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Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Teams

Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
You are lying. In my original post, I said nothing about any community
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The people receiving this service are the people providing it. That's the purpose of a local volunteer firefighter. The freeloaders you are attacking are the community.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
"Significant" is a matter of opinion.
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For the sake of this discussion, let's define "significant" as a percent of individuals greater than 10 but less than 50.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

cpwill said:
The people receiving this service are the people providing it.
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I said nothing about the people providing it. Please stop lying about what I said.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
Let's not
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Okay. Allow me to accept any definition you are willing to provide.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
For the reason that I have no reason to provide such a definition
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I fear we have digressed. I am searching for a fact we can agree on and work forwards from. Would you agree that there is an unspecified number of "freeloaders" within these communities served by volunteer firemen?
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

CycloneWanderer said:
I fear we have digressed. I am searching for a fact we can agree on and work forwards from. Would you agree that there is an unspecified number of "freeloaders" within these communities served by volunteer firemen?
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I don't believe you. I believe you are fishing for a statement you can refute.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
I don't believe you. I believe you are fishing for a statement you can refute.
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That's unfortunate and I assure you I mean what I said. At risk of further digression, I find it interesting that the moment I state my intention you seek to refute it. One discovery of psychology is that we vastly overestimate how similar others are to us; that how others think and react is similar to our own thoughts and reactions. A part of me wonders if I am observing evidence of the heuristic manifesting in this dialogue between us; that perhaps you believe I am fishing for a statement to refute because that is exactly how you would react. In any case, that's neither here nor there.

Do you believe there are freeloading individuals in the community served by the volunteer firefighters?
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

CycloneWanderer said:
That's unfortunate and I assure you I mean what I said. At risk of further digression, I find it interesting that the moment I state my intention you seek to refute it. One discovery of psychology is that we vastly overestimate how similar others are to us; that how others think and react is similar to our own thoughts and reactions. A part of me wonders if I am observing evidence of the heuristic manifesting in this dialogue between us; that perhaps you believe I am fishing for a statement to refute because that is exactly how you would react. In any case, that's neither here nor there.

Do you believe there are freeloading individuals in the community served by the volunteer firefighters?
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I believe my original statement was clear enough to be understood by someone with the intelligence to use the word "heuristic" properly

BTW, you never did say if you believe that there are freeloading individuals in the communities served by volunteer firefighters
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

Summerwind said:
Prove that they exist in such a way that ACA even effects these station. Til you do that, it's a moot point, since ACA won't be effecting them.
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Do you think it won't have an impact on this fire department? They have 300 volunteers. I suppose they could just break up the districts, but why, if not for the ACA, would they do that?

Cy-Fair Volunteer Fire Department - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
I've seen no proof that even one volunteer fire dept will be affected
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You folks are deperate to the max to defend obamacare...lol!
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
I believe my original statement was clear enough to be understood by someone with the intelligence to use the word "heuristic" properly

BTW, you never did say if you believe that there are freeloading individuals in the communities served by volunteer firefighters
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I don't think there is any doubt there are at least a handful of freeloading individuals, regardless the definition, within communities served by volunteer firefighters (I just wanted to clarify your meaning). I also think the firefighters are intelligent enough know that when they choose to volunteer.

I am all for recognizing volunteer firemen, they do some amazing work. I just believe that mandating benefits they don't need while burdening those they seek to serve is disrespectful to their commitment. It tarnishes the term "volunteer" which is a great source of pride among these men and women.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

CycloneWanderer said:
I don't think there is any doubt there are at least a handful of freeloading individuals, regardless the definition, within communities served by volunteer firefighters (I just wanted to clarify your meaning). I also think the firefighters are intelligent enough know that when they choose to volunteer.
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If those freeloaders exist, and ACA forces them to pay a share of the volunteers health insurance, then the possibility I referred to exists.

sangha said:
It's possible that the effect will be that the freeloaders in PA will have to actually *gasp* pay for the services they use instead of relying on the charity of others.
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I am all for recognizing volunteer firemen, they do some amazing work. I just believe that mandating benefits they don't need while burdening those they seek to serve is disrespectful to their commitment. It tarnishes the term "volunteer" which is a great source of pride among these men and women.
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I believe that everyone needs health insurance.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
I've seen no proof that even one volunteer fire dept will be affected
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That would depend on how the rules are interpreted, and by whom, would it not? Besides, Summer asked for a dept with 50 volunteers. At least, I think that's what she asked for.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

FederalRepublic said:
That would depend on how the rules are interpreted, and by whom, would it not? Besides, Summer asked for a dept with 50 volunteers. At least, I think that's what she asked for.
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You asked if this would affect any volunteer fire depts. I've seen no proof that even one volunteer fire dept will be affected so why should I think it will affect any volunteer fire depts?
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
If those freeloaders exist, and ACA forces them to pay a share of the volunteers health insurance, then the possibility I referred to exists.

I believe that everyone needs health insurance.
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The problem with forcing freeloaders to pay is it extends that burden to the people who aren't freeloading. Volunteer firemen do have day jobs and have access to worker's comp for any injury taking place as a result of their voluntary duties. Why require more than that when it will burden those the firemen are trying to serve?
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

CycloneWanderer said:
The problem with forcing freeloaders to pay is it extends that burden to the people who aren't freeloading. Volunteer firemen do have day jobs and have access to worker's comp for any injury taking place as a result of their voluntary duties. Why require more than that when it will burden those the firemen are trying to serve?
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People who aren't freeloaders will have no problem providing their share of support for the volunteers.

And I have seen no evidence that anything more is required of volunteer firemen by ACA than anyone else is required to do.
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
People who aren't freeloaders will have no problem providing their share of support for the volunteers.

And I have seen no evidence that anything more is required of volunteer firemen by ACA than anyone else is required to do.
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It's not the firemen that are impacted, it is the fire departments. Volunteer firemen already have day jobs in most cases where they will be getting insurance. There probably won't be many people buying health insurance through the fire department anyways so the department will probably elect to pay the fine if forced to. How would you feel about forcing your neighbors (some of whom are struggling to pay for their own insurance) to pay for the fine of the fire department for not offering health insurance when there is no logical need for them to?
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

CycloneWanderer said:
It's not the firemen that are impacted, it is the fire departments. Volunteer firemen already have day jobs in most cases where they will be getting insurance. There probably won't be many people buying health insurance through the fire department anyways so the department will probably elect to pay the fine if forced to. How would you feel about forcing your neighbors (some of whom are struggling to pay for their own insurance) to pay for the fine of the fire department for not offering health insurance when there is no logical need for them to?
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I have seen no proof that there will be any impact whatsoever on any volunteer fire dept.

So as far as having the tax dollars of my neighbors and I go towards providing health insurance for some volunteers, I don't see it happening.

And if it does, I'm OK with it
 
Re: Obamacare Also Apparently Is Going To Start Effecting Fire Emergency Response Tea

sangha said:
I have seen no proof that there will be any impact whatsoever on any volunteer fire dept...
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So you basically believe the IAFC's concerns in the OP are baseless? If so then why hasn't the IRS ruled on their question?
 
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