to BigPharma that we could not afford.

Do we need to get better ... yes.

Obama-Biden 2012 Forward

Wow, Stalin era brainwashing at it's best - ignore reality and believe what you're spoon-fed.

Yeah, keep on ignoring reality and believing in loony-bin nonsense because it's all part of your "culture club."
 
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