Oh Flori-duh!

[NotreDame]

Not my Governor. I live in a different state, but deSantis showed the way. That's because Florida paid attention to the science and New York didn't. There is a reason New York's deaths per million is almost three times what Florida's is, in spite of Florida have more at risk population.

The basic fear, initially, was that the medical resources could have been swamped by a massive outbreak. We now know that the virus is both more infectious but less virulent than originally thought. With our current knowledge, we should treat it like we treat other serious but not catastrophic threats, eg H1N1.

Really? So, “paid attention to the science” produces over 14,000 dead, and over 600,000 positive cases? Really? No way!

Following the science produces numbers like those in South Korea, Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Canada,

No, Florida didn’t follow the science, those numbers are a product of not adhering to the science.

DeSantis “showed the way” to over 14,000 dead and over 600,000 positive cases, not worth emulating.

There is a reason New York's deaths per million is almost three times what Florida's is, in spite of Florida have more at risk population.

Yes, but the cause for the different outcome wasn’t Florida following any science. The different numbers are attributable to the fact Florida and NY are not identical enough for comparison. Specifically, NYC, as a result of several factors, was said to be “uniquely suited” to spread the virus rapidly. There’s been much ink spilled by epidemiologists, virologists, and others as to the factors in NYC that facilitated its rapid spread.

Florida and other states benefited from a lack of those same factors, which helps explain the difference. Florida’s largest city, Jacksonville, is an 8th the size is NYC, and spread out over 875 square miles, three times as much as NYC. NYC dwarfs any city in Florida in terms of urban density and the number of international and domestic travelers.

It’s been asserted, with evidence, NY, specifically NYC, seeded many other parts of the country, made possible by its unique factors that spread the virus wildly in NYC. Serological tests show the virus was spreading widely in NYC in February. As a result, NYC saw rapid daily spikes in numbers early on, while many other states it was delayed, Florida being one of them.

By the time Florida experiences its surging numbers, they have the benefit of the nation and world having treated the virus for 5 months. There were treatment mechanisms and therapeutics that didn’t exist when NYC was hit.

So, no, Florida has lower numbers in relation to NY because of other causes and factors, but not because they (Florida) followed the science.


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[Chomsky]

Well, I think already know how good we are at this Team Sport, I just never thought we would be this bad, Meh....

We're only as good as our leadership. It's that simple. That's why I'm voting for a change.

 

[Chomsky]

Really? So, “paid attention to the science” produces over 14,000 dead, and over 600,000 positive cases? Really? No way!

Following the science produces numbers like those in South Korea, Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Canada,

No, Florida didn’t follow the science, those numbers are a product of not adhering to the science.

DeSantis “showed the way” to over 14,000 dead and over 600,000 positive cases, not worth emulating.



Yes, but the cause for the different outcome wasn’t Florida following any science. The different numbers are attributable to the fact Florida and NY are not identical enough for comparison. Specifically, NYC, as a result of several factors, was said to be “uniquely suited” to spread the virus rapidly. There’s been much ink spilled by epidemiologists, virologists, and others as to the factors in NYC that facilitated its rapid spread.

Florida and other states benefited from a lack of those same factors, which helps explain the difference. Florida’s largest city, Jacksonville, is an 8th the size is NYC, and spread out over 875 square miles, three times as much as NYC. NYC dwarfs any city in Florida in terms of urban density and the number of international and domestic travelers.

It’s been asserted, with evidence, NY, specifically NYC, seeded many other parts of the country, made possible by its unique factors that spread the virus wildly in NYC. Serological tests show the virus was spreading widely in NYC in February. As a result, NYC saw rapid daily spikes in numbers early on, while many other states it was delayed, Florida being one of them.

By the time Florida experiences its surging numbers, they have the benefit of the nation and world having treated the virus for 5 months. There were treatment mechanisms and therapeutics that didn’t exist when NYC was hit.

So, no, Florida has lower numbers in relation to NY because of other causes and factors, but not because they (Florida) followed the science.


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If DeSantis was faced with Cuomo's challenge, I can't imagine how many would have been lost.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The Bronx is spiking and they are reopening?

Kinda two faced isn't it?

I don't recall hearing about spikes in the Bronx; if I remember correctly the spikes are in some Brooklyn and Queens neighborhoods. I suspect the city will change course if the need arises; there have been some changes and delays to reopening plans based on spikes. Here in NJ Gov. Murphy tightened restrictions early in the summer season when there was a small uptick.

 

[Jay59]

New York got hit early, hard, and heavy, as the federal government left us unawares. but since the early initial wave, New York's response has been exemplary. Pretty much the best in the states, and the premier model on how to deal with this stuff.

The federal government did not leave you unawares. The Governor and the Mayor chose to disregard what they were told until the first results of their stupidity were already upon them. Mayor deBlasio was telling people it was not easily translated until mid March. Governor Cuomo's disastrous order to clear all cases from hospitals was 25 March, long after it was known that the elderly were particularly susceptible. By then, Governor deSantis had already drawn a perimeter around his elderly care units. In Contrast, the COVID task force was formed 27 January, headed by the VP and the now famous Dr Fauci. That's two months of information that Mark Cuomo ignored.

Absolutely not! Covid is turning-out to be far more lethal!

Less lethal. it is now widely believed that over 15% and as many as 25% of the population have recovered from COVID, many never knowing they had it.

If DeSantis was faced with Cuomo's challenge, I can't imagine how many would have been lost.

It's the other way around. Imagine if Cuomo had been faced with de Santis' challenges. Florida has significantly more 60+ population. but deSantis was not telling everyone it was safe to mingle well into March. Cuomo and deBlasio were doing that.

 

[Chomsky]

The federal government did not leave you unawares. The Governor and the Mayor chose to disregard what they were told until the first results of their stupidity were already upon them. Mayor deBlasio was telling people it was not easily translated until mid March. Governor Cuomo's disastrous order to clear all cases from hospitals was 25 March, long after it was known that the elderly were particularly susceptible. By then, Governor deSantis had already drawn a perimeter around his elderly care units. In Contrast, the COVID task force was formed 27 January, headed by the VP and the now famous Dr Fauci. That's two months of information that Mark Cuomo ignored.

The administration did nothing to identify the threat & keep it out, particularly from Europe.

Despite Cuomo's earlier poor decision back in March, it's all that happened since then that's the problem. The Red states are literally killing their citizens, as can be seen by FL's daily death rate.

 

[US&THEM]

The administration did nothing to identify the threat & keep it out, particularly from Europe.

Despite Cuomo's earlier poor decision back in March, it's all that happened since then that's the problem. The Red states are literally killing their citizens, as can be seen by FL's daily death rate.

NYC and NJ had to learn as they go as for the treatment etc. Florida and the other states had “best practices” and still didn’t care.

 

[Artymoon]

I very much agree.

The difficult part with this is we are seeing such high numbers while strongly mitigating! That's the amazing part.

Yes, it's certainly difficult to see. But regardless of mitigation attempts it its inevitable. It has been slowed only to regain ground and slow again. The people we seek to protect will eventually be exposed. There is no way around that unless we isolate them for the rest of their lives.

 

[Chomsky]

NYC and NJ had to learn as they go as for the treatment etc. Florida and the other states had “best practices” and still didn’t care.

Exactly!

 

[Jay59]

Really? So, “paid attention to the science” produces over 14,000 dead, and over 600,000 positive cases? Really? No way!

Don't ask me. Follow the numbers, which say that Florida did well.

Following the science produces numbers like those in South Korea, Ice Land, Japan, Taiwan, Canada,

Was there a point here. South Korea and Taiwan treated the virus as a biological attack. Even Florida did not go to that extreme. Japan was more successful in following the same science.

No, Florida didn’t follow the science, those numbers are a product of not adhering to the science.

Except that they are.

DeSantis “showed the way” to over 14,000 dead and over 600,000 positive cases, not worth emulating.

That's a very good ratio to emulate, especially with the number of elderly in Florida.

Yes, but the cause for the different outcome wasn’t Florida following any science. The different numbers are attributable to the fact Florida and NY are not identical enough for comparison. Specifically, NYC, as a result of several factors, was said to be “uniquely suited” to spread the virus rapidly. There’s been much ink spilled by epidemiologists, virologists, and others as to the factors in NYC that facilitated its rapid spread.

Now the BS factor increases.

Florida and other states benefited from a lack of those same factors, which helps explain the difference. Florida’s largest city, Jacksonville, is an 8th the size is NYC, and spread out over 875 square miles, three times as much as NYC. NYC dwarfs any city in Florida in terms of urban density and the number of international and domestic travelers.

Except that Florida has more elderly to protect and a more car mobile population. Try to keep your facts straight when you are BSing.

It’s been asserted, with evidence, NY, specifically NYC, seeded many other parts of the country, made possible by its unique factors that spread the virus wildly in NYC. Serological tests show the virus was spreading widely in NYC in February. As a result, NYC saw rapid daily spikes in numbers early on, while many other states it was delayed, Florida being one of them.

It is certainly true that NYC had a unique factor. They ordered COVID patients into senior care facilities. Well, not unique. Uncommon.
By the time Florida experiences its surging numbers, they have the benefit of the nation and world having treated the virus for 5 months. There were treatment mechanisms and therapeutics that didn’t exist when NYC was hit.

So, no, Florida has lower numbers in relation to NY because of other causes and factors, but not because they (Florida) followed the science.

Next time bring facts. Your BS stinks.

 

[US&THEM]

Don't ask me. Follow the numbers, which say that Florida did well.


Was there a point here. South Korea and Taiwan treated the virus as a biological attack. Even Florida did not go to that extreme. Japan was more successful in following the same science.


It is certainly true that NYC had a unique factor. They ordered COVID patients into senior care facilities. Well, not unique. Uncommon.
By the time Florida experiences its surging numbers, they have the benefit of the nation and world having treated the virus for 5 months. There were treatment mechanisms and therapeutics that didn’t exist when NYC was hit.


Next time bring facts. Your BS stinks.

it has been well established Covid kills older persons, watch places like the Villages, deaths will triple but they will make sure none will be tested.

 

[eohrnberger]

If DeSantis was faced with Cuomo's challenge, I can't imagine how many would have been lost.

Just curious, but what 'challenge(s)' did Cuomo face which forced him to issue the EO forcing COVID infected elderly into elderly care facilities that were ill-equipped to properly care for them, and properly isolate them from infecting non-infected elderly, while COVID field hospitals went essentially unused, or at least severely underutilized?

 

[Jay59]

it has been well established Covid kills older persons, watch places like the Villages, deaths will triple but they will make sure none will be tested.

Yet, you get the insanity of the executive order sending active COVID cases into a virgin field.

Just curious, but what 'challenge(s)' did Cuomo face which forced him to issue the EO forcing COVID infected elderly into elderly care facilities that were ill-equipped to properly care for them, and properly isolate them from infecting non-infected elderly, while COVID field hospitals went essentially unused, or at least severely underutilized?

The answer is none. Coumo's priorities were upside down.

 

[US&THEM]

Yet, you get the insanity of the executive order sending active COVID cases into a virgin field.


The answer is none. Coumo's priorities were upside down.

But it is just like the flu

 

[Chomsky]

Yes, it's certainly difficult to see. But regardless of mitigation attempts it its inevitable. It has been slowed only to regain ground and slow again. The people we seek to protect will eventually be exposed. There is no way around that unless we isolate them for the rest of their lives.

Well, I get what you're saying - but only too a (reasonable) point. For instance, herd immunity is believed to take place at around 70%. So, there's plenty of room in the 30% that's unaffected - and I fully intend to be in that 30%! I'm serious, here.

But more ikely than not, we will get to herd immunity by some combination of infected, vaccinated, and those of us that are naturally immune (believed to be through prior non-Covid coronavirus exposure). The only calculus is how do we get there, and over what time-frame? Seriously, that's it. How much are we willing to suffer as a society in order to save what quantity of sickness & death?

But I will point-out even with only 70% herd immunity, if effective, there is no need to isolate the vulnerable "forever". The whole idea of herd immunity is the virus levels decrease to where we can function as a normal unmitigated society. At herd immunity the virus may be present in our society, but it will be at such low and sporadic levels that we shouldn't have to worry about it in general, only needing to address it in specific instances. There's a big difference between 'societal (herd) immunity' and 'eradication'. We don't need to necessarily eradicate it.

 

[newpublius]

Florida has done a stellar job with the pandemic. Compare the results to, say, New York which has a similar population.

Why are you picking nits?

Indeed, I mean, the lockdowns must end. It actually isn't sustainable. You can't shut down, print trillions of dollars, throw 20mn people out of work and expect that to work. Its not going to work.

It really isn't an option.

If you feel the risks are too great, fine, stay home.

The rest of us have lives to lead, children to raise and money to make.

 

[newpublius]

But it is just like the flu

But they note that its worse than the flu, about 10X worse, so it would seem we should have 10X the response that we would have to the flu we see every year. Yes, respond proportionately.

 

[Puigb]

I live in Florida.

Make no mistake, this decision was Trump's. DeSantis has no say in the matter, Trump controls his actions fully.

Florida is now Trump's new "home state", and he knows he desperately needs the state to win in November, or he will undoubtedly lose to Biden.

Ironically, Trump/DeSantis have made things even worse for the tourism industry with this move...but they only see a short term gain, and don't care about the long term.

 

[US&THEM]

But they note that its worse than the flu, about 10X worse, so it would seem we should have 10X the response that we would have to the flu we see every year. Yes, respond proportionately.

Have to be able to accept science, right?

 

[Puigb]

Why did the people elect DeSantis? It seems to be a bad decision. I hope he is not re-elected

Gillium the Democratic candidate was plagued by scandals. And despite that, the margin was so razor thin they had to do a a recount

 

[newpublius]

Have to be able to accept science, right?

One needn't deny the danger of the virus to suggest a lockdown is wrong.

 

[Artymoon]

It is irrelevant if they do not. And it is inaccurate to say there’s no point in which to end a shutdown. I’ve yet to read or hear anyone advocate for a perpetual shutdown or a shutdown with no measurement of when and how to end the shutdown.

A positivity rate of less than 5% for, IIRC, 14 days, with a phased in reopening, and mandates for masks, social distancing, expansive testing, and enforcement, is a very wise point to end a shutdown.

The problem is too many to governors have refused to resort to any sense of tenacity in achieving those points and instead hastily reopen, while mind numbingly refusing mask mandates and enforcement.

The factors to safely reopen isn’t some arcane knowledge. The factors to safely reopen isn’t esoteric, known only to a few god-like people huddled away from the rest of humanity in a temple. Simply, governors, the president, and people have been incorrigible, recalcitrant, and resilient to the measures needed to safely reopen.


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I hear ya but what happens when we hit that threshold of less than 5%? When we open up the virus is still here and cases will likely increase again. Are we forever to be wearing masks, see half-filled seating in restaurants to accommodate social distancing?

Well, I get what you're saying - but only too a (reasonable) point. For instance, herd immunity is believed to take place at around 70%. So, there's plenty of room in the 30% that's unaffected - and I fully intend to be in that 30%! I'm serious, here.

But more ikely than not, we will get to herd immunity by some combination of infected, vaccinated, and those of us that are naturally immune (believed to be through prior non-Covid coronavirus exposure). The only calculus is how do we get there, and over what time-frame? Seriously, that's it. How much are we willing to suffer as a society in order to save what quantity of sickness & death?

But I will point-out even with only 70% herd immunity, if effective, there is no need to isolate the vulnerable "forever". The whole idea of herd immunity is the virus levels decrease to where we can function as a normal unmitigated society. At herd immunity the virus may be present in our society, but it will be at such low and sporadic levels that we shouldn't have to worry about it in general, only needing to address it in specific instances. There's a big difference between 'societal (herd) immunity' and 'eradication'. We don't need to necessarily eradicate it.

Exactly. Herd immunity is what must, and will take place. The timeframe is what has become the political football. As I’ve stated previously, the election will have a profound effect on that front.

 

[Puigb]

I hear ya but what happens when we hit that threshold of less than 5%? When we open up the virus is still here and cases will likely increase again. Are we forever to be wearing masks, see half-filled seating in restaurants to accommodate social distancing?


Exactly. Herd immunity is what must, and will take place. The timeframe is what has become the political football. As I’ve stated previously, the election will have a profound effect on that front.

Doubtful, but I know your Republican masters have pounded this talking point into your brains.

 

[newpublius]

I hear ya but what happens when we hit that threshold of less than 5%? When we open up the virus is still here and cases will likely increase again. Are we forever to be wearing masks, see half-filled seating in restaurants to accommodate social distancing?


Exactly. Herd immunity is what must, and will take place. The timeframe is what has become the political football. As I’ve stated previously, the election will have a profound effect on that front.

A vaccine is imminent.

Here's the thing, if the vaccine doesn't work, we really don't have a choice then, we're just going to have to run the gauntlet.

I'm not interested in mere existence and I'm actually at an age where I actually would rather get it now than wait to get it any older.

I can't give this any more of my finite time on this earth. If I die, and I'm not ignoring that possibility, then I die.

 

[US&THEM]

One needn't deny the danger of the virus to suggest a lockdown is wrong.

What about our ally Israel? Lockdown #2 happening right now.

Coronavirus: Israel tightens second lockdown amid acrimony

But plans to limit gatherings are held up, with some seeing it as a ruse to curb anti-PM protests.

www.bbc.com